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Is God Just? (reasonable...fair)


jerryb

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Hmmmmmm !

 

And I thought "Rumi" was someone you lived with at college.

 

A very wise person. I had not heard of this poet's work before. I'm more of the Gibran generation though.

 

But it is REALLY difficult to treat one's enemies with respect and love them for what they are and what they do. I know it's what true Christians are supposed to do, and try as I may I still find myself screaming bad stuff at them inside of my head and hoping that I don't have to deal with them ever again.

 

But then "stuff happens, things change" and as long as we are able to walk around and breathe, there is sometimes still hope.

 

flow.... :rolleyes:

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Ahhhhhh ! Another mystic. No wonder his work appeals to me and seems so ageless.

 

We hear alot about Shiite and Sunni Muslims, and mostly in negative ways, but almost never about the Sufis. Does anyone know if there is an active population of them these days, and if so why don't those of us with like tendencies hear from them every once in a while ?

 

flow.... :rolleyes:

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But it is REALLY difficult to treat one's enemies with respect and love them for what they are and what they do.

 

I find it very difficult to treat the "guests" Rumi spoke of with respect and love, because they are not visitors that I can see or touch. If they bother me, I cannot just toss them out the front door and "turning the other cheek" gets to be a bit tricky. :rolleyes:

 

They are visitors that arise within our hearts and within our minds: depression, meaness, shame, malice ... all are to be welcomed as a guest and invited in. They are to be treated honorably and listened to for the insight they might give from 'beyond.'

 

I know it's a challenge for me, and I am desperately trying see what "the visitors" might be pointing at, rather than looking at the visitors themselves.

Edited by AletheiaRivers
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"I know it's a challenge for me, and I am desperately trying see what "the visitors" might be pointing at, rather than looking at the visitors themselves."

 

 

Cool.... thanks for the ah ha!!!! I love to read Rumi, but haven't ever spent much time at it... perhaps this year. :) Any good sources anybody?

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I can't recommend any sources for sure, because I don't own any books of Rumi poetry.

 

BUT -- Barnes and Noble ALWAYS has Rumi at the front of the store on their "Spirituality" table. You know the one - with Hindu writings and books on yoga, Zen stuff, Knight's Templar stuff...

 

They are books that are published by B&N for about 1/2 the price of the original publisher, kind of like the "B&N Classics, and they are usually in hard cover.

 

For example: "The Essential Rumi" is around 15.00 I believe. From the B&N sale annex, it's 8.99.

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...&WRD=Rumi&brg=Y

Edited by AletheiaRivers
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Thanks! I even have a B& N giftcard from Christmas!

 

Hey - great new deal, speaking of paying for my book addiction! Coinstar (coin counting machines in grocery stores, etc) now have some machines that waive the counting fee (aobut 9%) if you change your change ( :P ) into a giftcard for amazon.com! I had $120 in a mayonaise jar! Found $ - too much fun!

 

Back on topic - I find meditating with a beginning in noticing (will try welcoming) my (unwelcome) visitors helps me to gain perspective. That observer thing.... I often end up laughing at myself and my... ummm... wretchedness (shudder). But somehow, that helps to separate it from me and improve my outlook.

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Thanks, Jerry, for this topic. At SPIRITUALITY & HEALTH I just found a short article called "Five Things We Cannot Change" by David Richo, a Buddhist > http://www.spiritualityhealth.com/NMagazin...icles.php?id=87

 

The 5 things are:

1. Everything changes and ends.

2. Things do not always go according to plan.

3. Life is not always fair.

4. Pain is part of life.

5. People are not loving and loyal all the time.

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I recently heard a feature on NPR regarding the Dervishes.

 

It seems that centuries of persecution by Muslims who are distrustful of mystic practices have harrassed the Sufi Dervishes to such an extent that the content of their formal whirling programs and chants has been gradually disappearing over the years. There are attempts underway to preserve what content is left and to recover and restore what is acccessable of the original rituals for future generations.

 

It makes one think about just how much of the mystic traditions in all religions have been thrown away just because that sort of connection with the spirit realm is so threatening to others who cannot make it. I believe that this is called jealousy. Very sad !

 

flow.... :(

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"I believe that this is called jealousy."

 

Or ENVY... one of the seven deadly, I believe  :)

 

I can't quite understand why they never make the papers like the "sexual" sins.

 

They don't make for good copy.

 

"Brad Pratt attended a Hollywood gala this weekend. Dressed in an Armani tuxedo, he was seen envying the woman sitting at the table next to him ..." :lol:

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LOL Ar!

 

Can you imagine what it would be like if we as a society implicitly or explicitly condemned the seven deadly sins???!!! I can't even reliably name them! (kinda like the dwarfs :lol: ). What if just greed, envy, and lust were embarrassing and shameful???? That would topple our culture in about 5 minutes... there wouldn't be anything left! :o (too early - need coffee before heading down this road!)

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Can you imagine what it would be like if we as a society implicitly or explicitly condemned the seven deadly sins???!!!  I can't even reliably name them!  (kinda like the dwarfs  :lol: ).  What if just greed, envy, and lust were embarrassing and shameful????  That would topple our culture in about 5 minutes... there wouldn't be anything left!

Superbia: Pride

Invidia: Envy/Jealousy

Ira: Anger/Wrath

Avaritia: Avarice/Greed

Acadia: Sloth/Laziness

Gula: Gluttony

Luxuria: Lust

 

It would be pretty wild if our culture actually regarded these as vices!

 

Here's an interesting article I just came across:

 

"The Tao of Pope St. Gregory the Great"

http://www.whitestonejournal.com/seven/dao.html

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I recently heard a feature on NPR regarding the Dervishes.

 

It seems that centuries of persecution by Muslims who are distrustful of mystic practices have harrassed the Sufi Dervishes to such an extent that the content of their formal whirling programs and chants has been gradually disappearing over the years. There are attempts underway to preserve what content is left and to recover and restore what is acccessable of the original rituals for future generations.

 

It makes one think about just how much of the mystic traditions in all religions have been thrown away just because that sort of connection with the spirit realm is so threatening to others who cannot make it. I believe that this is called jealousy. Very sad !

 

flow.... :(

 

READ > http://www.thefourprecepts.com/propublish/art.php?artid=73 < a short article by a modern presumably Sufi teacher.

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Fred:

 

I appreciated the whitestone journal article's blending of the Taoist and Christian precepts. Yes, as we grow older we are keenly more aware of the energy we tend to waste, and just what that means to our life force which collectively creates our futures.

 

And by the way, I always referred to the wu-wei principle as "doing-not doing". I have found that when we observe things that are inherently wrong and need fixing or correction and we know that we are not capable of the entire job, it often helps to wait and "not do" while we meditate and pray about the problem. Often it seems to magically disappear before our eyes.

 

MT:

 

I really enjoyed the article that you posted on Sufi philosophy. It seems so true, and for my money is one of the best depictions in symbolic form of how the spirit of G-d seems to come out of nowhere sometimes and alight inside of our hearts. It would be interesting to know if the Army Air Force borrowed upon this for their symbolism back in the day, but of course the red heart was/is absent from theirs, as it also is from Chrysler's and Bentley's.

 

At one time I was inspired to write some Haiku. Or perhaps something else directed me to write it. Whatever the truth of it, the circumstances surrounding my writing of about one hundred and four verses of it were strange and are something that I do not wish to go into here in any depth. But the last verse I received has always stuck in my heart and mind, though this happened some years ago.

 

"The Spirit, like the hummingbird, is attracted to the sweet redness of the heart,

While the crows sit in the trees and eat the dead meat in the road."

 

I also compulsively collect odd factiods. Did you know that the first area of the body affected by Parkinson's disease is a small area of 40,000 or so neurons that lie on top of and to one side of the heart? Not the brain, the heart !

 

flow.... ;)

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