AnnieG

Hi Lissy and Stillseekingod

There are good guys here, but it is also great to have some non-male company

I'm a unitarian and am I think attracted to this board because I see value in Christianity that goes beyond mainstream / traditional beliefs, and think as a person of European heritage (I'm speaking ancestors, as I live in New Zealand) - plus someone who survived a very conservative Sunday school -my life has been and still is greatly influenced by Christianity. Oh, and people have interesting things to say...

I'm a Mum of 2 kids, in my 40s

Look forward to getting to know you more

annie

I'd forgotten that Thanksgiving pops up right now..

For me Christmas is complex. I do enjoy singing along to Christmas carols and sacred music. I like setting up a tree at home. At times I think of the build up to Christmas in terms of the pressure to fit gift shopping, card writing & packing for a holiday into a busy routine. For us it signals the early part of a 6 week school holiday -'the Christmas holidays'- for the kids, and nowadays I worry how I will fit that around my work schedule. Some aspects of my Christmas are similar to yours Paul -my sons are 10 & 13, and in NZ I've always spent the day at the beach - my parents are at their beach cottage by then.

Burl, that's a wonderful expression of faith.

What does Christmas mean to you now?

 

If you had to grade the world Annie, with one single judgement, would you give it a higher score than a century ago, or a lower one?. Taking into account all those very relevant things you mention - safety, community support, environment, and quality of life.

 

Personally I don't think it's that easy, and certainly degradation of our environment, extinguishment of species at record rates, the apparent increasing divide between rich and poor, as well as many other negative factors certainly are cause for concern that we can't be patting ourselves on the back too much.

Paul,

100 years ago it was 1916, so I've got to say better.

20 years ago, I'm not so sure. Or is this nostalgia for younger days?

Whatever the situation, I do believe in the maxim 'Be the change you want to see in the world.'

Safety is important, but so is community support, the state of the environment and quality of life for the variously employed /'unemployed.' I'm doubtful that any of these other factors are improving overall.

Hi Paul

I feel written communication is sometimes like ships passing in the night, with those on board not seeing each other's perspective or destination. And I'm talking about people living in the same era, not centuries apart!

 

 

That's where I was going with my comments but it didn't seem to go as well as I would have liked. I wasn't saying people shouldn't enjoy and get inspiration from the bible but that making statements of fact about things we don't know as fact is misleading. Soemtimes I can't help but challenge such thinking. I could be overly sensitive perhaps, but I often feel like discussing the matter when people talk factually about the bible and things Christian when those things are not actually facts but interpretations and beliefs (which of course people should be free to have , but in the spirit of the forum here I would like to think they are open to discussion without us getting upset with one another).

Hi Burl

I appreciate having the lectionary posted.

It seems to me that the message of v. 17

learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
bring justice to the fatherless,
plead the widow's cause

and the contrast of this with 'iniquity and solemn assembly'

is highly relevant to PC aspirations, in spite of thehuge differences in world view from the original audience of Isaiah.

A lot of our congregation members come without their spouses, who don't feel spiritually at home with us, being either conservative Christian or disinterested in this type of faith group. I agree that respecting the spiritual orientation of a partner is vital, if challenging at times.

Interestingly our meeting house (built in 1901 as a Unitarian church) has stained-glass crosses on the side window panes.

Hi Bill

I can relate to missing the fellowship, in spite of no-one stepping up in your 'dark' times.

When looking around for a progressive congregation, I stumbled upon the UU's. It was their friendliness, along with respect for different spiritualities and beliefs, that kept me going back. The lack of Christian focus took some getting used to, but I can now appreciate the plural sources of inspiration speakers use.

Annie

 

 

What I do miss is the fellowship. I have (or had) some pretty good friends there at church. Yet none of them have been to see us in our "dark night of the soul" or during my wife's open-heart surgery. They assured us, via email, that they are praying for us. But, being human, I'd rather see someone face-to-face then to have them tell me that I'm in their prayers.

 

I visited a UUA church while I was in Boston. The UUAs have a long history of progressive social and theological movements. But they are, currently, only about 20% confessing Christian. That may be an option I pursue.

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing that, Burl.

One of my favorites is Vivaldi's Beatus Vir (Psalm 111: Blessed is the Man that fears the Lord). It somehow seems to capture joy and simplicity. (Will add a link when I 'catch' a new mouse.)

Annie

Hi Jen

This is interesting!

The flood seems a harsh solution. Do you ever provide explanations for the parables?

Annie

Please add a poem that speaks to your spirit in some way.

For starters, the poem I have on my fridge:

This is how a human being can change:

There's a worm addicted to eating grape leaves

Suddenly he wakes up, call it grace, whatever, something

wakes him and he's no longer a worm

He's the entire vineyard

and the orchard too, the fruit, the trunks,

a growing wisdom and joy

that doesn't need to devour

Rumi

It is difficult to live with people who fear and think they are right with all the answers, yet we still have peace in our mind.

 

Do not worry

if all the candles

in the world

flicker and die.

We have the

SPARK

that starts the

FIRE.

 

~ Jalal ad-din Rumi

-Translated by Coleman Barks.

 

May we all find our safe and welcoming place where we can enjoy everyone even the most bitter among us. Laugh with and not at people and the world laughs with us no matter how much pain is there. Christians who build walls to keep others out are actually keeping them selves in prison. Freedom allows us to enter their kingdom, laugh and leave and go back to the place that exposes awe in everything.

Well-said, Soma.

To add more from Rumi :

This being human is a guest house.Every morning a new arrival.A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor.Welcome and entertain them all!Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,who violently sweep your houseempty of its furniture,still, treat each guest honorably.He may be clearing you outfor some new delight.The dark thought, the shame, the malice,meet them at the door laughing,and invite them in.Be grateful for whoever comes,because each has been sentas a guide from beyond.

 

They really thought each gospel told a different part of Jesus' story at different times, due to the way the gospel is read at church) --- I have to really resist the tendency to point out a misconceived belief because I'm not sure how to do that in a way that still "acknowledge that their ways are true for them".

Byrch,

I guess there are more and less tactful ways of stating any beliefs: compare 'x makes a pretty good case for y' to 'what you say is impossible'. In my case I'm pleased to have moved beyond silence (with people I know well) to stumbling attempts to explain myself

Annie

Welcome, Byrch

 

 

Sometimes it feels like PC is a 'reclaiming' of what Jesus intended.

Other times it feels like PC should be called something else... Jesuism or something. I don't know. But it feels like it is so far from what 98% (no, I don't have facts for that figure, lol - its just a 'feels like' kind of number) of the Christian population believe that it is no longer even Christianity.

 

 

 

 

I know it can feel just like this. Still, down in New Zealand at least, I feel that progressive christianity is closer to the outlook of the many non-religious people I know than the conservative Christian perspective.

I found an interesting article on Huffington Post which talks about a downwards trend in the US for religious conservatives (ie conservatism it is less popular for younger generations), and how media commentary by progressive Christian leaders is increasing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raushenbush/progressive-christianity_b_5437715.html

Annie

I haven't dropped by for quite some time ...it's nice to see some familiar faces /alter egos and reconnect with the PC.org vibe.

Has anyone else been a prodigal son/daughter with this site at times? For me I became less 'regular' in the process of moving back to New Zealand, having longer working hours, finding a real time church that works for me (hooray, it's basically the first time ever), and having a computer break down.

Annie G

I like the way you describe salvation, Joseph. The song 'Amazing Grace' still appeals to me because I am comfortable with interpreting its language in psychological terms. I feel I have been 'saved' from overwhelming identification with negative emotions and thoughts, through a combination of empathetic guides and time /growth itself. The process has included moving from the idea of being 'fallen' to simply being human, with frailites but also potential for love, caring and enjoyment of life.

Hi Elizabeth

Welcome! Like you, I have also found encouragement in the Unitarian church, and in the writings of Bishop Spong. I heard him speak once, many years ago, and can still remember the way he held my attention.

Hope to hear more from you

Annie

Hi Pam

Welcome:)

Good on you for moving into writing as a career - hope you find it rewarding.

To me 'a true embracing of Christianity' seems a very high bar; I'm going to think more about what that would involve.

Annie

Welcome Tiger Lilly

It's great that you could go to the words of Jesus (authentic or not) in spite of experiences of bible-bashing, and find value within them.

Hope to hear more from you

Annie

Welcome searchingmom,

Hope your Mother's day was enjoyable.Being outside is surely being close to 'heaven'.

Annie

Hi Kay

Welcome. So your church is something of an oasis? Hope to hear more from you.

Annie

Thanks for your responses, all illuminating.

I'm reminded of a kids' Christmas story, where Santa is 'ambushed' by a family who in turn demand his hat, coat, gloves and boots. He rides off into the night shivering away, but presumably heading for the next house.

Annie

Is there wisdom in this philosophy? Can it be taken as a directive, or is it more likely to be exaggeration designed to grab our attention? Is choosing to remove ourselves from aggressive situations evidence of limited ability to love others?