PaulS Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Pipiripi said: But what about there is a God, and I don't believe? Isn't it better to believe in God? That is called Pascal's Wager and if you actually consider what you say, you will see there are a lot of problems with such a statement (i.e. if you're a Christian trying to prove a point): https://whistlinginthewind.org/2012/05/06/the-flaws-of-pascals-wager/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, PaulS said: That is called Pascal's Wager and if you actually consider what you say, you will see there are a lot of problems with such a statement (i.e. if you're a Christian trying to prove a point): https://whistlinginthewind.org/2012/05/06/the-flaws-of-pascals-wager/ This is the first time a have seen this statement. The conclusion is, better waisting my time believe in God, then waisting my time don't believing in nothing. Just following man teachings. Believe in a fantasy created by man between 200 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Pipiripi said: The conclusion is, better waisting my time believe in God, then waisting my time don't believing in nothing. Just following man teachings. Believe in a fantasy created by man between 200 years ago That is not a true faith response, just hedging your bet......... What fantasy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 47 minutes ago, Pipiripi said: The conclusion is, better waisting my time believe in God, then waisting my time don't believing in nothing. Just following man teachings. Believe in a fantasy created by man between 200 years ago I think you miss the point. The criticism of Pascal Wager's is that if you choose to apply it to the Christian God, then it begs the questions why don't you apply the same rationale to any other God? Essentially you are saying, better to believe in Allah than take a risk Allah doesn't exist. Better to believe in Zeus, Odin or Krishna, just in case they do exist. There are something like 3000 gods in the human experience to choose from. Christians don't believe in 2,999 of them - Atheists just deny one more God than traditional Christians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/27/2020 at 8:43 PM, PaulS said: I think you miss the point. The criticism of Pascal Wager's is that if you choose to apply it to the Christian God, then it begs the questions why don't you apply the same rationale to any other God? Essentially you are saying, better to believe in Allah than take a risk Allah doesn't exist. Better to believe in Zeus, Odin or Krishna, just in case they do exist. There are something like 3000 gods in the human experience to choose from. Christians don't believe in 2,999 of them - Atheists just deny one more God than traditional Christians. I mean what I say, it is better believe in an Almighty God Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ of NAZARETH, to believe in an ape man Charles Darwin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Pipiripi said: I mean what I say, it is better believe in an Almighty God Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ of NAZARETH, to believe in an ape man Charles Darwin. Some of us are very comfortable with both God/Jesus and Darwin: belief in Darwin's theory and a faith response to the God revealed in Jesus. Try it, you might like it. Also you might have misread Darwin, he is not an ape-man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elen1107 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Pipiripi said: I mean what I say, it is better believe in an Almighty God Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ of NAZARETH, to believe in an ape man Charles Darwin. I too believe in both. I believe in evolution into Christ. Christ is still every bit as much Christ and God is still every entire bit as much God. Just like people didn't need to know that the earth is round to believe in Christ and be saved, they/we didn't need to know the exact story of creation. It's not the end of faith and inspiration, and in some ways it may be a bit of a new start or beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Pipiripi said: I mean what I say, it is better believe in an Almighty God Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ of NAZARETH, to believe in an ape man Charles Darwin. Personally, I think you would probably benefit from understanding the science of evolution, but it's your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 8:59 PM, PaulS said: Personally, I think you would probably benefit from understanding the science of evolution, but it's your choice. If you can answered my question about evolution with an obvious details. Why not. Do you have seen on You Tube. The Atheist Delusion Movie (2016)? If not than there you find all my questions about evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 4:12 PM, Elen1107 said: I too believe in both. I believe in evolution into Christ. Christ is still every bit as much Christ and God is still every entire bit as much God. Just like people didn't need to know that the earth is round to believe in Christ and be saved, they/we didn't need to know the exact story of creation. It's not the end of faith and inspiration, and in some ways it may be a bit of a new start or beginning. God = BELIEVE Evolution = KNOWING WHAT MAN'S TEACHING IS, WITHOUT WAS IN THE PASSED. Christians don't have nothing to do with evolution. They cannot mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 4:00 PM, thormas said: Some of us are very comfortable with both God/Jesus and Darwin: belief in Darwin's theory and a faith response to the God revealed in Jesus. Try it, you might like it. Also you might have misread Darwin, he is not an ape-man. If it isn't Darwin, who was the first person that brought the ape man theory? Again, God who has created everything don't fit in the evolution story. Nobody can be both. Call you God a liar? Genesis 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 7/27/2020 at 8:09 PM, thormas said: That is not a true faith response, just hedging your bet......... What fantasy? Evolution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elen1107 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Pipiripi said: God = BELIEVE Evolution = KNOWING WHAT MAN'S TEACHING IS, WITHOUT WAS IN THE PASSED. Christians don't have nothing to do with evolution. They cannot mix. I live in a free country. Many Christians do mix Christianity and evolution. It's not a big problem here, or where I live This is why many people come to 'Progressive Christianity' because they don't want to do Christianity in old fundementalistic ways. One can mix science and Christianity. God is still God. Christ is still Christ. It's just that some of the things written about them, even in the bible, aren't all they are made up to be. The first Christians didn't have a bible. The books of the bible weren't written until everything that happened in them had already happened and were done and over with. Many people say that the books of the New Testament weren't written till even much later than that. You don't need a perfect book, the bible, for God and Christ to still be great and true and wonderful. They are all that and much more, with or without an absolutely perfect book being written about them. Edited August 4, 2020 by Elen1107 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 37 minutes ago, Pipiripi said: Christians don't have nothing to do with evolution. They cannot mix. There are many Christians who understand the science of evolution, but I think I understand why you can't at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Pipiripi said: God = BELIEVE Evolution = KNOWING WHAT MAN'S TEACHING IS, WITHOUT WAS IN THE PASSED. Christians don't have nothing to do with evolution. They cannot mix. Of course they can: belief in God and knowing about evolution. It's rather easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Pipiripi said: Evolution! ..........you think evolution is a fantasy and others think God is a fantasy - then there are those who accept both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 12 hours ago, thormas said: ..........you think evolution is a fantasy and others think God is a fantasy - then there are those who accept both. One have proof but the other doesn't. Evolution doesn't have any proof. Till today nothing has evolve. But people are still healing in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 12 hours ago, thormas said: Of course they can: belief in God and knowing about evolution. It's rather easy. I understand you much better now. But there is only one way for eternal life. And you know who have it. Both cannot give you eternal life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipiripi Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 20 hours ago, PaulS said: There are many Christians who understand the science of evolution, but I think I understand why you can't at present. You see!! You think, so it is your thinking. But BIBLICAL it doesn't be like the way that you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Pipiripi said: You see!! You think, so it is your thinking. But BIBLICAL it doesn't be like the way that you think. No I don't see. We all use our thinking - you think you understand the bible a certain way. That is your thinking. What you have not thought through in my opinion is that much of the bible is myth and storytelling, such as the stories of creation, made by people who had no idea of the universe and its unfolding. Science can now fill in that picture and it seems to me, only Christians who feel threatened by the science of our existence tend to deny it and grab hold of that literal bible even harder. I would encourage you to release your grip a little and try to be open-minded about evolution. That might help you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 49 minutes ago, Pipiripi said: I understand you much better now. But there is only one way for eternal life. And you know who have it. Both cannot give you eternal life. I agree that there is only one Way.............but it does not preclude one from accepting the theory of evolution. I'm not asking or expecting evolution to be a Way, it is simply a scientific take on the evolution of life on the planet. For me it does not have anything to do with my belief in God or my faith response to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 54 minutes ago, Pipiripi said: One have proof but the other doesn't. Evolution doesn't have any proof. Till today nothing has evolve. But people are still healing in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. In truth there is no proof for or against God: that is a matter of belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 On 8/3/2020 at 10:36 PM, Pipiripi said: If it isn't Darwin, who was the first person that brought the ape man theory? Again, God who has created everything don't fit in the evolution story. Nobody can be both. Call you God a liar? Genesis 1. Where is your proof that God wrote Genesis 1? What even makes you think it is literal? Show me the talking snake and tell me what kind of fruit grows on the tree of knowledge of good and evil so i might believe ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elen1107 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I think that science is the study of God. I think that we are supposed to, or can, evolve into eternity. How this fits in with traditional Christian scripture, I don't know. Sometimes it fits and sometimes it doesn't. I think we are supposed to/can experience God in all or most things. I think we can experience God and Christ in ourselves. One doesn't need a book, the bible for this. The bible can teach us about God and give us insights into God. It can also teach us things that are not about God and express ideas not with God. Science can also show us somethings that are not with God or in God. What one needs to do is use their own discernment and discretion and/or the spirit of God and Christ to understand and see which is which and what is what. If one is in God and in Christ, all this negative stuff just falls away and becomes relatively minor or even nonexistent, and one sees and experiences only God and Christ. But science and the cosmos still exist and they are not against God, in fact they are often very much a part of God. But God is still very much more than that. Thanks for reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thormas Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Elen1107 said: I think that science is the study of God. You lost me: is God an object or thing that can be studied as the objects of science are? Evolution is a natural process, meaning that the 'supernatural, i.e. God is not involved in a natural process (unless one is working from a theistic take on God). Is the evolution of man and woman into eternity also a natural process that does not need God? I'm not trying to be difficult but I think words matter and I don't know any Progressive or Liberal Christians who would define science as the study of God. And I think most people in the 21st C define evolution as a natural process so how does one evolve into eternity (which by definition is supernatural)? 49 minutes ago, Elen1107 said: If one is in God and in Christ, all this negative stuff just falls away and becomes relatively minor or even nonexistent, and one sees and experiences only God and Christ. But science and the cosmos still exist and they are not against God, in fact they are often very much a part of God. But God is still very much more than that. It could be said that Jesus was 'in God' in this way yet the negative did not fall away, he was crucified. Furthermore, his followers, also in Christ and in God, suffered hardship and death. It seems that being in God or Christ does not protect human beings from the negative in the world. Edited August 6, 2020 by thormas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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