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Jesus Buddha And Socrates?


Zenagain
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Hello all. I have been studying Philosophy since I was 11 years old along with Anthropology. I
believe Jesus,Buddha,and Socates have something in common. All were
teachers that wrote nothing down.

 

All of these teachers have had institutions misrepresent what they actually taught.

 

And all the teachers I have mentioned have influenced history with their teaching
and possible lost teachings that resurface in pieces.

 

And finally none of these teachers have left a historical footprint. That is history can not demonstrate they actually existed.

 

If we are to take our world as a physical world of matter and we do not acknowledege that there is
any other level of reality then we only accept physical evidence that a
person exist or existed then maybe they didn't.. But when I talk about other levels of reality I am
talking about physical reality but not necssarily material reality.So if they were conscious beings manifesting in our reality

the way we do ourselves in a dream there would be no evidence after they left.

 

My main point is I do not think Jesus taught what Christians say he did
which is what interested me in reading John Shelby Spong. I have read a
lot of his writings and when I found this website I became very curious
on how open minded Progressive Christians are. I am writing abook right
now that I do not think will attract many Christians or Atheist. . Since
my book is not finished or published and may never be either I am
looking for inspiration.

 

I need to know that open minded people exist that question Christianity and organized religion
in general and that there are atheist that are open to spirituality and
philosophyif it is not organized religion or scientific materialism.


Although I believe matter is real I do not believe reality is matter.
Although I believe in Jesus I believe he taught reincarnation and
pantheism not ressurection and sin. I believe he knew about sin and
about karma. I think he used the word sin around the jewish people and
other words around more advanced desciples.

 

When I say believe I do not mean belief but experience and study leads me to knowledge which I affirm as true and real.

 

This is how I see things. I hope to meet many people with many different
viewpoints. I hope to learn and share and grow. I also hope that this
makes my writing better and that I find some inspiration to finish it.
Because ultmately my viewpoint does not matter.

 

I need to make absolutely sure that I can make people think and question things.

 

If instead I can not communicate ina way where I am understood clearly and I find everything I
say thrown back at me with spin and misrepresenation I will know that I am not as good a writer as

I thought I was

 

. If I upset and confuse people when I want to point to clarity and compassion then I will have
to reconsider my dream to be a writer.

 

Of course I am hoping for a much more positive experience. If nothing else I
wouldn't mind a little support. Between my practically evangelistic
mother and my next door neighbor trying to convert me to Catholicism not
to mention a life history of persecution for daring to think for myself
I could use a little support from people who may have had similar
experiences.

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Zenagain,

 

You are not alone in your path and i would encourage you to continue with your writings, if not for others then for your own sake. Those who become progressive in their thinking usually find much rejection even from their family and close friends. it is a sometimes difficult journey into what seems like no mans land but it is certainly not so. Why? Because many have passed that way before you and encountered like resistance. I myself have published 2 books that were instrumental in getting me no longer invited to minister in the conventional Christian church system and i found while the writings were intended to provide some assistance to others, the benefit was mostly to my own journey and sanity. Follow through with your innermost intentions as it seems form your introduction that it comes from a kind and kindred spirit.

 

Welcome to the community,

Joseph

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These great teachers if they were walking with someone who favored the left side might say walk more to the right and if someone who favored the right side they might say walk more to the left. Why? To be balanced in the middle. With this in mind I can see why they didn't write anything down and the people who did got confused. Zenagain thanks for the post.

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I want to thank both of you for replying and in such a nice way. I just got through watching a documentary called Lord Save Us From Your Followers. I believe Dan Merchant was the film maker. The one thing the film did not address was the divide between believer and and atheist/agnostics. He seemed very frusterated with Bill Maher having so many points to make. But I notice he did not interview Bill Maher. I guess at this point I feel like my book has a mostly atheist audience because atheist will be open to any book that criticizes religion. But when atheist see my view on their closed mindedness I do not know what to expect from them. Perhaps I will have no audience?

 

I hope not. It seems to me that atheist that deny anything but pure materialism will not be heard. Just as any christian that believes jesus taught different from what the church teaches will not be heard. It is not that most christians and atheist think they are probably right about everything. But that they think they are most definitely right about everything. And any viewpoint that challenges a popular belief in religion or science is the ravings of a mad man to be mocked and scorned. It brings me to the low point of hoping people will hate my book enough to read it and discusss it. That isn't really my goal to antagonize but Socrates pointed out that the gadfly is sometimes the only way to wake a complacent arrogant populace from their self worshiping stupor.

 

Ironically it will probably be me that is made to look arrogant because I have confidence in my viewpoints and I attemptt to prove them even though I know almost no one will agree or even understand where I am coming from. You have your RIchard Dawkins and you have your Michael Behe and if you have the audacity to call both of them wrong then you haven't chosen the right side because your only alllowed one view or the other. So I guess I am posting here to see if the more progressive Chriistian is interested in another point of view. What I am looking for is freethinkers. I am not sure there are any left in the atheist world so now I am wondering if there are any freethinkers left at all?

 

Writing a book is a lot harder work then I ever imagined. I mean emotionally and spiritually it takes everything out of you. I try very hard to repress any fear that my book may not be taken seriously no matter how much I put into it or how sincere I am. All that research and the editing nightmare that I haven't even begun yet could be all for nothing. It makes me shudder to think about it and has caused so many writers blocks. I am so afraid I will hit a brick wall. But I am going to keep at it. I guess I would just like some reasurance that there are still thinking people out there that want to read even if all the viewpoints presented challenge everything they believe or thought they knew.

Edited by Zenagain
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I guess I would just like some reasurance that there are still thinking people out there that want to read even if all the viewpoints presented challenge everything they believe or thought they knew.

Zenagain,

 

I think you will find this site is living proof that there are. There will not always be agreement but there certainly will be respect and an openness not often found elsewhere both with those who label themselves PC and those who consider themselves agnostic atheist or by any other religious label. This site is not about who is right or wrong but more on sharing and questioning so that individuals may gain a broader perspective and understanding of other viewpoints that may help to further their own journey among a world full of much uncertainty.

 

Joseph

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I need to know that open minded people exist that question Christianity and organized religion

in general and that there are atheist that are open to spirituality and

philosophyif it is not organized religion or scientific materialism.

I think you'll find many people around like that - I think they just tend to keep a lower profile than evangelicals and/or hard-core Atheists. :)

 

I myself probably best identify as a Christian Atheist. Christian because Jesus is the character that my culture raised me to identify with when it comes to living a good life and I still consider Him in my thoughts, and Atheist in that I don't think there is a God/Gods. That said, how I can ever establish that as a truth is beyond me so I would always add that disclaimer to my atheism that I just can't ever know for sure.

 

Whilst Jesus may be a role model, I acknowledge that it is more the fact that my culture identified with Christianity therefore I was more exposed to this model. Had I been born into a Buddhist or Islamic culture, I am certain Buddha or Mohammed would most likely be my models. They both, like Jesus, have much to offer.

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Hi Zenagain,

 

I think you're on point in many ways. We know that J, B, and S didnt write because back then it was considered more legit to have others record and share what you were doing, although I have a hard time imaginging that either of those three could grasp the idea of so many years passing and their teachings being so dominant. Especially Jesus who is recorded as thinking the end was coming soon. If they did think their teachings would be cornerstones of millenia to come, and if they had any idea how various institutions and communities would play a game of telephone and politics (sometimes innocently and other times on purpose) they may have written for themselves as to never be misquoted :-) It's like Ponce de Leon who is infamous for foolishly looking for a fountain of youth while all the while that was just a rumor started by rival Christopher Columbus. I guess the lesson for today is that it pays to clearly state your business... ;-)

 

Eric

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I myself probably best identify as a Christian Atheist. Christian because Jesus is the character that my culture raised me to identify with when it comes to living a good life and I still consider Him in my thoughts, and Atheist in that I don't think there is a God/Gods.

 

Paul, I wonder if perhaps the equation of Christian-Agnostic would work by changing the defintion of God/Gods? Or are you using the word Atheist in the weak form which already leaves the door open for some "unmoved mover" yet closes the door on an God that comes along with a definition?

 

Eric

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Paul, I wonder if perhaps the equation of Christian-Agnostic would work by changing the defintion of God/Gods? Or are you using the word Atheist in the weak form which already leaves the door open for some "unmoved mover" yet closes the door on an God that comes along with a definition?

 

Eric

Yes, more in the meaning that I am not a Theist. To me, agnostic still leaves room for theism, which I definitely don't believe. But I do leave the door open for some "unmoved mover" of sorts.

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Thx Paul. I was just curious. I can see why you say Agnostic technically leaves the door open for the angry muscle man with a beard. Often the stigma of "atheist" is someone who spends a lot of energy trying to claim there is no God / entity / unmoved mover of any kind, even though the actual word shouldn't mean that. I find Deist to be a decent word too for these purposes, but the form of a being or creator might still be too definitive for you.

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