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Killing of Iranian General - 3 Jan 2020


PaulS
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I wonder how people here view the killing of Iranian General Qasem Soleimani,  PMF Deputy-head Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, other members of the PMF, and possibly other collateral damage (people) carried out by the US in a drone strike on Iraqi soil on 3 Jan 2020?

Clearly there is an argument from the US government that these killings were deserved and also prevented further harm to US citizens otherwise to be caused by these blokes.  And there is a counter-argument from Iran that this was a terrorist act/act of war by the US, on a much-loved son of Iran.

I'm not sure if we have any Quakers on here who I presume would generally be against any killing whether in war or otherwise, but how do others view this incident.  Justified?  Murder?  Christian?  Other?

What say ye?

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I read a little from both sides. It had to be a serious decision as the stakes are high. It seems to me a lot of the opposition here is partisan banter. I really don't have the full picture so i just have to trust that those in charge and involved know the facts, what they are doing, and have made and are making  wise decisions with the data they have. At least until i am convinced otherwise...

Joseph

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6 minutes ago, JosephM said:

I read a little from both sides. It had to be a serious decision as the stakes are high. It seems to me a lot of the opposition here is partisan banter. I really don't have the full picture so i just have to trust that those in charge and involved know the facts, what they are doing, and have made and are making  wise decisions with the data they have. At least until i am convinced otherwise...

Joseph

The decision came from a man known as a counter puncher and one who has sent many tweets disparaging his own intelligence agencies. It is also known that he has been in a flame war with the man he had killed and doesn't like to be insulted. None of us have a full picture of what's going on because everything is hidden under the cloak of National Security or Executive Priviledge. As for those in charge making wise decisions and knowing facts when they brag about using alternative facts and not having time for reading intelligence reports but rely on their gut feel, I can't have any confidence in them. This is not partisan banter, just facts. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

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I don’t know.  Those killed were professional warriors who profited off the deaths of others and accepted the costs so the ‘murder’ charge is hyperbole. 
The propaganda screech-o-meters are blasting away, so it’s too soon for me to have an opinion.

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3 hours ago, JosephM said:

i just have to trust that those in charge and involved know the facts, what they are doing

My problem with this is, I have seen little evidence of this.

Why (what are the causes) now?

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3 minutes ago, romansh said:

My problem with this is, I have seen little evidence of this.

Why (what are the causes) now?

As i said i don't have the full picture.... so hope and trust is all i have. I can't answer the question "why now" and anything said by those not in the know seems to me would only be assumptions. There is no shortage of those critical of what transpired but i haven't heard from anyone yet that was past just assumptions.

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My point Joseph is that I have seen little to inspire confidence regarding this Presidency, I too hope there are sage reasons behind this event and I also hope there has been plenty wise thought given to the consequences and contingencies. But my hope is pessimistic.

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16 minutes ago, romansh said:

My point Joseph is that I have seen little to inspire confidence regarding this Presidency, I too hope there are sage reasons behind this event and I also hope there has been plenty wise thought given to the consequences and contingencies. But my hope is pessimistic.

Thanks, My hope is as yours  (that "there are sage reasons behind this event and I also hope there has been plenty wise thought given to the consequences and contingencies")  except that mine is optimistic rather than pessimistic.

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On 1/5/2020 at 2:42 AM, romansh said:

...my hope is pessimistic.

 

On 1/5/2020 at 3:03 AM, JosephM said:

...mine is optimistic rather than pessimistic.

Interesting article here discussing the shortcomings of both optimism and pessimism! :)

https://liberationist.org/the-bright-and-dark-sides-of-optimism-and-pessimism/

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Quote

Calling people — yourself included — either optimistic or pessimist gets them stuck. It forces us to adopt one view rather than switching between them as necessary.

I think this is the operative sentence. 

I see little if anything to be optimistic about regarding Trump. But then he could not be otherwise as nor I. 

Taken all together the universe is just fine neither good nor evil, just some eddies we perceive as positive or negative.

When you find your glass half empty, it's time to get another round in.

Edited by romansh
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Yes, the author has a point. We do switch between them as necessary. Labeling people one or the other seems to me like labeling all Christians the same. But related to the thread question at hand my hope remains optimistic as i see no benefit from a pessimistic hope at our level of influence and the partial picture we see.

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8 hours ago, JosephM said:

...i see no benefit from a pessimistic hope at our level of influence and the partial picture we see.

I think your view may be a little pessimistic in that you think 'your level' has no influence! :)

You vote don't you?  Politicians do respond to voter demands even before elections.  A pessimistic view could drive one to ask more questions and demand more answers and thus ensure the picture being provided is accurate.

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2 hours ago, PaulS said:

I think your view may be a little pessimistic in that you think 'your level' has no influence! :)

You vote don't you?  Politicians do respond to voter demands even before elections.  A pessimistic view could drive one to ask more questions and demand more answers and thus ensure the picture being provided is accurate.

You really think the democrats would listen now even if i had a clear picture! 🙂🙂

I guess I'm just not as well informed as you guys in Australia that read all our fake news. :):):)😛

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17 minutes ago, JosephM said:

You really think the democrats would listen now even if i had a clear picture! 🙂🙂

I guess I'm just not as well informed as you guys in Australia that read all our fake news. :):):)😛

No, it's only you guys that get the fake news - our media here are beyond reproach and would never sensationalize or misreport a story! 🙄

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Ukraine Airlines PS 752 fiasco is fallout from the general's assassination.

Anyway last week I was listening to a cartoonist (Bruce MacKinnon) about PS 752, and as he described his cartoon on CBC radio it reminded me of the apparently causal nature of the universe, which in turn prompted me to write a piece for my blog … Connectivity

In a nutshell … the downing of the airliner was not Trump's fault, but without his actions it would most likely not have happened.

Edited by romansh
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