Jack of Spades
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Posts posted by Jack of Spades
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I've been thinking of posting some threads talking about the morals in different movies. Would anyone be interested in reading these?I think it would be interesting to read/talk about the view on life in fiction.But I have to mention one technical thing, usually in forums, the fear of ending up reading spoilers is what keeps me away from threads which are about movies and tv-series and that kind of kills the discussion before it even started... So, I hope you have some sort of "spoiler safety policy" in place if u start doing those, so me and other as paranoid people actually dare to open the threads.Is it possible to add spoiler tags here which hide the text inside them? I couldn't find those in options when I tried to look... -
Hi Jack of Spades,
Yes, I don't consider the teachings attributed to Jesus as 'authoritative' as in 'from' God. I think a lot of what is attributed to Jesus seems like solid ideals and a 'way' to God that maybe Jesus found meaningful, but I think we all need to find our own way. For some, taking the words of Jesus as God speaking works for them - it just doesn't for me.
I'd add to this that I think Jesus was talking to Jews of his time and not to people in western countries in the two thousands. That's why Jesus offers no insight into homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, how to solve world hunger, how to manage the multiple views and opinions in a democracy, etc. None of this was on Jesus' radar and so we have no 'authoritative' words from him about such matters.
Okay, thank you for clarification.
I'm personally exploring alternative views on the authority of the Bible. I don't want to go to either extreme, fundamentalist or entirely secular view, but I find anything that's in-between those two to be interesting.
My religious beliefs are a bit unclear atm so it's difficult to make very clear statements about them. If I tried to describe my view on the Bible now, it would be that I see it as a source of inspiration for my spirituality. Either one source among others, or maybe as a special source of inspiration, but that's about as far as I'm willing to.
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1. I don't think there is any 'deal'. Jesus seems to have a few good things to say concerning how to live a rewarding life and if we take those ideas and use them then maybe we will feel somewhat fulfilled. But I don't think everything Jesus says should be taken as Gospel (pun intended) and readers need to consider for themselves the applicability of Jesus' words (or the words attributed to Jesus anyway).
To me it sounds like you don't consider Jesuses teachings in any way as authorative? Did I get it right? I would be interested to hear more about your thoughts on the topic!
3, I think we can 'face our fears' and once we do so we can take some strength from that. Even passionate, fundamental Christians fear, then they pass their fear over to 'Jesus'. Jesus is the tool they use to calm themselves - others may use meditation, contemplation, other religions, etc.
Talking about projecting fears to Jesus, I find it very important to recognize that while we might actually experience the real God, our experience of God is always partly a projection of our own mind. Like f.e., we can mirror our fear of being abandoned to a belief of God having abandoned us, or threatening to abandon us.For me, recognizing this "man creating their own God" - factor is not at all an argument against theism itself. Likewise we do the same kind of emotional projecting in all of our human relationships, and even if there is projecting, those relationships still happen with real human beings.I think it's essential part of spiritual life to learn to see the difference between the two, the image of God which is created by tricks of my mind and the actual communication with God. Not saying it's in any ways easy to tell them apart, but I find this to be important thing to be aware of.5. I agree - evil is a pretty strong word and I often think we're too hard on ourselves considering we have so rapidly evolved in recent millenniums.
In a way I agree, the world looks to me more hopeful in many ways than it has done in centuries. I think first world countries today are historically speaking so good places to live in for average man, that it's unheard of in any other previous era.But on the other hand, I do realize that there are extreme risks looming in the horizon in todays world, which might very well end up undoing all the progress we have done. Like f.e. the somewhat realistic possibility of humanity completely destroying itself. Either by polluting the planet to a point of it becoming uninhabitable or by use of nuclear- or bioweapons. So, the peace and prosperity enjoyed by the first world people today might be a lasting new era, or it might turn out to be just a sweet daydream with a rude awakening awaiting.I think the summary of technological progress of humanity is that we have raised the stakes to a whole new level. If it goes well, we will have much more prosperity and possibilites (thinking of medical science) than we would have ever had without the said progress. But if it goes wrong, the disaster is going to be so massive that the bishops who told Galileo and other pioneers of science to shut up, will turn in their graves and shout "See, I told you so, it's of devil!" -
My thoughts on point 8 sticky questions. Ideas and comments from others are appreciated!1. What does the word “disciple” mean for you today? In what ways do you think it could be “costly?”- Disciple means to me someone who has committed themselves to study and follow teachings and example of a certain teacher, like f.e. Jesus. For me, such commitment sounds very costly, in terms of basically giving away ones control over their own life and to a degree, ones own thinking. In Gospels, the disciples gave away pretty much everything to walk with Jesus.Counterquestion: Is it possible to be just partly disciple of Jesus? Could this be the way to get some discount? Or does it have to be all-in or there won't be a deal?2. How far would you be willing to go? What changes would you be willing to make? What risks would you be willing to take?- I'm not yet ready to love my enemy, but I might be at times willing to try to love someone I don't particularly like, or who's views I find annoying.3. How might we transform our negative fears into positive energy? How could we help others to do the same?- I don't think fear itself can be transformed into positive energy. But the process of overcoming the fear can be a great source of positive energy, because learning to overcome one fear will teach us the tools to overcome new fears in the future.As for helping others, I have been mostly helped by people who live fearlessly, so that makes me think inspiring example is the best way. It comes quite naturally from people who have the energy we talking about. I have found myself being inspired by people who look at life (either generally, or some part of it) with trust, joy, curiosity and creative energy. Most of the times, those people are very much unaware of the fact they have inspired me by just being the way they are.Realist note: I don't personally seek to free my life from fear completely. I think that would be naive and dangerous, fear is after all healthy, protective instinct. But I'm willing to explore the spiritual side of fear-trust-naivety dilemma more and I'm open for further revelations and ideas about it.4. What privilege are you willing to recognize and renounce for the betterment of all?- We shall find out when the time of such choices come.5. What do we mean by evil today? In what ways do you think you can resist evil in our world, in your life?- Evil is a pretty strong word, along with evil, there are things which are imperfect, corrupted, or harmful, without them being outright evil.As for essence of evil, I personally believe that malevolent spirits exist, and they can affect and influence us. But, because I am aware of the reputation such beliefs have, I want to also say that for me, believing in the spiritual world doesn't mean I rely entirely on hocus pocus solutions to complex problems. For me, such beliefs are about recognizing the spiritual side of the world, good and evil, as part of my every day life.Resisting evil In the world? I don't really have much power over the big picture of things, so I try not to care too much about the world.Resisting evil in my own life? I think most important part of the inner battle for my soul between good and evil is my private life of prayer and contemplation.
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Apparently it's the default that auto accepts friend requests, or at least that's what I saw when I checked my settings.
I haven't tried the chat yet! I will be doing that soon I hope
Awesome post, by the way! I plan on posting a bit maybe later today
We should really test the chat
I'll leave it running on the background when I'm around, I hope to see you there sometime! And thanks!
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Yes, I believe we have met before!
No Swedish yet, but I always look forward to the possibility that I can go visit my family there one day. I'd be really interested in your posts though! How do you add friends here? I'm going to try to do that with you, haha.
I guess you figured it out, because it says we're friends now. My settings were apparently a bit off because it didn't give me any notification about it, I guess those are the defaults or then I've unintentionally tampered with them at some point...
Have you tried the chat on this site? I occasionally pop there but either I'm doing something wrong or it's not very active because I've never met another human soul there. Just wondering if I'm doing something wrong with it...
I felt obliged to make a thread about one of the points because I mentioned that, so I just started with this one:
http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/3650-my-life-my-statement-of-faith/
I look forward to reading about your thoughts there!
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My answers to the sticky thread.Info for starters: I'm still a bit unsure where I stand regarding Christianity, so my answers are more of speculation than rock solid statements. Still trying to figure it out!1. What problems might arise in a church community that has no dogmatic beliefs?- I haven't really been part of such community, so it's difficult to answer. Many problems only become apparent after a while. I feel like I should experience it before having a reasonable opinion about it.2. How do we deal with our differences in a healthy and positive way?- As for myself, I believe it can be done by making my personal goal to understand others better and by showing some respect to them. It usually works well if other participants share the same goal.However, we live in an imperfect world and from time to time in a community, I might have to deal with someone who's goal is not to get along with me, but rather to change me to be like they are. What to do in such situation is the most difficult dilemma for me. If it only happens now and then, the solution is to just ignore it, but if it's habitual and continuous, there is a limit for how much I'm capable or willing to tolerate, and when that limit is reached, there are few good solutions left.3. What are some of the ways we can demonstrate our understanding of the “great commandment” when it comes to loving our neighbor?- As a mystic, I tend to emphasize the essence of love over the idea of love as a collection of actions. I think, if I have love in my spirit as a driving force, it will eventually manifest in my attitude and actions towards others. I feel that trying to make a list of actions which are loving is reducing love to something that is little bit mechanical. In practice, love can be things not said and done as much as things said and done.4. Create a list of Christian values that you think are reflections of your faith today.- I appreciate most classic Christian virtues, such as love, kindness, patience, wisdom, faith etc. But I must say, there are some classic Christian virtues I can't really embrace, like modesty and self-denial, at least in sense of what I understand them to mean. I'm more into "life is short, have some fun and embrace what you are" - attitude on that area.I must say, I might have some translation difficulties with understanding the question because it seems wierd to me.5. Do you believe that you behave as a follower of Jesus most of the time; some of the time; or now and then?- I might have some Christ-inspired moments now and then, but to claim that's what defines me as a person would be a huge overstatement. I'm more of a "I mind my own business" - kinda guy than someone who's actively trying to make the world a better place for everyone.
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Hello KitKatMatt!I believe we have already met elsewhere in the cyberspace before. It's very nice to see you end up here too! How are you doing nowadays? Do you speak Swedish already?I found this place a month or so ago myself. The 8-point statement of faith was very attractive for me too and I would actually like to dig deeper into it, but for some reason I haven't yet started to make posts about it.
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Jack of Spades, Salutations to the Divinity within you that is shining light on your journey. Are you a one eyed Jack or two? You are blessed even if you have 3 eyes and especially for living in Finland. I spent almost a year in Sweden and loved the people from Finland, Norway and Sweden, who have a very sincere, deep presence.
We truly know others by their behavior and actions and not so much by their belief because for some it is easier to fight for what they believe in than to live up to it, in contrast, Christian mysticism lives the truth instead of claiming and declaring it. Thomas Merton a Christian Mystic said the same thing in another way, “To be grateful is to recognize the Love of God in everything He has given us everything. Every breath we draw is a gift of His love, every moment of existence is a grace, for it brings with it immense graces from Him. Gratitude therefore takes nothing for granted, is never unresponsive, it is constantly awakening to new wonder and to praise the goodness of God. For the grateful person knows that God is good, not by hearsay but by experience. And that is what makes all the difference.”
I enjoy your post and hope to read more.
Hello soma.It's nice to hear you liked your stay in our cold corner of the world.During last years, I've been very interested about the people and culture of the United States. It's a huge country with a lot of diversity, and I've come to see Americans as energetic and daring people.Christian mysticism is close to my heart, perhaps it has something to do with my youth as a Charismatic Christian. -
Like you, Jack of Spades, I find labels to be helpful as long as the meaning behind them is contemplated and understood through the lenses of both heart and mind. I find freedom in not fearing words or labels. In my experience, it's a fear of looking behind the labels at the hidden motivations that causes suffering. As human beings, we often find it easier to blame the labels instead of blaming our unresolved issues with anger and hatred and jealousy, etc.
Yups, we are more or less on same page on this one I think. If we could change human heart by replacing names of things, that would be a bit too easy, no?
But to make this a bit more complicated, I'd like mention that sometimes new names for things can be useful symbols aswell, as an outward sign of inner change and new way of looking at things. New name for something can also be a signal for outsider that this is not the same as the old way. But then again, there is always the risk of ending up having the same old thing with just another name. It's a double-edged sword really I think.
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So perhaps there is a time and place for everything.
That's how I like to see it. What that means in my case is, right now I find it purposeful to seek for a religious identity. Maybe I end up finding something else than what I think I'm looking for, but for now, it seems a meaningful goal for me.
I realize this "labels or no labels" question might have different meaning for you than it does for me, so let me explain a bit why I think the way I do. I draw my point of view mostly from what I've read in history. I've come to notice that many revolutions, which intend to change the world, fall often to the trap of just changing the names, and thus sometimes become a bit of a farce. I personally want to avoid doing that.
For example, communists wanted to create a society where everyone is equal, so everything was renamed. There was no "minister", but "people's commissar", but de facto it was the same thing as being minister. And so on. In the end, the new equal society with new names turned out to be at least as inequal and oppressive (albeit with a bit different dynamics of power) than the previous one.
But on the other hand, I do realize that seeing things without their labels, and trying to understand what is behind the words, is a good practice for contemplation. The reality is greater and much more colorful than our boxes and labels are.
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Hi Jack, as I see it there is no need to seek for an "identity". Why label ourselves?. Each of us is unique. Labels can easily become the beginnings of judgement of others, and for ourselves the constrictions that curtail the truth that sets us free.
All the best
Derek
Hello tariki
I like labels, if they are used to help us understand and communicate.
For comparison, biologically speaking, I'm a man. Should I not use the word "man" to describe myself, just because there are other people who identify themselves as woman and I don't want to judge them? If I dropped the words of "man" and "woman" out of my vocabulary, I think that's just the surface level and I would eventually just invent new words in their place. The problem of judgementalism ought to be solved on deeper level than by rejecting helpful, descriptive labels. To put it in a bit more biblical way, it's the spirit that matters whether we are judging others or not, not really the words we use.
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Greetings Jack of Spades,
Thanks for the introduction and A+ on your language.
You are certainly not alone in your journey and like you I also " rely very much on my own personal experiential spirituality to show me the way"Again welcome and feel free to share your thoughts and views,
Joseph
Thank you JosephM! It's a happy day for me, I've never got an A+ in English before!
I can't help noticing that your profile quote sounds like it has a dose of Buddhism in it? -
Hi Jack of Spades. Welcome to TCPC (and your English is excellent, by the way, so no worries on that score).
I think you'll find others on this site who have questioned as much and as often as you have (including myself). I hope you'll share your thoughts and insights with you and teach us what you've learned on your journey.
We all need each other!
Thank you Realspiritik!
I clicked the link in your signature and ended up reading the blog for quite some time. I'm going to assume you are the author of the blog (please correct me if I got it wrong.)In the "Okay, So I’m a Heretic. But So Is Jesus!" blog you mentioned about academic study being one side of your mystical journey, like f.e. learning exegesis. I find it interesting because I could say that studying church history plays a part in my spiritual journey aswell. I happen to be a history geek (not a professional one tho) and for me, studying lives of saints, history of revival movements etc. has been a part of my spiritual practice for a long time.As for being a Heretic, I think it's very difficult to be a mystic and not be a heretic. Entering the wonderland of the mystical experience has tendency of making things often much more colorful than is acceptable for people who are the ones who define and guard the definitions of orthodoxy. -
Hello!
I've been spying the forum for few weeks and now I finally decided to make an account.
Brief introduction: I'm 30+ single male from Finland, Northern Europe. English is not my first language so excuse me if my writing is difficult to understand at times!
My religious background starts with Charismatic Christianity. I left that in my early twenties, and went through a period when I wanted nothing to do with religion. After that time was over, I started actively searching some kind of new religious home for myself. and I've been into many kind of stuff, like Liberal Christianity, Christian mysticism, Neo-Paganism and New Age. It's been a very rich spiritual journey, but in the end, the result seems to be just a huge identity crisis, especially in social sense. After being influenced by every other religion there is, it's rather difficult to find a place where I could honestly share what I think or feel, and not get kicked out as a "too much of X" or "too little of Y".
Currently, I identify myself just as a "mystic". I guess it's the most descriptive term for me atm, because I rely very much on my own personal experiential spirituality to show me the way. Everything external, like books, churches, dogmas, I consider to be a source of inspiration, rather than something authoritative.
I guess I could use the summary I've used before: "I'm too Christian to be anything else but Christian, but I'm not Christian enough to be a Christian". I don't know do I even expect to ever figure this mess out or not, but I'm always open for new influences and inspirations and that's why I'm here-
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Moral Discussions On Movies
in Media- music, film, TV etc
Posted · Edited by Jack of Spades
If there's no spoiler option, then how about making one thread for each movie, with the name of the movie in the title? That way it's possible to decide whether I've seen it or not before reading more.
You know, one of the reasons for my spoiler-phobia is that I very often watch movies only years later than everyone else, and by then everyone has forgotten about the possibility of someone having not seen it
Lion King sounds good! Have you watched animated X-Men series? There are couple of them around and I love them all! If those happen to be on your list, I'm going to be the first one to read it!!