thethinker

The conservative church has also remained the last bastion of long-held belief in the "sin" of homosexuality and the wrongness of equality among the sexes - one of the few places on earth left to seek validation of these old stereotypes. You know; where s*x is a dirty word. Perhaps the bump in attendance is the sound of folks hanging on to their prejudices?

Homosexuality is sin. But it no greater a sin than adultery or stealing. Paul puts them all in the same category. However, homosexuals should NOT be denied equal rights.

I think that the only hope for Christianity today is to embrace a non-theistic, love-centered philosophy based on the teachings of Jesus.

Why do you assume that theism and love are mutually exclusive? Jesus was a theist. His God was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

From readings both in the NT and historical writers i have found that the first ones who were called Christians were basically followers of the teachings of Jesus rather than a Bible. I do not find any reference to accepting the Bible as it exists today as the Word of God that makes it a requirement to be considered a Christian.

Actually the first Christians came to faith in Christ because the apostles preached how the [Hebrew] Scriptures testified of the Christ. Philip preached Christ to the Ethiopian from Isaiah. Paul even said to Timothy, "You have known the holy Scriptures which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

I do not find any reference to accepting the Bible as it exists today as the Word of God that makes it a requirement to be considered a Christian.

But you just invoked the NT which says that the first Christians became followers of Christ as the direct result of the preaching of the apostles from the Hebrew Scriptures. They said that that the Hebrew scrriptures were about Christ. Therefore, the NT which you have invoked upholds the Hebrew scriptures.

Since we have found an approach to God (Love) through the teachings of Jesus, we have as much a right as anyone to self label ourselves as Christian followers, howbeit, not with the same definition as more fundamental Christian churches might apply.

You correctly invoke the teachings of Jesus. Yet He taught the spirit of the Hebrew scriptures. Therefore, Jesus validated the Hebrew scriptures but with the life giving meaning. I would not call myself a Christian if I reject the scriptures anymore than I should call myself a Muslim if I reject the Quran. Yet there is a lot more to being a Christian than accepting the scriptures.

I in particular and possibly others have found that dogma and church doctrine of those more fundamentally inclined is sometimes actually contrary to Love.

I am with you on this point friend! I was just banned for one day from a hardcore Christian Right forum that has both hardcore fundamentalists and liberal Christians. They even have unbelieving members. Well, those on the right were saying that all sexually immoral people should be put to death. But an athiest spoke as if he was a believer and showed them that Christ did not condemn the woman taken in adultery. Then said, "Jesus set the bar for us." I posted a "thumbs up" to the athiest saying, "I never agree with you, but you're right on this one."

I was not supporting his athiest beliefs. I was just acknowledging that he was right on a certain point. But I was punished for that by a member who "neg repped" me. He has a lot of reputation power and so I lost a lot of well earned reputation points. His comment said with the neg rep said, "repent." He publically called me a "sexual pervert." I was shocked! I need to "repent' because I affirm to an athiest that he spoke a truth which should be a given by all true Christians? I am a sexual pervert because I affirm that we should not judge others?

Then I publically took him to task for it and questioned that he was a true friend of God and was banned for one day to cool off. But I decided that I will not go back to a forum that claims to be Christian and yet punishes someone for saying that Christ set the bar for us on the matter of not passing judgment upon others.

Well, I have many preparations for the Superbowl party. Later!

Deleted. Unintentionally duplicated

Please note your discrepancy. First you said,

I beg to differ. Did Jesus believe the God who commanded the Israelites to slaughter men, women, and children in acts of genocide stated on about a dozen different occasions, also think this was the identical God he was worshipping who he proclaimed as love and compassion and forgiveness?

Then you said:

I call myself a Christian and a follower of Christ, because I use what I believe was Christ's message to us about God and ourselves, as a way to live my life.

See the confusion? You rhetorically ask if Jesus believed in the uncompassionate God who commanded the Israelites to exterminate men, women and children. Your implied answer was yes. Then you say that you are a Christian because you use what you believe Jesus taught us about God and ourselves. Problem: If Jesus believed in the mean God, then how can you maintain that Jesus gleaned good things about God for you to live by? And why would you NOT believe in the same God Jesus believed in if He taught things about Him for you to use in your life?

The God of Jesus was also the god of His disciples. Jesus told His disciples, "I go to my God and your God." I maintain that it was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of promise. This God PRE-DATED Moses.

Should your God be different from the God of Jesus' disciples?

I think your confusion comes from your having been on the side of conservative Chriatianity which has grossly misrperesented the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

After this post I will have to review the guidelines and take this topic somethere else.

thethinker,

With all due respect for your view stated here, i would ask you that if you are "not interested in what anyone thinks concerning your question but only what the record says" then may i ask, Why are you here on this site? Hopefully not to just tell people here what the record says as most here are already familiar in depth what the record says and do not necessarily accept it as God's literal inerrant Word or interpret it the same as everyone else.

 

Joseph

I assumed that Progressive Christianity was still Christianity which is based exclusively on the record.

The 8 points say nothing about the Bible being rejected as God's word by PC. I just assumed, that all who go by the name "Christian" accept the Bible as God's word. This is why I said, "I don't want what anyone thinks." Christians always base what they think on the Bible and I thought that PC was Christian and therefore expected certain things.

Why the pretense? If you do not accept the Bible you are not Christian. So just come right out and say that you are not Christian? I don't get it. I do NOT have a problem with you having another way. Just don't call it the Christian way.

Thethinker, wouldn't you agree that no matter what the record may show, we still need to "think" about what it says and, perhaps more importantly, explore the record means by what it says?

Yes we need to "think" about what the record says. But you have not yet given me a specific word from the record to work with. You have expressed only what you think.

For instance, while I agree with you that Jesus was in relationship to the God that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob pointed to, Jesus did not seem to embrace the notions found in the Old Testament that God wanted His people to kill neighboring nations or to hate enemies. In fact, some of Jesus' teachings reflect that he even went against some of the beliefs and ordinances that Israel felt were necessary to be acceptable to God. He ate with prostitutes. He let a woman with a blood flow touch him. He fellowshipped with sinners. All of these things were forbidden by the Mosaic code. This doesn't at all mean that Jesus was for throwing out the Hebrew scriptures. But he did seem to think that God was known more through compassion than in trying to follow a holiness code.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob PRE-DATED the Mosaic code. Therefore, for Jesus to embrace the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would not imply that He He embraced a God that was not compassionate. In fact, the new testament authors associate Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with nothing but promises.

Jesus did not "throw out" the Hebrew scriptures. He FULFILLED them for the scriptures were all about Him (Luke 24).

That all depends on what/who you think is the God that Christ embraced.

No, it's not at all what/who I "think" or what/who you "think" is the God that Christ embraced. The record shows Christ embraced the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is this God who said, "You shall have no other gods before me."

Can one be a Christian without embracing the God that Christ embraced? I am not interested in what anyone "thinks," but only in what the record says.

Is it possible to be a follower of Christ (Christian) and not embrace the God He embraced?

Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened.

Wikipedia

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This uses an understanding of "prophecies" I don't accept. Preterism seems to be a stance one takes when reading the prophecies literally as a way explaining their completion. I don't see a need to do that.

Yet I had explained Christ's word to Caiaphas regarding His session at God's right hand and His coming in the clouds in a non-literal way.

It seems to me prophets call attention to problems here and now (Rachel Carson Silent Spring).

I respectfully disagree,

They also have an apocalyptic voice to encourage the oppressed when one needs to feel that justice and love will win the end. (We shall overcome.)

All was finished in ad70. We do not overcome. The first generation saints overcame for the sake of the future ages.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, ⁵ even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), ⁶ and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, ⁷that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-7

Please note that the first generation saints were seated with Christ for the benefit of the saints in the "ages to come." The first generation saints did the battle, Ephesians 6:10-18. We just bask in THEIR victory.

Unless of course God did not say that but rather the author/s of Exodus understood God that way so chose to write this as an expression of what they believed.

It is the exact same verb form used in the word, "And the serpent shall become a rod in your hand."

The traditional "I am" rendering would have been meaningless to the people when, because of their plight, they needed for God to become in a way that they had not known Him before.

Thank you all!

I am interested in finding out what "Progressive" Christianity is all about.

"God is not a being to be pleased, so much as God is a verb to be lived" - adapted by me from Bishop Spong's latest newsletter.

 

I like the thought of God not as a noun, but as a 'doing' word.

I think that God is both a noun and a verb with special emphasis on verb. After all, He said to Moses, "I shall become who I am becoming."

[Hebrew Interlinear, Exodus 3:14 http://www.scripture...ebrew_Index.htm]

Jesus told Caiaphas the high priest that they would see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power AND coming in the clouds. To "see" in reference to both acts, His session at God's right hand, and His coming in the clouds must be in the same sense. They saw both acts in the events that accompanied the acts.

We know that they did not literally see Christ sitting at God's right hand.

Thanks for the greeting. I would like to visit Australia just to see kangaroos. Kangaroos are my favorite animal. I didn't know that Australians followed the NFL teams. Sorry to hear that you are rooting for the 49ers.

Hi,

I was attracted to this site because of its title "Progressive Christianity."

I live in a suburb of Baltimore, Maryland and am expecting the Ravens to win the Superbowl this Sunday.

How do I set up my account with avatar and other settings? I see not an "account setting" button.

Thanks