The God User Interface

[fatherman]

Faterman, I like your picture centered in nature, you being natural so nature is centered in you. This is a great thread that can only be termed crap if you are referring to it fertilizing the vast insights people have graciously volunteered.

 

I like your analogy of our mind being the computer, the applications being our beliefs that allow us to perform specific tasks. It seems once we open an application, it runs inside the operating system of our mind until we close it or upgrade it. The symbolic apps of religion work if our ego-centric consciousness is directed from the external contemplation of God as a separate object to the interior of our being where we become conscious that we are inside God. The app I like and am getting use to is the one that lives in the cloud not installed in my mind so I don't have to install anything the soul came with my being.

 

The cloud of pure consciousness in which we are involved is composed of energy, frequency, vibration, light and color, consequently our soul is a rainbow of colors in God’s ocean. From the soul’s perspective it is not words that communicate, but the vibrations behind them that are felt and if the frequency is sympathetic the souls dance making available the feelings of peace and harmony. In our soul I feel we can find all the secrets of the universe, the vibrations in God’s cloud of pure consciousness because the soul strives to understand the multitude of vibrations while our ego consciousness uses words to be understood. It is our choice to identify with the awesome reality deep within or with our mind that creates short-lived realities as it submerges sorrows below the surface. We all have different operating systems put together at different locations with different histories and experiences so we can help each other, but we can't tell someone the way to the cloud and beyond, only relate our experience. Thanks for starting this topic............

Ok. Maybe it's not crap! Sometimes it is difficult for me to tell. My brain doesn't always work straight, and I don't see it until later. The cloud is a great idea to consider. The cloud to the end user is nebulous. But the reality is that it is a network of computers with a front loader which routes our requests to the individual server which is freed up to handle it. That may be where the analogy breaks down. Perhaps you can do something with that. If God is the cloud, then yes it is not in our mind. It's knowledge and capability is vast beyond the scope of our OS.

[soma]

Developing an analogy

 

I would venture to say more than half of us Americans would say we never use cloud computing, but we do use it through banking, shopping, storing media and networking. The cloud is nebulous resembling a nebula, a cloud of dust, hydrogen, helium and other ionized gases that is why our images and words about God are just metaphors for the real thing. The words cloud computing explain a host of different online based services just like God explains different dynamisms, strengths and weaknesses we can’t explain with words. “The heavens declare the glory of God.” (Psalm 19:1)

 

We are a combination of forces held together like a nebula made in the image and likeness of God. These energies, powers, influences and intensities that hold us together can’t be seen, but they can be felt pushing and pulling us in a direction, we call evolution. Our scars demonstrate that we are free and more extensive than our problems, more resilient than our pain and that we go beyond our past to discover that everything is worked out even if we are not aware of it. Many people think the word cloud is weather related and that cloudy interferes with the sun shining upon us demonstrating that people in a cloud, disconnected from the truth or just pretending to know it will vocalize their nebulous definition as the truth. As a Christian I notice many priest, ministers and individuals preaching a truth they can’t grasp and are not aware that people don’t trust them because they don’t see Christ residing in them.

 

Some may polarize energy and manipulate the masses with tension, fear and division, but that is their choice between the energy of love and the energy of fear. Freedom of choice means we have the free will to center in whatever energy we choose. We have the power to make our own choices to act on our preferences with the conditions presented to us. For example, I am given the energy to play the sax or go for a walk. We can’t blame God if I make horrible noises and bother my neighbors with the sax, it is my choice. God might have preferred for me to go for a walk because of the disturbance of my neighbors so they would be right to blame me and not God. It is logical that there are many situations and activities that God does not intend but he intends freedom so the energy is there. Our soul is freedom, being our self is freedom and happiness is freedom because God is the pure energy or consciousness that lights the room. We can forge checks or read the Bible the choice is up to us and we are responsible for the choice that we make. We make our own drama forming dark clouds if we choose so why do we get upset when it rains? “Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love.” (Albert Einstein)

 

“But the reality is that it is a network of computers with a front loader which routes our requests to the individual server which is freed up to handle it.”

The Mystics are well versed in Christian inwardness as they dive continuously deeper and deeper into the terrain of the soul where the Divinity within is encountered. In the process of sorting out life they open up many resources such as energy, steadfastness and the guts to face life with all its warts and weaknesses. It takes a true disciple’s heart to face oneself directly and listen whole heartedly to the Divine intelligence of the soul. The highest point in the soul is similar to a mountain peak that has been hidden in the clouds, but when the sun melts the clouds away, the mountaintop receives the full light of the sun. Our focus on the present moment illuminates the mind with unity and the presence of a pure consciousness that gives rise to a mind that is capable of seeing a totally new dimension. On the mountain peak we can see a new horizon in the clear, upper, rarefied air of pure consciousness where our soul is the witness of everything inside and outside interconnected and working together. The Christian mystics through the centuries have explained this truth about the soul, but it is a shame that the church has ignored it; ridiculing, oppressing and excommunicating mystics because the church is connected to religion and not the soul. The soul knows how to sooth, heal and rock our experience, but the mind is too busy to know this so we need to quiet the mind and listen to our soul, immersing ourselves in its splendor.

The living God is present now and not in the clouds for us to visit later because it is a state of being, an inner state of happiness. The universe is a never-ending medium of well-arranged relationships and interactions where we learn to love and develop into just being ourselves. We don’t have to wait to die to go to heaven because heaven is at this moment available to us in the same way as are all states of consciousness. The heaven within is timeless with endless possibilities and is always there; we only have to set it in motion starting at our level of reality by tuning into our stillness and stabilizing our vibrations The perfect happiness is being who we are in the present moment because we are already at the intensity of mindfulness that we are capable of undertaking and believing. We can’t buy the experience or entry to the Kingdom of Heaven and no one can give it to us because it comes naturally just being our self. When we take responsibility for our thoughts, our actions and become conscious that we are co-creating our life with God, we don’t have to make things good because when we are conscious of the moment good things happen automatically.

Edited February 27, 2016 by soma

[Realspiritik]

Developing an analogy

 

The Christian mystics through the centuries have explained this truth about the soul, but it is a shame that the church has ignored it; ridiculing, oppressing and excommunicating mystics because the church is connected to religion and not the soul. The soul knows how to sooth, heal and rock our experience, but the mind is too busy to know this so we need to quiet the mind and listen to our soul, immersing ourselves in its splendor.

 

The living God is present now and not in the clouds for us to visit later because it is a state of being, an inner state of happiness. The universe is a never-ending medium of well-arranged relationships and interactions where we learn to love and develop into just being ourselves. We don’t have to wait to die to go to heaven because heaven is at this moment available to us in the same way as are all states of consciousness. The heaven within is timeless with endless possibilities and is always there; we only have to set it in motion starting at our level of reality by tuning into our stillness and stabilizing our vibrations The perfect happiness is being who we are in the present moment because we are already at the intensity of mindfulness that we are capable of undertaking and believing. We can’t buy the experience or entry to the Kingdom of Heaven and no one can give it to us because it comes naturally just being our self. When we take responsibility for our thoughts, our actions and become conscious that we are co-creating our life with God, we don’t have to make things good because when we are conscious of the moment good things happen automatically.

 

 

Yes. Western Christian orthodoxy has treated its mystics poorly, and has instead chosen charismatic prophets to guide the Church's path.

 

We do, indeed, need to stop and listen to the soul, though at present the idea of the "good soul" is not in favour in our society or in our churches.

[soma]

Realspiritik, It is so true what you said about the soul not being in favor in our society. The good thing is it gives us something to do making the spiritual journey adventurous and a little dangerous. The church tyrants give rules and punishment so we obey them and echo their words, but the soul amplifies the voice of God so we break the chains and dance with joy.

[Realspiritik]

Realspiritik, It is so true what you said about the soul not being in favor in our society. The good thing is it gives us something to do making the spiritual journey adventurous and a little dangerous. The church tyrants give rules and punishment so we obey them and echo their words, but the soul amplifies the voice of God so we break the chains and dance with joy.

 

Beautifully put, Soma. Thank you.

 

I think a lot of people imagine that church members all believe in the good soul. I dare say this is one reason some of the unchurched refuse to try it out -- fear of having to say they believe in the soul.

 

Wasn't I surprised, then, when I had to explain to my committee of enlightened university theology professors that Christianity has a doctrine of the soul which has been operating since Jesus first began to teach and heal! The soul is so poorly thought of in some liberal and progressive theological circles that it's almost taboo to speak of it.

 

When I read about recent findings in quantum physics and astrophysics -- with all the things we don't know and all the things we can't understand (even when we spend billions of enormous particle accelerators) -- I have to shake my head and wonder why people are so darned scared of the idea of the soul. As far as I can tell, the soul is "built" from energy particles that have little or no measurable mass. Since most of the energy in the universe also has little or no measurable mass, I can't see what the big deal is.

[soma]

"When I read about recent findings in quantum physics and astrophysics -- with all the things we don't know and all the things we can't understand (even when we spend billions of enormous particle accelerators) -- I have to shake my head and wonder why people are so darned scared of the idea of the soul. As far as I can tell, the soul is "built" from energy particles that have little or no measurable mass. Since most of the energy in the universe also has little or no measurable mass, I can't see what the big deal is."

 

I share you feeling about the soul and Christians' and non Christians' fear of it. I feel many people talk about the soul without a solid experience with it because it is beyond the mind, but some people in the religious and non religious realms are having this experience and expressing it in diverse ways from science to spiritual bliss, but the majority will put it down as new age or blind faith. The mystics in Christian communities were always put down, but the way people treated them was their karma and how the mystics reacted was their karma given the fact that the stress caused by gossip did not kill them, only shows us that how react to gossip is our karma. The problem is gathering our strength together to quiet the mind, not denying the pain, but letting go of past hurts by forgiving others and our mistakes because we can’t start something new carrying yesterday’s baggage. It is a lot easier being a survivor rather than suffering as a victim because as pain manipulates our body, guilt manipulates our mind keeping us from the soul.

 

This does not mean we need to accept things on blind faith because we don’t have to believe or not believe, but just be receptive to what is communicated as the experience arises and not afraid. Scientific spiritual knowledge is to be repeated in the laboratory of our own being and should not be followed unless the direct experience is replicated in the experiment. The mystic Ralph Waldo Emerson stated, “All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.” The spiritual energy of our soul is latent and unexpressed because the mind’s influence is so strong it blocks energy from the soul so we need to release the mental obstructions. A good path for intellectuals is to travel the path of knowledge to understand the mind and its relation to the universe. It is always better to go to the source for information to eat the fruit instead of the candy that is manufactured. The fruit at the source is free and it is always there even if we do not take it into account; for that reason, we just have to experience it to realize the value and validity it has in our lives. We can choose to appear on the physical plane and to ignore the soul, and when we have learned enough from the physical teacher called “Cause and Effect”, we will probably decide to deal with the large pool of negative energy stored in our unconscious mind. We are the cause of the sorrow in our life so when we are tired of the pain, we will work to transform our lives to accept the joy that we deserve. The universe, is gigantic, bigger than our mistakes, and it will make us better if we don’t let it make us bitter. Saint Augustine another mystic said, "This is the very perfection of a man, to find out his own imperfections."

[fatherman]

I like the idea "I am not a human being having a spiritual experience. I am a spiritual being having a human experience". I think it is important to be conscious of the soul, even to live in soul consciousness at times. But if we are truly spiritual beings having a human experience, we should embrace the humanity in our lives. I no long subscribe to the idea that we should always be striving to transcend our own humanity. We will live a fully spiritual life soon enough.

 

But problems arise when we forget what we truly are. Our brains are wired in a way that we may remember our soul and even live in it with practice. It is important because it is very possible that we or perhaps God have ordained our human life for a purpose, as was said, to experiment. But it would be worthless for a scientist to experiment with no sense of purpose, no hypothesis, no measurements. I wonder if It's the soul which is aware of this.

[Realspiritik]

I like the idea "I am not a human being having a spiritual experience. I am a spiritual being having a human experience". I think it is important to be conscious of the soul, even to live in soul consciousness at times. But if we are truly spiritual beings having a human experience, we should embrace the humanity in our lives. I no long subscribe to the idea that we should always be striving to transcend our own humanity. We will live a fully spiritual life soon enough.

 

But problems arise when we forget what we truly are. Our brains are wired in a way that we may remember our soul and even live in it with practice. It is important because it is very possible that we or perhaps God have ordained our human life for a purpose, as was said, to experiment. But it would be worthless for a scientist to experiment with no sense of purpose, no hypothesis, no measurements. I wonder if It's the soul which is aware of this.

 

Like you, I believe we're spiritual beings having a human experience, and like you, I think it's important for us to embrace the humanity in our lives.

 

It's when we stop forgetting that soul, mind, heart, and body are fully intertwined in our humans lives (Mark 12) and start making dualistic claims (mind versus body, body versus soul, and so on) that it becomes harder for us to hear the insights that come to us from our "best selves" (i.e. our true soul nature).

[soma]

I agree we are lucky to have a body and mind to work with on the physical plane and I feel we can utilize their potential if we understand how they work. We are using Christian terminology, but there are many different ways to talk about our being human. I like the analogy that fatherman started so to continue with the computer analogy we can compare the three parts of the mind working together by comparing them to a computer. The keyboard and monitor are similar to the conscious mind because information is inserted with the keyboard and projected on the monitor. Therefore, knowledge detected by the senses in the environment internally and externally is instantly observed in the conscious mind. The subconscious mind is similar to RAM, the most common type of memory found in computers and other devices because it can be retrieved quickly. It collects and rapidly brings to mind names and memories that are recently stored or habits and the things we have to do every day. Our current feelings, worries and fears are also gathered here. Many times we are on autopilot and don't have to think to respond because the subconscious is automatic and instantaneous and carries out these familiar responses for us. Our subconscious mind is simply carrying out our programmed responses as life unfolds so the most vital activities of life are carried out automatically in the silent chambers of the subconscious mind.

 

The hard drive or unconscious is more long term than the RAM or subconscious and contains all our remembrances and agendas of our whole life span. It accumulates all our life’s information from the environment that we are involved in to make certain we are safe. It might come from the unconscious, but the subconscious provides the intuitions or gut feelings we get in our conscious mind to help us in our survival. They don’t just dart in from a nonexistent place, but from our inner reality so we need to trust our inner nature because it doesn’t tell untruths. Intuition doesn’t have to be explained, validated or defended, but just followed as it guides us towards the truth, more often than not it is backed by events picked up by our subconscious and unconscious minds. Every person writes a different story through their thoughts, actions and connections from the external world, so this information stored in our unconscious makes a great impression on who we think we are and our potential. It provides us with intuitions, and understandings of ourselves and our relationship to the universe, but when we are not aware, we stumble and fall and do not even know that we have fallen so we need to make peace with who we are in mind and body to be happy with what we have.

 

We are cultivated, encouraged and sustained by creation not to be good, but to be better so the universe is guiding us, not punishing us for sin because we do that to ourselves by separating ourselves from love. There is no punishment for being bad, but there are effects that are gently teaching us to be better, never putting us in a situation we can’t handle. The Creator and the universe don’t reward or punish, the process is called cause and effect where our actions have consequences. We are responsible for our spiritual growth or limiting ourselves to our mental programing because our consciousness is the only thing that veils or unveils reality. Just like we scan our computers for spyware and viruses we also need to remove harmful mental programing so we have more memory available to see and deal with the present moment. Opening the windows to the Holy Spirit or Cloud with science or other spiritual techniques can help us find truth through the things, actions and people in our universe.

 

This approach using scientific principles makes religion scientific and not dogmatic because to know oneself and the force beyond the mind is at the heart of science and all religions. Science can help us because it is the study and investigation into the opposing energies of God’s creation clarifying our values about ourselves and the environment in which we live. Everything happens for a reason, there are no mistakes so understanding science gives us the tools to reverse negative thoughts, grow out of our past and experience the pure energy in the supernatural. It does not need words to communicate because it is not a religion. It is the experience of different energies that has the power to heal, obstruct, harm, help and bring joy, happiness or humiliation. Energy is the essence of life so if we spent more time loving others instead of fighting the devil, the world would be a better place and the devil would not exist. We need to take responsibility for our energy and love the present moment as it reveals the Absolute spreading energy and love beyond all boundaries.

We are not at the mercy of Satan or some unknown mental programing or emotions because we have all the tools within to develop our energy to a higher frequency if we so desire. The first step is to sense our energy as well as the energy around us and to witness our mind and the thoughts and images they produce. The thoughts that we project outward are the vibrations that we attract inward into our beings, the devil is being created in the vision of those who conjure him up in their minds. There is only one energy, force or power we call God, and there is not a God for good and a God for evil as the leaders of the Inquisition made people believe. The force used in their persecutions and executions was an unconscious devil in the leaders’ minds and their own way of seeing things.

 

In the infinite an infinite number of mistakes are made because that is how we discover wisdom, compassion and love, but we have to make them with awareness because that is how we learn. Difficulties are not unspiritual, but trans-formative as we make psychological adaptations and start to understand ourselves; consequently, they become the source of our spiritual development. We will naturally remove negative displays and programs from our system by observing and letting them pass, a cleaning for the simple reason to have more memory to enjoy the present moment that they obstruct. St Francis de Sales a mystic writer noted for his deep faith and gentle approach said, “Never be in a hurry; do everything quietly and in a calm spirit. Do not lose your inner peace for anything whatsoever, even if your whole world seems upset.” We are fortunate to have so many spiritual leaders reminding us that we are the witness observing the mind, the computer that helps us function on this plane. It is so easy to think we are the mind, its problems and solutions instead of sitting back and just being human and not reacting, but just observing through the soul.

Edited March 1, 2016 by soma
paragraph breaks

[fatherman]

Soma, as I'm reading this a rainstorm is making a soundscape for your thoughts. Perhaps you and God sensed my need of these thoughts and sounds tonight. This is grace for me.

 

I've been thinking a lot about brain programming this week. I'm working with the idea that I can change the structure of my brain over time for the better or the worse. I've chosen an affirming statement to help change some unwanted behavior rather than beat myself up over it every time I behave this way. A say it all day regardless of whether i do it or not. My understanding is that over the course of months, my brain may change in a way that will decrease the behavior.

 

I'm a programmer, and I often speak with clients about training the software to do what they need it to do. My approach is organic aND artistic. I don't manufacture software. Its an ongoing process. I think that is what we are: an organic, artistic, process.

 

We've written a lot about absolute truth of late. It's good to see things as they really are, but we are like God, we are artists. When we see a tree, we become artists. We see it the way we see it, based on a million little variations in our organic process of living. We paint our own reality in the absence of absolute truth. What prevents us from seeing reality, though, is judgment. We say that this tree is beautiful and this tree is ugly. This stands in the way of our artistry.

 

If we can paint our reality, that means we can change our reality. We talk about mind altering. Mind altering drugs. Mind altering sex. Mind altering meditation. We can change the way we see and understand the world at the atomic level, the energy level even if only for a single second. We get a flash of what reality could be or truly is. We can train our software to be what we as the programmer want it to be, the artist.

[romansh]

I've been thinking a lot about brain programming this week. I'm working with the idea that I can change the structure of my brain over time for the better or the worse. I've chosen an affirming statement to help change some unwanted behavior rather than beat myself up over it every time I behave this way. ...

 

This I think is an incredibly accurate observation.

 

I too have programmed myself to think in certain ways. The question becomes who programmed the programmer? For some it is God, for others it is the universe. Some think we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps.

Edited March 1, 2016 by romansh

[fatherman]

 

This I think is an incredibly accurate observation.

 

I too have programmed myself to think in certain ways. The question becomes who programmed the programmer? For some it is God, for others it is the universe. Some think we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps.

It is worth considering. In the scope of these questions, science is incomplete. My position on this in flux. I might say something different even tomorrow. Today, I have an image that God is a designer. God has designed a universe where perhaps billions variations in human biology are possible. Even though I have an identical twin with identical DNA, I'm am unique in some ways. DNA suggests a biological configuration. Take my smart phone. It has a configurable state. I can choose my lock screen image. I can choose my security settings for the lock screen. My thoughts, my experiences, my health, my environment affect which of my genes are dormant and which are active. If bipolar is genetic, then my gene for it is turned on. This goes back to my idea of binary building blocks. Something triggered my bipolar gene. My brother's bipolar gene never turned on. Did God want this for me and my brother? I don't know. Whether or no God intended this configuration for me is less important than what meaning I attach to it. I configured my phone because I desired a certain state for operation. I might decide that I welcome the activation of my bipolar gene. This puts me in a more proactive posture for living. That is, I live as if I've chosen to have bipolar. I learn and grow because of it.

 

For me, where God enters the picture, is in helping me grow from my circumstance. If I surrender my bipolar to God, then I become open to the possibility that he can do something good with it. The question of whether it is an actual reality is less important to me than how living this way can better my life. I believe that we can unlock potential in this process.

 

To continue with the programming metaphor, I would say that God is like Gosling, the inventor of the Java language, he is the God of Java. Both God and I can program with it. Let's say I hire Gosling as a consultant. He can code the parts of my system which I give to him. He's actually an infinitely better programming than I am so there is benefit to contracting him when I just can't figure it out. There is also benefit for me to figure it out. Being a musician is a large factor. Musicians brains grow through the study of music into a biological state that is optimal for software engineering. Music study can be likened, in this metaphor, to spiritual practice. When we attend to regular practice (spiritual or otherwise), we will gain the skills to create our own software. We can't create the computer or the operating system, but we can build software which can enhance our capabilities and make our lives closer to the way we want it. Gosling can also give me ideas which inspire me to build things I might not have conceived otherwise.

 

So God, through the Universe, designed us. There are choices which make that can make something out of that design. And if we are open to it, God can enhance us in ways we have not yet imagined.

[soma]

fatherman you have played your hand well with the cards that have been dealt. I feel you are a deep thinker that has a lot to teach Christians still hiding in their illusions.I agree with you and also feel we are not just onlookers in a rite of passage that comes up in our lives, but active regulars, customers and suppliers of the memories and mental accounts in our journey. The unconsciousness is a large pool of information that is composed in patterns of memories stored away so we can draw upon them at a later date. This has a big impression on how we reason, what we believe and how we choose our reactions, but then again we have the component of free will in our activities. If we are aware and not just reacting to the unseen energies that are in and around us, we become aware of the mystery that is beyond the five senses and can tone down the reaction so not to be so affected by our past. Adjusting our perspective we become aware of new ways to deal with our secrets, bringing light to our unconsciousness so it is revealed and we don’t have to react to it. Our inner witness comes from a place of greater awareness with insights to healing and ways to avoid our heavy, slow energy; as a result, we are able to tune into the higher energies of the universe. Awareness and understanding are the ways out of our predicaments and the problems that we have gotten ourselves into, considering that we all have made mistakes, we need the capacity to learn and correct our miscalculations. I am impressed with your thoughts are feel you are heading in the right direction for your well being.

[romansh]

So God, through the Universe, designed us. There are choices which make that can make something out of that design. And if we are open to it, God can enhance us in ways we have not yet imagined.

 

Yes science is incomplete ... the question becomes do we need to fill that incompleteness. I think the answer is yes, but more in the sense that nature abhors a vacuum than anything else. Some fill this incompleteness with family and friends, some with sports and entertainment, some with arts, literature and music. And some of course fill it with god and designers.

 

In a sense we do choose these things, yes I chose not to be a stamp collector and I chose to stop actively collecting coins. But I did neither of these things consciously. You did not wake up one day and say I choose to believe in god, you just find yourself believing in god. In my case I slowly shed deism and ietsism like a snake sheds it skin. All this is because of myriad of forces that have shaped my life.

 

For me god is like Santa Claus ... a useful concept to get me through a certain stage in life. Perhaps like training wheels on a bicycle; its OK to take off those wheels when we are ready and experience life for what it is rather than for what we want it to be.

Edited March 2, 2016 by romansh

[fatherman]

 

Yes science is incomplete ... the question becomes do we need to fill that incompleteness. I think the answer is yes, but more in the sense that nature abhors a vacuum than anything else. Some fill this incompleteness with family and friends, some with sports and entertainment, some with arts, literature and music. And some of course fill it with god and designers.

 

In a sense we do choose these things, yes I chose not to be a stamp collector and I chose to stop actively collecting coins. But I did neither of these things consciously. You did not wake up one day and say I choose to believe in god, you just find yourself believing in god. In my case I slowly shed deism and ietsism like a snake sheds it skin. All this is because of myriad of forces that have shaped my life.

 

For me god is like Santa Claus ... a useful concept to get me through a certain stage in life. Perhaps like training wheels on a bicycle; its OK to take off those wheels when we are ready and experience life for what it is rather than for what we want it to be.

"the question becomes do we need to fill that incompleteness."

 

I think we have needed this since the dawn of human consciousness. Some on this board have recently made compelling arguments for not filling the gap with God just in case God is not real, and that this is the next step in human consciousness evolution. I see the validity in this, but reject it for myself. Music is an interesting example. I've written extensively on this subject. Sounding Brass or Clanging Cymbal. My contention is that the human mind draws a distinction between noise and music based on what is already in the mind or not. In that sense, it is subjective and not necessarily a choice It is our experience which gives sound meaning.

 

Believing in God is not necessarily a choice, but choice can be a significant factor. My belief in God began with my parents. But for most of my young adult life, God was primarily an idea which I accepted as true. But it was not until I had certain experiences did I truly believe. These experiences could have very well happened to you and yet you might choose not to attribute any of it to a god. I realize that it is not that simple. My experiences up to that point influenced my choice, but I still believe that there was a choice to make.

 

"For me god is like Santa Claus ... a useful concept to get me through a certain stage in life. Perhaps like training wheels on a bicycle; its OK to take off those wheels when we are ready and experience life for what it is rather than for what we want it to be."

 

There certainly is a construct for a god that is like a Santa Claus, and that needs to be shed in order to better understand the nature of God. If Santa Claus God is like training wheels, then what do you have when you remove the training wheels? Atheism or a step closer to a truer relationship with God? Either are valid. Neither is a sign of maturity or immaturity.

Edited March 2, 2016 by fatherman

[fatherman]

Soma, as I'm reading this a rainstorm is making a soundscape for your thoughts. Perhaps you and God sensed my need of these thoughts and sounds tonight. This is grace for me.

 

I've been thinking a lot about brain programming this week. I'm working with the idea that I can change the structure of my brain over time for the better or the worse. I've chosen an affirming statement to help change some unwanted behavior rather than beat myself up over it every time I behave this way. A say it all day regardless of whether i do it or not. My understanding is that over the course of months, my brain may change in a way that will decrease the behavior.

 

I'm a programmer, and I often speak with clients about training the software to do what they need it to do. My approach is organic aND artistic. I don't manufacture software. Its an ongoing process. I think that is what we are: an organic, artistic, process.

 

We've written a lot about absolute truth of late. It's good to see things as they really are, but we are like God, we are artists. When we see a tree, we become artists. We see it the way we see it, based on a million little variations in our organic process of living. We paint our own reality in the absence of absolute truth. What prevents us from seeing reality, though, is judgment. We say that this tree is beautiful and this tree is ugly. This stands in the way of our artistry.

 

If we can paint our reality, that means we can change our reality. We talk about mind altering. Mind altering drugs. Mind altering sex. Mind altering meditation. We can change the way we see and understand the world at the atomic level, the energy level even if only for a single second. We get a flash of what reality could be or truly is. We can train our software to be what we as the programmer want it to be, the artist.

relevant

 

Science of Happiness: Why Your Complaining is Literally Killing You

[soma]

The link to the article "Science of Happiness: Why Your Complaining is Literally Killing You" is brilliant. It made my day to read and savor the science, which is exactly what religion should be about. Thanks fatherman I can't write because I am still savoring the moment.

[romansh]

There certainly is a construct for a god that is like a Santa Claus, and that needs to be shed in order to better understand the nature of God. If Santa Claus God is like training wheels, then what do you have when you remove the training wheels? Atheism or a step closer to a truer relationship with God? Either are valid. Neither is a sign of maturity or immaturity.

 

I think as we get to more "sophisticated" theisms (not my word) like deism, panentheism and perhaps ietsism (the latter being more of a feeling, I think) then closer I think we are to removing those training wheels. Who removes them? That is more like they corrode, wear out and fall off through disuse.

 

I must admit, I like the concept of pantheism ... it is where a theism touches atheism.

Edited March 3, 2016 by romansh

[fatherman]

For many of my years on this board I identified as a Christian panentheist. I still do some days. I have a whole other software engineering metaphor for panentheism. Object Oriented God. I know so few object oriented programmers who believe in God, that it is quite esoteric, but the correlation is astonishing.

[romansh]

For many of my years on this board I identified as a Christian panentheist. I still do some days. I have a whole other software engineering metaphor for panentheism. Object Oriented God. I know so few object oriented programmers who believe in God, that it is quite esoteric, but the correlation is astonishing.

 

[BillM]

Fatherman, I don't think your analogy is crap either. It is, however, and like all other analogies, limited to our human conceptions of God or divinity. In reading your metaphor, it does *seem* to take the view that God or the divine is external to us (i.e. we are separate from the computer) and, therefore, we need an interface to create, develop, and maintain the link. Over the years, at least in Christianity, many interfaces have been offered. For some, it is the bible. For others, it is prayer. Or the church. Or the creeds. Or certain religious practices. But I think it is the nature of this "interfaces" to reinforce the "external God" paradigm.

 

You mention that for many years, you were a panentheist. If this is the case (regardless of where you are now), would you describe the computer as part of yourself, or maybe part of creation? Or how would being a panentheist work with the need/desire for a UI?

[fatherman]

Fatherman, I don't think your analogy is crap either. It is, however, and like all other analogies, limited to our human conceptions of God or divinity. In reading your metaphor, it does *seem* to take the view that God or the divine is external to us (i.e. we are separate from the computer) and, therefore, we need an interface to create, develop, and maintain the link. Over the years, at least in Christianity, many interfaces have been offered. For some, it is the bible. For others, it is prayer. Or the church. Or the creeds. Or certain religious practices. But I think it is the nature of this "interfaces" to reinforce the "external God" paradigm.

 

You mention that for many years, you were a panentheist. If this is the case (regardless of where you are now), would you describe the computer as part of yourself, or maybe part of creation? Or how would being a panentheist work with the need/desire for a UI?

I can see why this analogy could be interpreted as an external God paradigm. But let's pull back a bit from the user interface to an app analogy. An interface is a human construct for relating to God. Panentheism is another way of interfacing with God. In panentheism, we and all things are the parts which make up God. The key to relating to God starts with getting in touch with our own participation in divinity. When we do that, we can become aware of our participation with divinity or life force. But when it comes down to it, it is still a human construct. It is still an interface. Software which gets it's computing from the cloud is closer to panentheism. Rather than doing the computing on the device. The data and the processing happens within the greater scheme. We cannot escape our personality (personal device), but we can surrender to the cloud rather than try to do all of the computing on our limited personal device we experience the power of all of the servers in the cloud rather than our own tiny little server.

 

Moreover, software is an extension of a computer. To the user, software is the computer. In panentheism, the user is the software. That doesn't work very well in this analogy. Essentially, we are the Borg, but with free will.

 

It's pretty flimsy. The analogy works best with an external God interface.

 

I don't believe I AM God, but I believe I am a part of God. Jesus says that he and the Father are one. Perhaps this is a model for living. However, no matter what the reality, if we want a conscious relationship, we have to work with some kind of construct. The point of my analogy is that regardless of the true nature of God, assuming he exists, we will relate in human terms because we are human. We can imagine that we are manifestations of God stuff, and it may be reality, but for lack of knowledge of ultimate reality, we must imagine something. Imaginings may be more than imagination. If that imagining helps us be in relationship with God even if the relationship begins with self in the context of the greater world, then it is a good interface.

 

It's hard to define what a "good" interface is. Perhaps a person doesn't want an interface which provides anything other than life. For example you'd give up your desire for a personal relationship with God for what you believe is ultimate reality, let's say for a non-personal God incapable of love or personal attributes.

[BillM]

Interesting and challenging suppositions and line of thought, David. These days, I'm more interested in different ways we can think of and relate to God than in some kind of systematic theology which has every t crossed and every i dotted. So I appreciate your thoughts and analogies.

[fatherman]

Interesting and challenging suppositions and line of thought, David. These days, I'm more interested in different ways we can think of and relate to God than in some kind of systematic theology which has every t crossed and every i dotted. So I appreciate your thoughts and analogies.

BillM, I feel the same way. The root of faith, for me, is relationship. With each other and with God. Without that it's just ideas, stories, traditions, and rules. Those are valuable things, but not compelling enough for me to devote myself to.

[JosephM]

Re-read this thread and found it very interesting for musing.. While most words i use will not be an accurate representation of what i have come to postulate, it seems to me that the brain is merely a transmitter and receiver and while we speak of it as the mind and with a physical location of the body because of science and its experiments, i see the brain as merely a chemical transmitter and receiver. The 'Mind' i see as being without locality and while not totally accurate 'outside the body'. Each brain in a sense evolved to an identity based on its on-going ability to tune to certain frequencies or a range of frequencies or bouncing around between these ranges. It seems to me one could look at these tuned ranges on a continuum with words to describe consciousness as a range such as anger, apathy, fear, desire, courage, neutrality, willingness, acceptance, reason, love , joy, peace,  etc. Not that any is necessarily higher or better but possibly one could say different or perhaps more evolved.  

It seems to me we can be compared similar to a programmed computer but in my experience it is The Mind which is common to all where the source of all the programming comes from and from which all possibilities are created that inherently over the concept of time draw us toward that source and the range that promotes life rather than the those  that lead to destruction of life. That source seems to me has all knowledge since the beginning of time. In short, the brain which most refer to as the mind i find is the only separation between us. In essence, If i had the same chemical make-up and programming which is modified by your exact experiences and its exact myriad of factors that define you, i would be you.

Just resurrecting an older thread for discussion,

Joseph