Gnosteric

I could not find a Gnostic cross when I went looking for mine. I had to have my jeweller make it for me and it broke the bank. I wanted to make sure I got the perfect circle and not the oval of the Ankh cross. I wear it proudly.

Would your jeweller make another one (or two)? My bank aint' that big, though. I've been looking for one ever since spying it on the Gospel of Judas. I, too, would like to wear it proudly.

Do you consider yourself a Sethian Gnostic?

Eric

Both of us seem to be caught between the likes of the UCC and UU.

Not just the both of you. You would have enough company to make some noise......enough to make some music and be awed by some silence, enough to be challenged by some thoughtful theological discussion and elevated by some mystical sacrament. Enough to get me out of bed every Sunday morning.

For me, much better than alternating my Sundays between the two. Hmmmm, let's see, odd weeks must be UU & even weeks mean UCC.

I was just kidding though.

As was I (mostly anyway......not sure what I'd have done if you called me on it ) My point being that it is not real difficult to start a new denomination these days. The law allows for as little as three people to form an independent religious organization. Set up an inexpensive website and presto a denomination is born. Now, making it grow is like the Demiurge trying to bring that first human to life…..needs a little help from the Spirit. I am hopefully waiting for someone (else) to do it.

OTOH, I also think deeper mystism is missing in most protestant churches

Yes, and until they figure out a way to include it the numbers will continue to decline.

Hey, United Mystical Church of Christ. Now there's an idea!!! :-)

Where can I sign up??

--des

des, wasn't that what you were getting at with your previous post? I have always thought of mysticism as, somehow, being inherently progressive. The mystics have also always seemed to be the ones to be more inclusive of other faiths.......and of other's myths. It would make some sense to have an inclusive and welcoming form of worship where all of us mystics could find some fellowship together. The focus on Christ (however the individual mystic defines Christ) would be the glue that holds (or the thread that links) all those crazy mystics together. Just think of the wealth of religious/spiritual material that would be at our fingertips. It would be easier to find commonality among mystical Christians than the group of people that the UU deals with every day.

Do you want to get the UMCC started? It only takes a few people willing to act as founders and start the grass roots movement rolling. BTW, www.umcc.ws is available on Godaddy for only $9.99.

Different personalities commune with this Mystic God in different ways, service, song, contemplation, philosophy or even physical exertion. All good paths to the zone. Different ways to express this experience is necessary for the different personal histories one has to relate to. I think all are valid explanations as long as all are respected and accepted as trying to explain the one truth. One who has mystical knowledge I think would be comfortable with this tolerance.

Would that be "The United Mystical Church of Christ"? You'd have me showing up each Sunday! Wouldn't it be great to see Gnostics and Quakers and Creation Spirituality folks and ...... all the other branches of Christian mysticism under the same umbrella.

YES. Start to imagine what a common vision of "religious knowing" would mean and how that would require that we do church differently. That does not mean that we throw away what we "know" based upon the more accepted way of knowing. However, that way of knowing is limited and has limited our ability to do church. I think one reason the evangelicals are so successful is that people are so hungry for "religious knowing" that they will check their brain at the door to the worship service. We need to find a way to appreciate both ways of knowing, build a church on this basis and evangelize.

Would someone be willing to define "religious knowing" (as is being used in this post) for me? As a Gnostic, my brain defaults to Gnosis (that wonderful direct mystical intuitive knowledge of the ineffable "God" ) everytime such a phrase is written. I just might be in agreement with all this, but seem to be missing that common definition.

Thanks.

Spiritually I concider myself to be a sophianic gnostic, but have not really found a faith I can wholeheartedly connect with.

Hello Jim. It's nice to find another Gnostic on this forum. While I don't consider myself exclusively Sophian, it is part of my gnowledge. If I was forced to be more specific than plain old Gnostic? Universalist Gnostic? The Sethian texts speak to me on some topics while the Valentinian mythology connects with my Christian roots and Sophia plays a major role when I'm in a rather Jungian mood.

I also fully share your sense of being an "alien." Fearfully, it seems to be a large part of our religion for many. I, too, have had much difficulty finding a spiritual home. The UCC folks haven't found me Christian enough and many UU congregations identified me as too Christian.

Strangely I have some sense of calling to become a minister. A minister of what? I don't know. Can't really support a family with a career as a gnostic minister, but in an ideal world this is what I would do. If anyone has any ideas let me know, because I will not rest until I find out what the meaning of this calling is. There is know dout that I would be good at a career of this sort, but the how to get there part is overwhelming at this point. Any thoughts would be appriciated.

You are part of a growing movement and your awakening to the call is not done in isolation. I wonder how the religious landscape will be changing over the coming years. The ignorance seems to be lifting for many.

FYI, I started a thread about Hermetic Gnosticism in the "other religions" section.

Here's a song that I often sing.

 

O Great Wave,

Wipe away,

Wipe away my false face.

Awaken from my sleep a radiant light.

Touch me.

Touch me.

I'm once again beyond the beyond.

I Am That I Am.

Namaste. Thank you fathergnosisman! Thank you! I just used that as part of my contemplation/prayer and plan on doing so in the future. I have added it into my rotation (with your permission, of course).

Does prayer require a belief in God?

 

Um, yup, otherwise you're having a conversation with yourself. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Seriously, I do tarot readings on myself where I believe that is what I'm doing - talking to myself, delving into my subconcious. I don't call it prayer though. Meditation maybe?

I have a friend that, depending on the day, calls himself an Atheist, Humanist, or Agnostic. He rejects the idea of any transcendent power that intervenes......at all. He does believe in a type of energy (yet to be discovered by science) that can be altered by prayer. He also has some belief in an offshoot of the collective unconscious that can be altered through prayer. He calls it prayer, not meditation.

I am afraid that I have offended him on both accounts. I "accused" him of a belief in God....... and I challenged his using the word "prayer." I'm still not sure, though.

A friend and I saw the Da Vinci code. We didn't get struck by lightening.

Yeah, but what would've happened had you seen "The Omen?" I thought their release date was quite the marketing ploy.

I found this in an essay by Stephen A. Hoeller  called What is Gnostic?

I do like that list, although I think you can pare down the "fundamentals" even further. In fact, I came across a website that whittled them down to the following:

1)The Divine Spark is within everyone.

2)Humanity's true state is to be found beyond the material world with God.

3)Enlightenment is awakening to these facts and reconnecting the Divine Spark with God.

Oh, no! The traditionalists might be after my head for posting such a short list.

BTW, Bishop Hoeller (+Stephan Hoeller) has some great free lectures Here

 2.)  As a result of the precosmic division the universe was created. This was done by a leader possessing inferior spiritual powers and who often resembled the Old Testament Jehovah.

#2 -  I assume this is the Demiurge.  Correct?  I believe that humanity's symbols for God are ever-expanding and the Demiurge represents the Ancient Hebrew's first recorded symbol for God (pretty sophisticated actually), but limited.  I don't yet see the value of this symbol except in recognizing that it is not the whole story of God.

Yes, but..... Yes, but..... That always seems to be the case when anyone starts trying to describe Gnostic thought. The myths are so difficult to translate into linear forms. How do you describe a mystical moment? Poetry. Art. Storytelling. I think the best Gnostic myths are more Tao-like.

In my mind, the Demiurge represents creation absent the Divine Spark. Have you ever witnessed a painting that is technical, not artistic? It is creative and imaginative and the brush strokes are excellent, yet something is missing. A piece of music that makes all the right notes, but doesn't have soul? I think the story warns us of "acting" without being connected to God. It is a story of arrogance and ignorance. Some say the Demiurge is God's "ego."

I like the Gospels that tell of Sophia's role in creation. Her wanting to be creative, but trying to do so without the "Invisible Spirit" (or the real God). She creates from a place of separation (separated from that which she emanated from .... and from her opposite) and the result was a flawed creation, lacking in the fullness of the Pleroma. It speaks to syzygy.

I'll be back later for more. Good stuff!

In all seriousness:

Hail Sophia:

Hail Sophia, full of light, the Christ is with you, blessed are you among all the aeons, and blessed is the liberator of your light, Jesus.

Hail Sophia, Mother of all gods, pray to the Light for us your children, now and in the hour of our death.

Amen.

A Closing Prayer:

O Gentle, O Kind, O Blessed Sophia,

Your children on earth call unto You.

We pray You, Beloved Mother, to cast forth

your net of woven starlight.

Fling it wide across the ocean of the universe

to gather us home to the realms of Light.

Amen.

My first exploration of Gnosticism (after reading Da Vinci code) was stopped abruptly because I didn't like the idea that was coming across of the physical world being bad stuff, but on second look I see that I was missing the point.

That was a stumbling block for me as well. My contemplation on "original sin" vs "original flaw" eventually boosted me up and over something that wasn't there.

No more time to comment, but I'll be back to this topic.  I suspect I am more in line with Gnosticism that I earlier suspected.  Especially in practice.

I look forward to it.

Gnosteric,

 

I'd love to hear your take on the article.

 

Fatherman

Not a bad article. It’s nice to see all of this attention being given to Gnosticism right now. It’s hard to keep a good idea down!

BTW, a good translation and commentary is “The Gospel of Mary Magdalene” by Jean-Yves Leloup.

Jacob Needleman, who writes the foreword, points out the text’s focus on mystery and the unconscious. It makes me think of Jung (the great Gnostic that he was) and the impact that the repression of women (as well as Mary & Sophia) has had on the Church.

The Church has tried to hide from half of its “being” for a long time. The result is a growing “shadow” that keeps manifesting itself in the most embarrassing, and well documented, of ways. It’s also interesting to keep anima/animus in mind when thinking of the roles of (and ratio of) men/women in the current church population. The archetypal symbolism of "masculine" and "feminine" is all out of whack and it is affecting women and men. If the church had not repressed so much of Sophia then just maybe more men would be involved as congregants and more women would be in leadership thus creating a more “individuated” church body.

I agree with the viewpoint that Christ symbolizes “God consciousness” and Sophia (often seen as Mary) symbolizes wisdom and life. When the two are combined (or married) then our psyche (or soul) connects with God in a more enlightened place. The fruits of this “marriage” are seen in our culture’s transformation. When one is absent the other …. well ….. that means trouble (again well documented within the church by its scandals, declining membership….) and our culture's stagnation.

IMO, we will never reach our true Fullness (the Kingdom?) until we remedy this current imbalance.

Fatherman, still glad you asked?

well, maybe he can have the soup, but definitely no cookies at bedtime!

Now that's just not right! Not my COOKIES!

Oh Father(man), can I do 1000 hail Sophia's instead?

Gnosteric,

 

When I was young I thought it was imperative to believe in the ressurection.  I grasped desperately after the myth only to find later that I must die for my own sins... Now (at 50) I just want to 'enter God's rest'.  What is important to you about the ressurection?

 

Dave

Dave, you must be aware that my current interpretation of the resurrection is clearly tied to my being a Gnostic. In fact, prior to Gnosticism, I almost left Christianity entirely because of a literalist understanding of it.

For me, this life is all about awakening to the Divine Spark in each of us. It’s about our ongoing spiritual growth that transforms us from a place of ignorance to our true Divinity. We become less attached to our everyday (or material) strivings (wealth, consumerism, status, power….) and more interested in our spiritual nature.

As +Stephan Hoeller says:

The Gnostics regarded the term resurrection as a word-symbol for gnosis, or true spiritual awakening. When we awaken to the consciousness of who we are, where we come from, and where we are going, we have arrived at knowledge of the things that truly are. To the Gnostic tradition, Christ’s resurrection is the mysterious

inducement facilitating our own resurrection or awakening.

In a manner that is related (but only to a degree) to people who have “born again” experiences, the Gnostic has these multiple spiritual moments of intuitive, experiential knowing that transforms her/him to a deeper level of fullness. The ultimate gnosis (IMO usually only happens after several lifetimes…..not three days ) is the final stage that returns one to the “God consciousness” that many call the Invisible Spirit.

To me, the Easter story is a mythical representation of this process.

Has anyone mentioned Osiris, Dionysus, Bachus, and/or Mithras? All those myths are very powerful spiritual allegories.......just like the Jesus myth.

IMO, the resurrection is, quite possibly, the most important part of the myth.

What a great idea! (I hope I'm not too late.)

Blessings,

Eric

Other good books:

"The Beliefnet Guide to Gnosticism and Other Vanished Christianities" by Richard Valantasis (with a preface by Marcus Borg).

"The Gnostic Jung and the Seven Sermons to the Dead" by +Stephan Hoeller

"Gnosticism: New Light On The Ancient Tradition of Inner Knowing" by +Stephan Hoeller

"Jesus And The Lost Goddess: The Secret Teachings of the Origional Christians" by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy

"The Gnostic Bible" edited by Willis Barnstone & Marvin Meyer

I would have mentioned Pagels, but you already did so.

He (Stratford) has a great blurb on dualism that I find refreshing. Some gnostics I've talked to are so "Evil, evil, matter is evil and must be escaped!" that it's kept me from investigating gnosticism for a long time.

May I be so bold as to suggest that those you've talked to have been providing you with a superficial understanding of Gnosticism. The two groups that I know that have told similar tales include the "immature" Gnostic and the more orthodox Christians who want people to run screaming from anything Gnostic. I have never understood how mainstream Christianity has not fessed up to the same dualistic dillema?

I just started reading The Soul's Code by James Hillman, a Jungian psychologist. In it he discusses the "acorn theory" of life. In a nutshell (which is actually the title of the first chapter) the book is about how each of us have a "calling." He uses Plato's story of Er and the three fates and how we each have our own "daimon" which nudges us towards a specific fate.

 

Although he doesn't espouse any particular religion and would prefer to keep such concepts within the realm of psychology, his words make it clear that "soul/spirit" is an important facet of his theory.

Cool, cool book! Hillman has made claim to be a Neo-Platonist, but I've never heard of him claiming to be a Gnostic. He (as did Jung) seems to believe that the border between psychology and religion is worthy of much mining. I think that he is right.

Has anyone ever read "The Gnostic Jung and the Seven Sermons to the Dead" by Stephen A. Hoeller? Great book! Hoeller (a bishop at a LA parish of the Ecclesia Gnostica link: http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/eghome.htm) makes clear how Jung really was a modern Gnostic. Albeit one who utilized that same border territory, between psychology and religion, that Hillman has so readily brought to life.

Which are you?  Are you so obsessed with asking questions that you don't take the time to listen for the answers.  Or are you so arrogant to believe you have the answers and don't ever ask the questions?

1) I know, with my puny brain, that I don’t know at least 99.9% of what there is to know.

2) I know, with my heart (as in the biblical intimate knowing), that I have experienced the ineffable Divine.

3) Because of that Gnosis (#2), I will forever be a seeker. I am “addicted” to “know thyself,” (in order to experience spiritual growth) as well as compelled to “lift up every stone” and search every “split piece of wood” for Christ and Sophia.

I am both arrogant (to Gnow that I have touched the Divine) and obsessed (to want more of it).

Very cool thread! I consider myself a Platonic Gnostic that loves Hillman!

Too bad that I have to leave for a few days (I know, I know I just got here. lol) I can't wait to see where the thread has traveled by then.

Gnostic priest addresses Da Vinci Code controversy

Rev. Stratford (from the article) has an interesting blog at http://egina.blogspot.com/ He's an interesting guy with a sharp mind. He's a Sophian Gnostic, ordained by and active in the Apostolic Johannite Church, and wrote an interesting book called the Da Vinci Prayer Book http://thedavinciprayerbook.com/ that does more justice to Gnosticism (than Mr. Brown).

I also think he's the one that described Gnosticism (or at least the current group of active Gnostic churches) as Catholic on the outside and Buddhist on the inside.

Gnosteric, I would love to hear what attracts you to gnosticism.

It’s all about the Gnosis! I don’t want to be flip, but your question is far too large for one post. If I were to post several different Gnostic topics (those that would more adequately merge to form the complete answer), then where would they go? Progressive Christianity? Other religions? Hey buddy, go find the Gnostic message boards?

The first topics (in my order) would be: divine spark, original flaw, and awakening.

BTW, feel free to drop the Gnost and call me Eric.