No self? Then who or what is doing the seeking?

[JosephM]

It seems to me it is helpful to realize that there is no i identity that is seeing, seeking or doing anything but rather an impersonal aspect of consciousness doing the exploring. 

I see the mind and its contents as a product of the world.Thoughts come in streams and are to me not personal and for that matter neither is the body. Both are a product of the temporal world. If the mind is closely observed for some length of time it is my experience that one will realize that one is the witness and experiencer of the mind and its thoughts and body senses only rather than being the body or mind itself. It breaks the identification of self with mind as i. This seems to move the point of observation from what is being witnessed to that of witnessing. This leads to a realization that the experiencing is not being done by a who or a what or someone ( self) but rather that something is functioning as an impersonal observer/experiencer which is unchanged by the content of that which is experienced.  The contents of the mind is form but to be visible it has to occur against a background of non-form just as sound must be against a background of silence. to be perceived. The background seems to me to be a field of consciousness and is formless. It is illuminated by light which we might call pure awareness or God.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by JosephM
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[PaulS]

I think I see where you're coming from Joseph.  But why do you think this is not a natural occurrence for everyone.  Why do you think people have to 'develop' this 'ability'?  It seems to me that if this was 'real' that it should be a natural state of things.  So I question whether your point is a reality (which I"m sure it is for you) or is it a way of thinking you have developed yourself and now fits for you personally as reality.  Please, I ask this with respect as trying to understand and do not mean to insult if it at all seems that way.

[possibility]

I'm also familiar with this experience, Joseph - and there was a time when I thought that simply recognising the act of witnessing or observing rather than being the body or mind itself was enough.

 

But a bunch of tough questions hit me at that point, that perhaps best starts with: okay, where to from here? 

 

Is it a case of rejecting the temporal world as illusion, dismissing thoughts and body senses, and aiming to return to the oneness that is pure awareness? If so, then why is consciousness in the temporal world to start with? Or is it the temporal world in the field of consciousness? (Sorry, I'm not clear on your description)

 

Or do we resume our place in this temporal world and aim to guide the rest of consciousness to recognise this oneness with us? If this is the case, then what are we expecting to happen in the amazing event that we do accomplish this global sense of unity in consciousness? What does this accomplishment look like in the temporal world? How does it work? And will we have enough time to achieve it, or is the 'lure' of the temporal world working against us?

 

So what I'm really asking is: What is the ongoing nature of the relationship between pure awareness (God), the temporal world and this field of consciousness?

[JosephM]

18 hours ago, PaulS said:

I think I see where you're coming from Joseph.  But why do you think this is not a natural occurrence for everyone.  Why do you think people have to 'develop' this 'ability'?  It seems to me that if this was 'real' that it should be a natural state of things.  So I question whether your point is a reality (which I"m sure it is for you) or is it a way of thinking you have developed yourself and now fits for you personally as reality.  Please, I ask this with respect as trying to understand and do not mean to insult if it at all seems that way.

I don't think people have to do anything. I believe it is an evolutionary occurrence . It is there already for everyone but it's realization is not. Perhaps one could say at this time it appears  a good portion of humanity is asleep and in the process of awaking.

I don't think i have developed anything for myself. It seems to be there and is in my experience more a finding of that which has always been there. Nothing has really changed except you could say there is no one here seeking anything anymore and just a deeper peace present that was not experienced in earlier years.

[JosephM]

15 hours ago, possibility said:

I'm also familiar with this experience, Joseph - and there was a time when I thought that simply recognising the act of witnessing or observing rather than being the body or mind itself was enough.

 

But a bunch of tough questions hit me at that point, that perhaps best starts with: okay, where to from here? 

 

Is it a case of rejecting the temporal world as illusion, dismissing thoughts and body senses, and aiming to return to the oneness that is pure awareness? If so, then why is consciousness in the temporal world to start with? Or is it the temporal world in the field of consciousness? (Sorry, I'm not clear on your description)

 

Or do we resume our place in this temporal world and aim to guide the rest of consciousness to recognise this oneness with us? If this is the case, then what are we expecting to happen in the amazing event that we do accomplish this global sense of unity in consciousness? What does this accomplishment look like in the temporal world? How does it work? And will we have enough time to achieve it, or is the 'lure' of the temporal world working against us?

 

So what I'm really asking is: What is the ongoing nature of the relationship between pure awareness (God), the temporal world and this field of consciousness?

I guess the difference if any is there are no more questions so to speak. There is no "where to" from here also. There is nothing to accomplish and there is nothing wrong with the world. Yes , it appears I still feed the poor, support orphans, recycle recyclables, drive an electric car etc. but those are just things that happen as a consequence of consciousness. I am doing nothing.

There is no relationship in absolute realty because to have a relationship there must be subject and object.  It is the self that is creating the confusion and tough questions you mention and it is as you have already experienced but an illusion.

Joseph

 

[possibility]

Again, I get where you're coming from. There really is no need to 'do' anything at all.

And yet, there is still interaction with the temporal world. These interactions that feed the poor, support orphans, recycle recyclables, drive an electric car, etc - they aim to minimise impact and reduce suffering in recognition of the significance of these structures that are nevertheless illusion. There is no 'I' that accomplishes this, and yet there are structures that enable these interactions to occur and for such interactions to be communicated to those areas of consciousness that may be 'still asleep'. 

It seems like a matter of 'going with the flow' for you now. I don't know if you have any ties to the temporal world by way of work, marriage or family commitments, or if they share your perspective, but this has been an interesting journey to take with a husband and two young children.

There is a recognition that my obligation to these three human beings above all others is illusion, but also that a commitment to them is very real from their perspective. It creates a situation that must be handled carefully in order to minimise impact and reduce suffering.

I guess that's where I'm coming from. In the words of Joseph Campbell:

Quote

"The return and reintegration with society, which is indispensable to the continuous circulation of spiritual energy into the world, and which, from the standpoint of the community, is the justification of the long retreat, the hero himself may find the most difficult requirement of all. For if he has won through, like the Buddha, to the profound repose of complete enlightenment, there is danger that the bliss of this experience may annihilate all recollection of, interest in, or hope for, the sorrows of the world; or else the problems of making known the way of illumination to people wrapped in economic problems may seem too great to solve." (Joseph Campbell, 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces')

 

[JosephM]

9 hours ago, possibility said:

Again, I get where you're coming from. There really is no need to 'do' anything at all.

And yet, there is still interaction with the temporal world. These interactions that feed the poor, support orphans, recycle recyclables, drive an electric car, etc - they aim to minimise impact and reduce suffering in recognition of the significance of these structures that are nevertheless illusion. There is no 'I' that accomplishes this, and yet there are structures that enable these interactions to occur and for such interactions to be communicated to those areas of consciousness that may be 'still asleep'. 

It seems like a matter of 'going with the flow' for you now. I don't know if you have any ties to the temporal world by way of work, marriage or family commitments, or if they share your perspective, but this has been an interesting journey to take with a husband and two young children.

There is a recognition that my obligation to these three human beings above all others is illusion, but also that a commitment to them is very real from their perspective. It creates a situation that must be handled carefully in order to minimise impact and reduce suffering.

I guess that's where I'm coming from. In the words of Joseph Campbell:

 

Yes , there may or may not be interaction. For me there is. Retired and living in The Villages Fl. Just celebrated my 50th wedding anniversary with wife and grown children and grandkids and 1 great grandchild and another on the way. We are here in Hilton Head South Carolina for a week.  Leaving tomorrow. Wife and children do not share my perspective but that is not a problem. From my perspective, there seems to be nothing to sell. Each in their own time so to speak. Whatever unfolds , unfolds, and the dance continues.

Each to the portion which one has been given. It seems to me Joseph Campbell has created his own danger that doesn't exist as i read his words. When the consciousness of what appears as a single individual is lifted, all are affected by that energy field (level) even without perceived interaction.  Of course this will appear proposterous to one who might believe we are not connected without visible interaction.

Edited July 20, 2018 by JosephM
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