The Deception of Evolution

[Pipiripi]

I'm amazed to see how this evolution deception is spreading throughout the churches today. Man in his quest to gain worldly knowledge is casting away the plain truth of God's Word and "thus saith the Lord" in favor of worldly wisdom. End times prophecy reveals we are living in the last days, so I suppose this kind of thing can be expected, as the Bible says: 

2 Timothy 4:3. And what is sound doctrine?....

Hebrews 4:3. Genesis 2:1-2. Exodus 20:11

We get two clear truths from the above verses. 1. If you believe in evolution, then you have to believe that this world CONTINUES to evolve throughout it's life. And yet God clearly states above that this world was FINISHED from the very foundation of creation. Therefore, if it was finished, then there can be no evolution. The physical and biological laws that govern the natural world were also finished. 

Also, 2. God said He made the heaven and earth in 6 DAYS, so why do we need to question it? No matter what man says in his "wisdom",  God has said that He created this world in 6 days. Now I expect unbelievers to question this, because they do not believe in God or the Bible. But for proffering Christians to question the authenticity of God's Word and to question the 6 day creation is beyond me. They are deceiving, pure and simple. As soon as you question the Word of God, you have allowed Satan to gain a foothold in your faith and before you know it your faith will be in pieces. 

1 Corinthians 3:19.

Do you see? God knew that man would come in his "wisdom" and question what God has said. But it is utter foolishness. 

Now many in the church are saying that the 6 could be 6 periods of time or 6 thousand years, as the Word of God says that a day with God is as a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8). Well, for starters, I believe the "day as a thousand years " statement is a prophetic one and in no way changes the 6 days of creation. And if God says a DAY in the creation account, then why can't we just believe that is what God meant, ONE DAY. Also, I believe God did something purposely to the creation order to dispel this kind of rubbish that man comes up with. What is the purpose of the sun? As without the sun, plant life would just die. Now take a look at this:

On the THIRD DAY, God created plant life (Genesis 1:12-13). 

On the FOURTH DAY, God created the sun (Genesis 1:16-19).

So if the "third day " was actually a thousand years or some other of time, then how could the plant life survive without the sun for this length of time? God didn't create the sun until the day AFTER the plant life. Go ask any worldly scientist and they will tell you how important the sun is for life exist on this earth. The fact is the heaven and earth was created in 6 actual days (24hr periods), which ties in fine with the DAY after plant life. 

The amazing thing is, the "scientist" who professing Christians believe in regards to "evolution" are the very same people who will tell you there is no God! And yet these Christians say that evolution could be thru just because the scientists say so. So if you go down this slippery path, it could also be thrue that there is no God right? Because that is what the scientists are saying also. Do you see how dangerous this is?

Friend, this world is coming to an end, the sign of the end times show how close we are to the second coming of Christ Jesus. Satan knows his time is short (Revelation 12:12), and his deceptions are increasing in strength. If we do not put our trust in the Word of God and stick to a plain "thus saith the Lord", then we will be in grave danger of being taken in by Satan's deceptions. Evolution being one of them!

One of the three angels messages in Revelation 14 points us to worship the Creator:

Revelation 14:6-7

This message is being said with a LOUD VOICE.  In other words  it's a very important message, which tells us to worship Him (God) that made heaven, and earth and the sea and the fountains of waters. Those words are taken from the fourth commandment, which says God created this earth in six days and rested the seventh day and blessed the seventh day as the sabbath. 

[Burl]

Yes and no.  

Darwin’s theory of natural selection is useful in understanding why species become extinct, and how varieties develop.  It is very useful in animal husbandry and agriculture.  This, like all good science,  is simply observing God in action.

Natural selection is not particularly useful in understanding biology above the species level where organisms cannot reproduce.  It is also not particularly useful in explaining the emergence of new biological structures.  

You are correct that the overgeneralization and backward extrapolation of natural selection into the pseudoscience improperly called evolution today is an error.  It is like saying one can feed sausage through the meat grinder backwards to produce pigs.
 

Piriripi, your post fails on both logical and biblical grounds.   Note that Peter states: “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (2 Pet. 3:8).

 

[JosephM]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

 Note that Peter states: “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (2 Pet. 3:8).

 

As Burl points out in his above post, a pure literal interpretation such as a day being 24 hours could even by the writings in the NT Bible indicate this is not to be taken literally. To discount science because of a literal interpretation of the Bible seems to me to be as inappropriate as discounting the Bible as an inspirational; book because of science.

[Burl]

1 hour ago, JosephM said:

As Burl points out in his above post, a pure literal interpretation such as a day being 24 hours could even by the writings in the NT Bible indicate this is not to be taken literally. To discount science because of a literal interpretation of the Bible seems to me to be as inappropriate as discounting the Bible as an inspirational; book because of science.

Well said.

[Pipiripi]

16 hours ago, Burl said:

Yes and no.  

Darwin’s theory of natural selection is useful in understanding why species become extinct, and how varieties develop.  It is very useful in animal husbandry and agriculture.  This, like all good science,  is simply observing God in action.

Natural selection is not particularly useful in understanding biology above the species level where organisms cannot reproduce.  It is also not particularly useful in explaining the emergence of new biological structures.  

You are correct that the overgeneralization and backward extrapolation of natural selection into the pseudoscience improperly called evolution today is an error.  It is like saying one can feed sausage through the meat grinder backwards to produce pigs.
 

Piriripi, your post fails on both logical and biblical grounds.   Note that Peter states: “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (2 Pet. 3:8).

 

I have a question, why did all the others apes man has starving out, but the monkeys are still alive? Who is the first man and woman? I know that my first parents are Adam and Eve. What about yours? My book of life have a beginning and an end. What about yours book? 

[PaulS]

I think the science of evolution is beyond dispute and is far more reliable than stories and myths developed by tribes of people who couldn't possible understand what evolution meant and how we, the human species, like all the other animal species,  came to evolve.  Adam and Eve are myths created to explain what those people couldn't possible understand at that point in our human story.  Now we know a lot better.  My book begins with the Big Bang and its ending is yet to unfold.

[JosephM]

5 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

I have a question, why did all the others apes man has starving out, but the monkeys are still alive? Who is the first man and woman? I know that my first parents are Adam and Eve. What about yours? My book of life have a beginning and an end. What about yours book? 

It seems to me when you say I know, you really mean 'you believe' because you read it in the Bible. It is fine if that is what you believe but how can you say you really know just because it is written in a book by men? Where is your evidence other than the circular logic to say the Bible is God's infallible word and all other books that say different are lies?

[Burl]

6 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

I have a question, why did all the others apes man has starving out, but the monkeys are still alive? Who is the first man and woman? I know that my first parents are Adam and Eve. What about yours? My book of life have a beginning and an end. What about yours book? 

God bless you, Piriripi.  I admire your faith and I am glad to know you.  I post on a phone so I rarely write long missives or cover more than a single point so feel free to follow up.  
 

The two different stories of Adam and Eve in Genesis are interesting to me for contemporary and non-historical reasons.

The biggest is why did God create Adam?   God has already created angels and other elohim, but he then creates an entirely different being out of physical clay.  This baffles me, and it is the single most important question posed by the creation of mankind.

Why are we here?  What does God want from us?

[PaulS]

11 hours ago, Burl said:

Why are we here?  What does God want from us?

This might help you understand a little, Burl.  And Piriripi, this seems to be a very interesting book that can allay any fears you have about evolution contradicting your Christianity.  It seems to me that Christians don't have to deny the science of evolution to feel connected to God.  Personally, I can only imagine that any such God would value human interest and science in their own understanding of the world rather than cling to writings of random people some thousands of years ago - people who also used to think the earth was flat.  Science has developed so much since those early days that we don't need to cling to such early understandings of the world because we prefer to choose their writings over a better understanding of our world in modern times.

https://progressivechristianity.org/resources/evolutions-purpose-an-integral-interpretation-of-the-scientific-story-of-our-origins-hardcover/

From the PC.org website: As biologist Terence Deacon observes, “To be human is to know what it feels like to be evolution happening.” This insight reveals how evolution is not outside of us or beyond us; we experience the impulse of evolution directly and regularly whenever we are motivated to improve our lives and help others. And because we can feel the evolutionary impulse within our own hearts and minds, we know accordingly from our own experience that evolution is inherently teleological and purposive. Thus, if we want to discover evolution’s purpose, we need only look within ourselves. Our purposes are its purposes.

[Burl]

I firmly believe that there is a spiritual, non-material component to the species Homo sapiens.

Yes, natural selection is a fact within species that can interbreed but that is absolutely not God.  

Natural selection is purely selfish.  It is the law of tooth and claw, not mercy and compassion.  It is eugenics, genocide and the biological selection of a master race.  All of these were justified by evolution, but they are very distant from God.

Morally, we need to examine our spiritual purpose and weigh the righteousness of our actions.  The bible helps us do that.  Natural selection does not.

 

[PaulS]

3 minutes ago, Burl said:

I firmly believe that there is a spiritual, non-material component to the species Homo sapiens.

Yes, natural selection is a fact within species that can interbreed but that is absolutely not God.  

Natural selection is purely selfish.  It is the law of tooth and claw, not mercy and compassion.  It is eugenics, genocide and the biological selection of a master race.  All of these were justified by evolution, but they are very distant from God.

Morally, we need to examine our spiritual purpose and weigh the righteousness of our actions.  The bible helps us do that.  Natural selection does not.

 

I am not so prepared to state what is and what is not of God.  That to me seems a very human tendency - to think that we understand God so well as to declare what such a God would or wouldn't do.  

Natural selection is only 'selfish' if you apply your very human emotion to it.  Rather it seems to me to be a process that is totally without emotion.  It is a process that reacts to the environment, without choice.  It unfolds if you will, the way it will unfold.  Of course, emotions such as selfishness also belong in the category of eugenics, genocide and biological section of a master race - again, all very human emotive traits and hardly an unemotional approach such as natural selection.

But as you would also be aware, natural selection is only one element of evolution and by no means is it a take it or leave it proposition concerning evolution.  The bible may well help you and others examine a spiritual purpose and weigh your righteousness in a world you judge accordingly.  Understanding science better can help take the emotion out of it and help people ask better questions and gain a better understanding of how we have gotten to this point as a species, and where we are going.

[Burl]

Paul, discarding our personal human tendencies    and replacing them with the mind of Christ is the essence of salvation.
 

[PaulS]

7 hours ago, Burl said:

Paul, discarding our personal human tendencies    and replacing them with the mind of Christ is the essence of salvation.
 

Thinking you need to be saved from something and that the only way out is to replace you natural being with something that doesn't come natural, does seem to be a common understanding among those that feel the need for religion.  Once upon a time people barbecued sheep and sacrificed other people to satiate what they thought their God needed but thankfully (maybe) as humans have developed they have more or less grown out of those nasty traditions.

But sticking with the topic of evolution - do you think this need for salvation (from whatever it is you think homo sapiens need to be saved from ) existed when homo sapiens were 'lesser' animals, before they evolved to the species they are today?

[Burl]

An Australian who thinks barbecued sheep is a nasty tradition?  Heresy!  That’s good Tucker, Mate! 🤗

I know of zero scientific evidence for any species ever evolving from another species.  Perhaps you know of an example where this has been scientifically proven?

It doesn’t offend me that you feel my need for religion is a nasty tradition, but this forum is organized around spiritual evolution, particularly as taught by Jesus, so you need to expect my interest here to lean in that direction.  Jesus is pretty much my viewpoint for the entirety of existence.

I respect your belief in scientism.  If you could deepen my understanding of your spiritual path that would be great.

[JosephM]

11 minutes ago, Burl said:

 

I know of zero scientific evidence for any species ever evolving from another species.  Perhaps you know of an example where this has been scientifically proven?

(snip)

"Every plant or animal belongs to a species. A species is a population of plants or animals that can breed to produce offspring that can then produce offspring themselves. Biologists believe that new species evolve from existing species by a process called natural selection. Here's how it works. Genes are chemical structures in the cells of the organism. The nature of the organism is determined by its genes. The organism inherits the genes from its parents. Occasionally a gene changes accidentally. That's called a mutation. The changed gene is passed on to the next generation. Most mutations are bad, but some of them make the organism more successful in its life. Organisms that inherit that favorable new gene are likely to become more abundant than others of the species."

"Critics of evolution often fall back on the maxim that no one has ever seen one species split into two. While that's clearly a straw man, because most speciation takes far longer than our lifespan to occur, it's also not true. We have seen species split, and we continue to see species diverging every day."

An example can be read at this site.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-watching-speciation-occur-observations/

[Burl]

Thank you, Joseph.  I did not know that.

[Burl]

Link to American Scientific Affiliation, a group involved in reconciling science and Christianity.

https://network.asa3.org
 

There is an interesting testimony by their magazine editor in the current CT (free).

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/march/sy-garte-science-answers-inconvenient-questions.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=4371187&utm_content=698410371&utm_campaign=email

[PaulS]

10 hours ago, Burl said:

I know of zero scientific evidence for any species ever evolving from another species.  Perhaps you know of an example where this has been scientifically proven?

So now you know of the scientific evidence that demonstrates species evolving, I'll ask again - do you think this need for salvation (from whatever it is you think homo sapiens need to be saved from ) existed when homo sapiens were 'lesser' animals, before they evolved to the species they are today?  

Quote

It doesn’t offend me that you feel my need for religion is a nasty tradition, but this forum is organized around spiritual evolution, particularly as taught by Jesus, so you need to expect my interest here to lean in that direction.  Jesus is pretty much my viewpoint for the entirety of existence.

I do expect your interests to lean in the direction of spiritual evolution, as do mine here.  All I am asking you is to substantiate some of your claims along the way.  That is what debate and dialogue is about.

Quote

I respect your belief in scientism.  If you could deepen my understanding of your spiritual path that would be great.

I don't believe in scientisim - I believe in substantiated facts.  Beliefs and unsubstantiated claims are a different kettle of fish.  I don't think you could grasp my spiritual path Burl because you are so ensconced in yours and anything said to the contrary is usually ridiculed by you.  I sincerely doubt you would genuinely contemplate anything I said that seemed contrary to your beliefs, so to me it seems a waste of my time.

[PaulS]

4 hours ago, Burl said:

Link to American Scientific Affiliation, a group involved in reconciling science and Christianity.

https://network.asa3.org
 

There is an interesting testimony by their magazine editor in the current CT (free).

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/march/sy-garte-science-answers-inconvenient-questions.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=4371187&utm_content=698410371&utm_campaign=email

I specifically remember giving a presentation to a class when I was 17 years of age on why evolution was false, based entirely on the evidence provided in Christianity Today!  I remember their tagline which I used in my conclusion - "All of the evidence for evolution could fit into nothing larger than a coffin"!  Oh how smug I was in the knowledge that my belief was right and supported by the likes of CT.  Here was the confirmation bias I required to support my position.  How times change when we objectivity challenge our beliefs and perhaps even consider the existence of new evidence that we didn't think actually existed before!

[Burl]

19 minutes ago, PaulS said:

I specifically remember giving a presentation to a class when I was 17 years of age on why evolution was false, based entirely on the evidence provided in Christianity Today!  I remember their tagline which I used in my conclusion - "All of the evidence for evolution could fit into nothing larger than a coffin"!  Oh how smug I was in the knowledge that my belief was right and supported by the likes of CT.  Here was the confirmation bias I required to support my position.  How times change when we objectivity challenge our beliefs and perhaps even consider the existence of new evidence that we didn't think actually existed before!

Evidently you did not go to the links.

[Burl]

34 minutes ago, PaulS said:

So now you know of the scientific evidence that demonstrates species evolving, I'll ask again - do you think this need for salvation (from whatever it is you think homo sapiens need to be saved from ) existed when homo sapiens were 'lesser' animals, before they evolved to the species they are today?  

I do expect your interests to lean in the direction of spiritual evolution, as do mine here.  All I am asking you is to substantiate some of your claims along the way.  That is what

35 minutes ago, PaulS said:

So now you know of the scientific evidence that demonstrates species evolving, I'll ask again - do you think this need for salvation (from whatever it is you think homo sapiens need to be saved from ) existed when homo sapiens were 'lesser' animals, before they evolved to the species they are today?  

I do expect your interests to lean in the direction of spiritual evolution, as do mine here.  All I am asking you is to substantiate some of your claims along the way.  That is what debate and dialogue is about.

I don't believe in scientisim - I believe in substantiated facts.  Beliefs and unsubstantiated claims are a different kettle of fish.  I don't think you could grasp my spiritual path Burl because you are so ensconced in yours and anything said to the contrary is usually ridiculed by you.  I sincerely doubt you would genuinely contemplate anything I said that seemed contrary to your beliefs, so to me it seems a waste of my time.

I guess we will just have to leave this here then. 

[PaulS]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

Evidently you did not go to the links.

Evidently, you have based your assumption on a lack of evidence.  I visited and read both links.

[PaulS]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

I guess we will just have to leave this here then. 

I guess we will, if you choose not to stay on topic (evolution) and discuss the question at hand - do you think this need for salvation (from whatever it is you think homo sapiens need to be saved from ) existed when homo sapiens were 'lesser' animals, before they evolved to the species they are today?  After all, this is a thread concerning evolution's falseness or otherwise and I think it is only reasonable to discuss those questions around it. Unless of course genuine interest is not your desire and only acceptance of your view perhaps is.

If you genuinely have an interest in deepening your understanding of my spiritual path, then feel free to start another thread on the matter and I will discuss further with you.  I am more than happy to in a separate thread, but again, I have my suspicions that you have no genuine interest in an open and sharing discussion.  Maybe you will surprise me.

 

[Burl]

2 hours ago, PaulS said:

I guess we will, if you choose not to stay on topic (evolution) and discuss the question at hand - do you think this need for salvation (from whatever it is you think homo sapiens need to be saved from ) existed when homo sapiens were 'lesser' animals, before they evolved to the species they are today?  After all, this is a thread concerning evolution's falseness or otherwise and I think it is only reasonable to discuss those questions around it. Unless of course genuine interest is not your desire and only acceptance of your view perhaps is.

If you genuinely have an interest in deepening your understanding of my spiritual path, then feel free to start another thread on the matter and I will discuss further with you.  I am more than happy to in a separate thread, but again, I have my suspicions that you have no genuine interest in an open and sharing discussion.  Maybe you will surprise me.

 

2 hours ago, PaulS said:

I have only a passing interest in speculating if God created man by using evolution.  I am not an anthropologist and 200k years is a terribly long time ago.

I am interested in the bible as one of our oldest literary creations and the cornerstone of our civilization.  I want to read it as accurately and as deeply as possible and try to determine what information those people who lived only 5k years ago intended to be preserved and passed on to me.  That is something I can confidently achieve.

How should I treat others?  How can I maintain and increase a conscious connection with God?  What pleasures seem attractive but turn into vices and lead into degeneracy and desperation?  How can I uplift others?  How can I live  fulfilled & content, and how can I face death without fear?

Those are some of my interests, and natural selection does not provide a source of inspiration.

Or  -  if it might  -  how?   What inspiration do you draw from that well?
 

The Hammer of Freedom

[Pipiripi]

On 2/20/2020 at 8:59 AM, Burl said:

God bless you, Piriripi.  I admire your faith and I am glad to know you.  I post on a phone so I rarely write long missives or cover more than a single point so feel free to follow up.  
 

The two different stories of Adam and Eve in Genesis are interesting to me for contemporary and non-historical reasons.

The biggest is why did God create Adam?   God has already created angels and other elohim, but he then creates an entirely different being out of physical clay.  This baffles me, and it is the single most important question posed by the creation of mankind.

Why are we here?  What does God want from us?

My brother Burl, God have send me here only for one reason. To show the world how much He loves us. 

Why we are here?

My brother if you read Genesis 1:26-27, you see what was God plan. In Genesis 3:8, you will see that every evening God is in the garden with Adam and Eve. 

God want us to live forever with Him. For that reason He has created us. He didn't create a bundle of robots that He programmed for obey Him. 

When sin entered the world, God has already a plan for saving His creation. Look what God said to the prophet Jeremiah. Jeremiah 1:4-5.

God have seen us already before He created this world. 

I want you to see this movie on YouTube. 

The Atheist Delusion Movie (2016) HD. Living Water.

Let me know what do you think of it. God bless you all.