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mike rhodes

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I'm giving up. I just can't believe in this stuff anymore. Dress up Christianity as if it's progressive if you want. The bottom line is that it's just not congruent with forward thinking. Morality predates religion. God is made up. I can't get around it anymore. Christianity is a nice warm fuzzy to hope in because it is a man made defense mechanism to a cruel and uncertain world. I can't buy in anymore.

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As a fairly devout agnostic, I can sympathize with this point of view Mike.


Any of the literal interpretations make no sense to me either. But some of the other interpretations make interesting food for thought. We don't have to swallow these hook, line and sinker either.


I was never strongly indoctrinated into Christianity. Vaguely deistic in my early twenties and that passed too.


Reality is far more interesting than any concretized god ... A belief for a concretized god could be considered as an adult version of a child's belief in Father Christmas. The latter gives us a sense of community, good will and oneness. If an adult can shed their concretized perception of Father Christmas and still retain their sense of oneness, then religion has done its job.


It is a bit like the metaphor ... taking a boat to the yonder shore ... there is no particular need to carry that boat on your journey further.


To answer question 1) ... I think the origin of morality is twofold ... evolution has given us a capacity for the sense of morality, in the same way evolution has given us a capacity to sense the colour red. This moral capacity is filled with societal mores. Empathy that is primarily evolution, I would argue.


2) I will let those that care about such things answer this question.

Edited by romansh
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I think morality is evolutionary and is still developing. Maybe God plays some part in this - I simply can't say yes or no, but clearly morality is often different between different cultures and societies, which to me suggests our morality is guided by our experiences as a culture. Sometimes that might get rocked to the core, as perhaps it did for Jesus followers 2000 or so years ago, resulting in a change of direction.


I couldn't tell you anything about Jesus' feelings or doubts. My guess would be that he experienced those things probably just like any other human - in a wide and varied way.

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Just interested in people's opinions.


1) what is the true origin of human morality and empathy? Is it God? Is it an evolutionary construct built in based upon the idea of social living?


2) Did Jesus ever truly experience doubt like we do? For hours and days on end?



Who can say? One could say the mind is the origin of human morality and empathy. As Paul points out above, it is different in different cultures. To me it can be tied back to God, but then not the traditional definition of God. I see God as the totality of all that is and i also see morality as an evolved human construct of mind.


I have no way of knowing but i would certainly think that if Jesus was a real human, he experienced doubt and uncertainty. I am human and i experience both but i do not identify with either of them. They are merely thoughts that come and go and need not have any power over me.



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Mike I like your mind set. Drop Christianity if it is a burden, and I think Jesus the free spirit would agree. I feel we are all in the infinite, but think we are separate. God being the infinite does not preach morality, but individually we sense we are connected and act accordingly, some would label this morality. I would call it unity and just as we have different degrees of morality we have different stages of unity.

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1)It makes sense that in evolutionary terms some sort of morality/ empathy would develop.

2)I have no idea how I could even beggin to speculate on this question. I suppose I'd like to think so, as faith is such a big part of being a believer, it would make sense that our spiritual leader had to go through this ordeal.


You seem to be upset by these points. Do you base your faith on the requirement for God in a scientific world? Increasingly I think anyone who takes this view will be disappointed. Perhaps this is what you need to progress in your life though I don't envy you the growing pains.

To me God is not an answer to unanswered questions, though I don't believe (in fact I know) that science cannot do the complexities of the mind, and emotive states of people justice. As a mental health professional, I know that on a person to person level the understanding of social evolution, genetics, neurology etc is important as a starting point and can lead to some very important management strategies. But it's the art of empathising with someone, of listening and being with somone through their termoil, of going through their ordeal with them and in coming out the otherside helping them to recovery. None of this can be put into an algorithm. None of it relys on having any actual answers, but in having faith in that person, and in many cases spiritual faith has been shown to be one of the most useful tools a person can use for their recovery. Often more powerful that very strong mind altering drugs. Is this proof of God? Probably not, after all isn't that the point of faith? Science is good to get you thinking, and to keep us progressing as a species. But the answer to these questions will not fulfil us as humans. It is the persuit of much richer and deeper understandings between unique, complex individuals that matters. And in realising this and imagining if there was a God in the traditional, parental sense of the word. Doesn't that make more sense for a divine plan then us trying to make sense of origins?

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