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zaidagal

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About zaidagal

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  1. Kay! YES - so many books so little time!!!!!
  2. Ive just discovered him, and Im loving his writing! Im a bit confused though. I know he has left the "church" but does he still define himself as a Christian? The book Im reading now, written in 1974, is so eloquent and beautiful and inspiring about Christ, but Im wondring if he would still stand by what he wrote in this book!
  3. Its one of the things that scares me about sunday school, and what my kids are learning - Alec came home talking about how God killed everybody in the flood. I told him that I dont think God really did that - that it was people trying to tell stories about floods and why they happened, and that maybe, they got the story wrong. If Im going to keep being a believer in Jesus - and I want to be! - I just cant believe that he is part of a God who ordered all these folks murdered....so I will have to go with one of the alternative explanantions, and not accept the OT as factual. This discussion is great Im getting a lot out of everyones feedback.
  4. Thank you both for your responses! Glintofpewter - The mythical angle is quite interesting, and I will have to look into this further. You asked the difference between 5 and 6 - from my reading, the people who believe point 5 (as above) just have decided a good God would not order mass killing, and therefore the writers got it wrong - period. Those who believe in point 6 believe the authors got it wrong, but seek to offer an explanation - that our God is a God who has revealed himself slowly throughout time, and until the arrivel of Jesus, people did not understand the truly loving nature of God - therefore the writers of the OT sometimes misunderstood God, and thus wrote faulty things such as he ordered a mass killing. The other poster - those are interesting angles, although Im american, I dont like that military-style perspective! The whole issue of the killing of the cannaanites has really gotten to me...
  5. Hi everyone - Ive been thinking a lot about the slaughter of the canaanites in the old testament, and how it seems to go against everything that is in Gods character. I just cant imagine him ordering new babies to be slaughtered! Ive done some reading on the matter, and here are some of the explanations Ive run across - 1)It was a "just" and good thing for God to do, we just dont know why 2) God didnt really "do" it, He is just "allowed" it when he got completely fed up with the canaanites, and their lack of submission, and lack of love. 3) The Canaanites were so evil, we cant even understand the kind of evilness in todays world - antyhing we have today pales in comparisson - therefore God was juistified. 4) Bible words such as "ALL" the canaanites, and "all men, women, and children" were just expressions, and God didnt really mean "ALL". 5) God didnt order the killing - the writers of the OT simply got it wrong. 6) The Bible is progressively revealing Gods character and people progressively understand more of Gods character - people in OT times still had a faulty understanding of God, and when they killed the canaanites, it was easy for them to conceive of a God who ordered this. But as God is progressively revealed, (especially through Christ) we understand it would be impossible for a God with love and goodness as His character to order these things - the OT writers got it wrong, but it was based on their current understanding. Of all of the above, number 6 seems to appeal to me the most... (well, number 5 appeals the most, but in temrs of explanation, number 6 seems pretty good!) Any thoughts on this?
  6. Hi Norm - I started a new topic, because I see there were lots of responses on the topic you started "where do I go from here", and I thought Id start one for you based on reading ideas....Ive gotten very into progressive christianity in the past year, and Ive joined the episcopalian church.....the reading Ive been doing has really inspired me...I recommend an Irresistablle Revolution by Shane Clayborne, anything by Philip Yancey, Greg Boyd, Brian Mclaren, Dallas Willard, Philip Gulley....these guys dont agree with each other on every point under the sun (far from it) but all are open, loving, dont call each other names, and see chriatianity in the most loving light possible.
  7. I love Philip Gulley! I havent read his fictional stuff, but I love the books "If love is real" and "If grace is true" (I may be getting the names confused, but I read them both) Im not 100 percent sure I agree with everything Gulley says, but I love his kindness, his loving understanding of God, his writing style - just everything! Zaidagal
  8. Hello Janet and thanks for your reply! For some reason, the note I sent back went without text....anyway....The way I see CS lewis's "inclusivism" is this - he made a few statements about "the door to heaven being wide open, and people choose to walk in or out" which is quite an expansive view. In the last book of the narnia series, a character gets into heaven without having followed Aslan - but Aslan makes some kind of statement "though you thought you were following another, you really were following me" (that is misquoted badly)...Finally, I believe CS Lewis came right out and said "Jesus is the way to God and Heaven...but HOW Jesus makes that happens is unknown...one might not have to have explicit belief in Jesus"...(again, I am paraphrasing big time)...additionally, he said quite often that "a religious mohammedan (muslim) is closer to me and my beliefs than a watered down christian believer"....basically Lewis is known for being both orthadox, but also having an inclusivist view of salvation.... I know Sayers and Lewis were friendly, lived in the same era, and both were great Christian apologists, and Im very curious as to whether Sayers ever spoke about salvation...
  9. Ive just noticed that all of the writers I love - Dallas Willard, Philip Yancey, Greg Boyd, Clarke Pinnock, Scott Peck - they all have been called heretics! I guess Im a heretic lover, lol! Seriously - how come anybody who has an interesting/new/thought provoking idea or interpretation, others have to scream "heretic" at them! It drives me nuts! Those are all the writers who have helped me to become a Christian, and stay a Christian! Id say thats a GOOD thing, not a heretical thing!
  10. Oh I like that statement "I dont want to become what I dont like"....I need to remember that for every walk of my life! Thanks for all of your comments and stories about your children. Alec is certainly giving me challenges with all of his questions...he wants to know what God looks like, what heaven looks like, etc etc....his questions remind me to be thoughtful, answer truthfully, but in a way he can understand...Im just waiting for my 3 year old, Arran, to start in as well! Im trying to explain to them the idea that we can "believe" without "knowing"....Ive told them both that many people believe in God in many different ways, use different names, etc....and that all we really "know" is that God is "love" and we have to spend our lives figuring out how to put that in action... One thing thats a challenge for me is that my husband is completely athiest....I may actually start a new topic, seeing if their are others dealing with this issue....and how have harmony in a home where the beliefs are so diverse!
  11. Hi everyone - Ive been following this very interesting discussion! I probably dont have anything wise to contribute, but just thought Id express a few thoughts. I kinda feel that we should "be" the changes we want to see in the Christian world...so that means accepting people even with fundamentalist views, who are exclusivist in their thinking/being....if they see "us" excluding others, then that makes us not that different from them in a way - you know what I mean?....I think the rule should be "respectful discourse" - rude comments will not be accepted - but all opinions (even exclusivist ones) will be read and considered - and then politely disagreed with! As long as someone comes with the right intent - interesting respectful conversation and learning from each other - they should be welcomed on this board. I think Im afraid of what I see in some of my liberal friends (and I am very liberal, politically and socially) - but I do have some friends who use their liberalism to exclude others - and I wouldnt want us going down that road. At the end of the day, many of us have very strong views/feelings about what it means to be a Christian, and who we are....and we want to be able to share that with others who maybe dont have our view....we want to share the oy we have found in being progressive christians!
  12. Hi everyone! My boys have started attending sunday school in the lovely episcopalian church I belong to. My 5 year old son also goes to "anchor boys" in a more conservative church (Im not thrilled with some of it but the folks are lovely and Alec has friends there)....He has been talking a lot about God. My 3 year old doesnt really talk about God yet. So, Im trying to find answers for Alec that are not too confusing, but also that are "real" answers. Ive tried to explain to him that in different countries people call God different names; he asked me what God looks like and I said nobody really knows - we just know he is full of love; he asks a lot about Heaven (he is worried about death) and I think he understands that our bodies die (shut down) but our "nice thoughts and love" go to God in heaven; he just asked me today "But does God make us get hurt? Like when we fall"? I cant believe it! Alec is 5 years old and has SUSSED the "problem of pain"! Its all very strange for me, because I grew up in an agnostic/athiest/new york liberal home, and we just didnt have these discussions. My parents were pretty against religion, and didnt really have or show any spirirutal beliefs (although they were and are lovely people, and taught us morals). Im worried about brainwashing my children! I want them to know a loving God, and experience a loving Church, but I also want them to be open to the fact that none of really "know" (theres a difference between belief and knowledge)....Ofcourse, my husband is an athiest so I suppose the boys will get influences from us both...any thoughts? Zaidagal
  13. Hello! And welcome to this board. Im pretty new to it, too....have you thought of trying the episcopalian church? I have truly found a "home" within this church! Its christian, beautiful service, communion every week, focus on Jesus, but there is a very open feeling, all ideas looked at and talked about, and most important, a real respect for people of other religions and other paths to finding God - it was very important to me to find a church that had this stance. I have heard from other people on this board that they found a home here, too. Ofcourse I realize there are many battles withing the anglican/episcopalian church, and many unresolved issues, but in terms of the service, the message my kids are getting at sunday school, and the open, loving feeling, its wonderful. Zaidagal
  14. I love that rivanna - what you wrote about "taking the Bible seriously (but not literally)"....you are right, there are so many worthwhile lessons in the Bible, and every time one reads it, something new is learned....and there is so much beauty, as well....
  15. Marsha - I agree with you, about longing for home...and I love the way Madeleine speaks of us getting "glimpses" of it and then it vanishes....I have a similar experience sometimes with my love for my children...sometimes I feel such an intensity but then I cant seem to "grasp" it if you know what I mean...its almost too much...I dont think Im expressing myself coherently!
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