Jump to content

Does God Have An Ego?


jerryb
 Share

Recommended Posts

I truly believe,that one of humanity's problems is our need to project our human attributes onto God.

We, of course, have an ego that must be constantly stroked and praised to make us feel that we are of value.

But if God has no ego.....why would He need our worship?

 

What do you think?

 

Jerry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is true that we project our own personalities onto God; a lot has been written about that ... and we do the same with other people.

 

Some people are able to withdraw those projections and see God in a clearer light and some are able to do the same in their relationships with other people. The conclusion then is that neither God nor humans require that aspect of the ego we find so objectionable. If we take the human ego as a narrowing of our consciousness and assume that God's consciousness is full and complete, then God would have no ego whatsover.

 

minsocal :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you look to the bible, both the old and new testaments show a God with an ego. Especially the old. :) .

 

I think that exemplifies the human experience of God. If seems to me that He wants us, or wouldn't have bothered (and probably sometimes wishes he hadn't) - but I don't think He needs our worship. It says more about our state of being than His, and that is likely to be pleasing to Him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It could be that there is some spillover here from the thread discussing "living in a matrix, and holographic projection".

 

Think of it as an "inside-outside" issue. If G-d is truly other and is wholly "outside" of our realities and experiences except for "mystical contacts", then Sh/He projects into our reality in some important ways from time to time where the boundaries are thin, and to those of us on the inside who are able to receive and interpret His/Her intents. I believe that's where art comes into the picture.

 

Since by experience we know that it requires ego to artistically and practically create our futures here, we surmise that G-d must, of necesssity, have ego in order to have started this reality and to have guided its development in time from the outside. If we are truly made in His/Her image and likeness, then we are of necessity a true reflection of the "outside" Creator, ego and all. This is where scalar holographic principles may come into play.

 

It relates to the fact that a grain of sand seen under magnification has the same fractal countours as do continental shorelines seen in satellite pictures, or why an electron miicroscopic image of the growth patterns of an oncogene ( cancer-causing cell) bear striking resemblances to the satellite photographs of earth's urban sprawls.

 

flow.... :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It could be that there is some spillover here from the thread discussing "living in a matrix, and holographic projection".

 

Think of it as an "inside-outside" issue. If G-d is truly other and is wholly "outside" of our realities and experiences except for "mystical contacts", then Sh/He projects into our reality in some important ways from time to time where the boundaries are thin, and to those of us on the inside who are able to receive and interpret His/Her intents. I believe that's where art comes into the picture.

 

Since by experience we know that it requires ego to artistically and practically create our futures here, we surmise that G-d must, of necesssity, have ego in order to have started this reality and to have guided its development in time from the outside. If we are truly made in His/Her image and likeness, then we are of necessity a true reflection of the "outside" Creator, ego and all. This is where scalar holographic principles may come into play.

 

It relates to the fact that a grain of sand seen under magnification has the same fractal countours as do continental shorelines seen in satellite pictures, or why an electron miicroscopic image of the growth patterns of an oncogene ( cancer-causing cell) bear striking resemblances to the satellite photographs of earth's urban sprawls.

 

flow....  :)

 

 

Hi Flow,

 

Do we know for sure that it ALWAYS requires ego to be artistic and creative? I don't yet know the answer to that question...but I'm intrigued by the possibility that there may be some examples of artistic creation without using ego.

Any more thoughts on this?

 

Jerry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JB

My experience and intuition tells me that while ideation and conception of artistic work often comes to the artist from other places or unidentifiable spiritual inspirations, there is still the execution of the work that is necessary.

 

One "feels" what is intended through the giving and receiving of the conception, and then is duty-bound to place the work in a form that is as pristine and revealing of that conception as possible. I cannot see how this process might be entered into with any motivation other than ego-driven desire to interpret the messages in as pure a form as possible, and to bring as high a level of technical skill as possible to the performance process, whether writing, art, drama, or music is involved.

 

It is the interpretive aspect that requires the application of energies that ego provides. That's the best I can do to describe the process from my experiences. It all is very hard work, the hardest I've ever done.

 

flow.... :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JB

My experience and intuition tells me that while ideation and conception of artistic work often comes to the artist from other places or unidentifiable spiritual inspirations, there is still the execution of the work that is necessary.

 

One "feels" what is intended through the giving and receiving of the conception, and then is duty-bound to place the work in a form that is as pristine and revealing of that conception as possible. I cannot see how this process might be entered into with any motivation other than ego-driven desire to interpret the messages in as pure a form as possible, and to bring as high a level of technical skill as possible to the performance process, whether writing, art, drama, or music is involved.

 

It is the interpretive aspect that requires the application of energies that ego provides. That's the best I can do to describe the process from my experiences. It all is very hard work, the hardest I've ever done.

 

flow....  :unsure:

 

 

Great post Flow,

 

I really like the part where you said,"to interpret the messages in as pure a form as possible". Wouldn't it be great if we ,as spiritual people,would use that same

diligence to express God's love in this present world?

 

Thanks for reminding us Flow,

 

Jerryb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With my portentious return, the contenious conversations being. Ok not really contentious, but I am hoping for some fun.

 

Cynthia - How do you read the Ot and see God as having an ego? I'm not entirely sure where you are going with that.

 

Everyone - We worship God because it is right and just. This used to be a part fo the Holy Mass and still sort of is. In the Tridentine rite of the Holy Sacrifice, the Priest says "Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro." (Let us give thanks to the Lord our God." and the people respond "Dignum et justum est." (It is right and just). In the rite of Paul VI the Priest says "Let us give thanks to the Lord our God" the people respond "It is right to give Him thanks and praise"

 

If anything the fact that God bothers with us at all, sent His Son to save us, forgives our sins, fills us with grace and hears our praise shows that God is the opposite of ego. He is self-emptying and other-fulfilling not for His good, but for ours. Therefore, the only just and right response to someone who gives themselves entirely for your good, especially at the expense of themselves is to be thankful and to express your thanks and appreciation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With my portentious return, the contenious conversations being.  Ok not really contentious, but I am hoping for some fun.

 

Cynthia - How do you read the Ot and see God as having an ego?  I'm not entirely sure where you are going with that.

 

Everyone - We worship God because it is right and just.  This used to be a part fo the Holy Mass and still sort of is.  In the Tridentine rite of the Holy Sacrifice, the Priest says "Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro." (Let us give thanks to the Lord our God." and the people respond "Dignum et justum est." (It is right and just).  In the rite of Paul VI the Priest says "Let us give thanks to the Lord our God" the people respond "It is right to give Him thanks and praise"

 

If anything the fact that God bothers with us at all, sent His Son to save us, forgives our sins, fills us with grace and hears our praise shows that God is the opposite of ego.  He is self-emptying and other-fulfilling not for His good, but for ours.  Therefore, the only just and right response to someone who gives themselves entirely for your good, especially at the expense of themselves is to be thankful and to express your thanks and appreciation.

 

 

 

 

James,

 

Thanks for your post. I agree with some of your remarks,but not this one"We worship God because it is just and right".

How do we KNOW that it is just and right? Thankfulness and worship are not exactly the same thing. To answer my own question,however,I do believe that perhaps the truest kind of worship would be our expression of 'profound gratitude' to God for all our blessings. Of course,that begs another question...how about the person who is,at present, going through what they feel is 'hell on earth'...should they feel worshipful?

What are your thoughts on that premise?

 

Blessings to you James,

 

Jerryb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see ego as sense of self - not pride - first of all. :)

 

God clearly gets angry and irritated with people in the OT. That isn't possible without a separate sense of self.

 

To both, worship is an act of love and also, esp. in bad times, an act of trust. "Give thanks in all circumstances" - "I have plans to prosper you not to harm you"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your insight Cynthia.

 

I was trying to get to just that sort of point in my convoluted explanation of conveying artistic messages into understandable and clear works to be shared amongst others. Of course it is the artist's respect for the self that motivates him/her to enter into a responsible activity, engaging all of his/her talents to transform the raw materials received from beyond into something that is understandable in the profane world. It is a responsibility to the self and to the muse/spirit that compels us to create, not pride.

 

flow.... :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the question might be: is the God of the OT the "real God", or is the God of the OT the best God they could come up with for their times? Since the God in the NT is often described quite differently, I think it is reasonable to assume that God did not change, just people's conception of God.

 

 

-des

 

 

I see ego as sense of self - not pride - first of all.  :)

 

God clearly gets angry and irritated with people in the OT.  That isn't possible without a separate sense of self.

 

To both, worship is an act of love and also, esp. in bad times, an act of trust.  "Give thanks in all circumstances" - "I have plans to prosper you not to harm you"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is reasonable to assume that God did not change, just people's conception of God.

 

 

Still true, even today! What would God look like if *we* wrote the next testament?

 

 

October.....I shudder at the thought of what God would look like if we wrote the 'Next Testament'....and of course, some day someone probably will.

Which brings up a good question: "if you were asked to tell a totally illiterate person the four most important things about God....what would you say?

 

Blessings

 

Jerry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is reasonable to assume that God did not change, just people's conception of God.

 

 

Still true, even today! What would God look like if *we* wrote the next testament?

 

 

October.....I shudder at the thought of what God would look like if we wrote the 'Next Testament'....and of course, some day someone probably will.

Which brings up a good question: "if you were asked to tell a totally illiterate person the four most important things about God....what would you say?

 

Blessings

 

Jerry

 

Why? All the "sacred" texts have been written by humans. The Hebrew Bible shows an evolution of belief of what God is like, so does the New Testament. I suspect the Koran does the same as do other texts like the Book of Mormon. It is an ever continuing process, knowing God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's been my opinion for about twenty years now that we are sorely in need of a "Next Testament" so that the varied beliefs in G-d that exist in the world may be reconciled somehow with the "progress" that humanity has made this past 2,000 years or so.

 

It becomes harder everyday to really believe in the older testaments that have taught us so well in the past. The children are having a difficult time embracing that knowledge because their real world experiences negate the contexts of the older testaments almost every day that they live into the future.

 

Maybe we're doing just that here on the board !

 

flow.... :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is reasonable to assume that God did not change, just people's conception of God.

 

 

Still true, even today! What would God look like if *we* wrote the next testament?

 

It's interesting that the 2nd century theologion/missionary , Marcion, rejected the OT altogether. One passage of the OT that bothered him was the instance where two young boys are mocking the prophet Elisha. God than allows two she-bears to come out and maul them to death (2nd Kings 2:23-24) . Marcion could not reconcile that with Jesus saying" let the children come unto me " He then developed an unusual theology of two Gods, the OT God and the "new" God presented by Jesus. His view is quite extreme and he was excomunicated and denounced as a heretic .

 

MOW

Edited by MOW
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would third Cynthia's awesome, but when the children look around them they see a whole lotta time-driven materialism, programmed behaviors, and lotsa, lotsa illusions of love.

 

How is the difference between the love that descends down to those of us who are able to perceive it and receive it from G-d and pass it on, and that which attacks them in the false images that they absorb each day, to be discerned by them other than by example? In the midst of news programs about domestic disturbances that turn into violent acts and real-life adults around them treating each other with deceit and disrespect, how are they to learn ?

 

Sorry to be the pessimist here. I guess older age automatically engenders cynicism. It seems that the younger generations and the older generations that are responsible for making a loving future happen are under attack on all sides by the forces of darkness. Any ideas about how we got here from the innocent old days I can remember? But then, I was younger then and was much more innocent. Maybe it's always been that way, innocence in youth and cynicism with age, and we just don't realize the truth of it all until we reach a certain age and level of experience.

 

And, just where did the two bears come out of ? The woods ? A cave ? And just what the devil were they doing before they came out to attack the children? Eating hallucinogenic berries and smoked salmon ? I believe, MOW, that the story Marcion focussed upon is fraught with unresolvable dependencies and contingencies, and THAT inevitably led to his downfall..

 

flow.... B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awww, come on flow - - - "innocent old days that I remember"????? You're not THAT old... reading the OT makes me realize that many of the issues then - deceiptful people who spout theology, politicians, bad people prospering while good seemingly don't - are all the same. I think it is a developmental stage - 40-60ish to see the world as going to hell in a handbasket. We have to take ourselves with a grain of salt just like we take teenagers, 2 y/os, etc. :P

 

Example, I agree, is the only way. Having a teenager sure keeps you honest!!!! They (along with their pre-adolescent siblings) are quick to gleefully point out ANY discrepancy between what you say and do. It does help the mindfulness. :blink::P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would third Cynthia's awesome, but when the children look around them they see a whole lotta time-driven materialism, programmed behaviors, and lotsa, lotsa illusions of love.

 

How is the difference between the love that descends down to those of us who are able to perceive it and receive it from G-d and pass it on, and that which attacks them in the false images that they absorb each day, to be discerned by them other than by example? In the midst of news programs about domestic disturbances that turn into violent acts and real-life adults around them treating each other with deceit and disrespect, how are they to learn ?

 

Sorry to be the pessimist here. I guess older age automatically engenders cynicism. It seems that the younger generations and the older generations that are responsible for making a loving future happen are under attack on all sides by the forces of darkness. Any ideas about how we got here from the innocent old days I can remember? But then, I was younger then and was much more innocent. Maybe it's always been that way, innocence in youth and cynicism with age, and we just don't realize the truth of it all until we reach a certain age and level of experience.

 

And, just where did the two bears come out of ? The woods ? A cave ? And just what the devil were they doing before they came out to attack the children? Eating hallucinogenic berries and smoked salmon ? I believe, MOW, that the story Marcion focussed upon is fraught with unresolvable dependencies and contingencies, and THAT inevitably led to his downfall..

 

flow.... B)

 

 

Well Flow...it seems that they might have been"smoking' the berries and salmon.

....Sorry....coludn't resist that one.

 

Blessings,

Jerry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

terms of service