Sophia

Okay, I have no answers to this one, but some observations of where I am in my thought processes so far: 1. I have yet to read any explanation of theodicy that makes sense to me in light of my own reason/experiences. 2. The entire Adam/Eve myth is problematic for me because why on earth would God place the tree of Knowledge (or Good and Evil) there in the first place? What was it's intended purpose?? 3. If we are truly made in God's image, then does that mean that God has an evil side as well? I know these may seem simplisitic questions, and I continue to glean from all those here are so far ahead of me. I have been steeped/trained in evangelical Christianity for so long, that I have much catching up to do!

Lisa, I live in a heavily military town and many of the people I love and worship among are military families. While I always gently explain my pacifist/liberation views, there are pastoral concerns that are important as well. I think that the Bush adminstration pulled off a media coup by declaring all dissenters as un-patriotic, un-American or whatever. It didn't take the churches long to translate that into un-Christian, at least in my area. So sad..since we had a wonderful opportunity to show the world a better way.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that we are not progressing at all. In fact, we (the Christian Church) may have been off track totally from, say, the Conversion of Constantine or even before. Sort of like taking a trip and realizing you are going the wrong direction. The only way to progress may be to totally back track and start over!

Rev. and Mrs. Heretic, there was so much about this entire post that touched me as it reflects my own struggles. I recently discontinued my candidacy in the UMC yet still feel this strong calling to ordained ministry. I live in the Jacksonville, FL area and am desperately seeking a community of like-minded people. THis is a very theologically conservative area. I currently worship in a UM church where the pastors are more progressive, but the congregation at large is very conservative. My family and I have recently transferred to this church because the latest appointment at our former church instituted so many oppressive church practices that I couldn't even breathe! The District Superintendent and Bishop were no help, so it made me question the entire system. So your comment about the itineracy system is right on the mark! We must somehow come together and reclaim/proclaim the Gospel! I'm willing to do whatever it takes to offer an alternative to those in my Jerusalem. I'm all for starting our own churches as I see no point in trying to reform the current ones. I'm praying for the fresh wind of the Spirit to blow through his Bride!

Interestingly, the lay members on the committee were more in line with your "Western traditional" interpretation, BrotherRog. They all affirmed that Jesus was the Christ before incarnation. The clergy, however, were more inclined to name the Baptism in the Jordon as the moment. While I agree with Fatherman that we may never know the answer, and I suppose some might think it a moot point, I think it is a fascinating question!

Fatherman, This was very interesting. In my District Committee on Ordination interview I was asked, "At what point did I think Jesus became the Christ of God?" I think I answered that I hadn't really pondered that question but I could point to some probables, i.e. incarnation, baptism in the Jordan, wilderness tempting, Garden of Gethsemane. I'm thinking now that perhaps it was all of these experiences somehow cumulatively. What are your thoughts? Sophia

Cat, I completely understand your frustration with much of the application of scripture in the Christian Church. I suppose it is this frustration that led me here to this website/movement. The Bible, for me, is not a rule book, per se. When I finally sat down and read it straight through, cover to cover, the overwhelming theme for me was that Jesus Christ was/is the true revelation of God. Through these pages I meet the historical person who embodied the divine completely. Believe me, as a woman who is married for the second time who recently completed the ordination candidacy program in the UMC, I have had to come to terms with many "literal" readings. Once I could let go of the "the Bible says this or that" I think it freed me to seek a higher truth--and I'm still seeking. Thanks for your thoughtful questions!