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Questions On Trinity Sunday


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Today is Trinity Sunday. I don't know if I believe in the Trinity, and if I do, what I believe. My problem is, I just can't seem to find a comfortable (or even an uncomfortable!) place for Christ in my Christianity that doesn't play havoc with my intellectual integrity. As a part of my growth process, I have set for myself the exercise of writing my personal statement of faith. When I get to Jesus, both pre-Easter and post-Easter (Borg), I don't know what to do with the post-Easter Christ.

 

Sometimes I miss the absolute authority of the traditional church. As a teen and young adult in a traditional church, I never questioned the Trinity or the physical resurrection. Now I do. Although I think its a good thing to occasionally wrestle with weighty questions, when I can't seem to come to any acceptable conclusion it is disheartening.

 

Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, what does that mean for you? Is Christ separate-but-the-same as God? *sigh* I expect these are questions I will struggled with for quite some time.

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I don't know if I believe in the Trinity, and if I do, what I believe.

 

Congratulations. In my view, that seems a good place to be

There is no confusion in "I don't know" unless what follows is "But i should know" or "I need to know".

 

You are, in my experience, closer to clarity when you don't identify with conceptual images in your mind. After all, ones real sense of self comes when you cease looking to conceptual thoughts to identify with.

 

Just some musings concerning the issue you mention,

joseph

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One of the bigger mysteries in the Christian story. Of course it only became the Trinity 300 or so years after the death of Christ, which might be part of the problem. My church used the usual analogies such as "3 berries jam" and "Neopolitan Ice Cream", which of course always come up short but make the congregation smile. I think it is one of the curly ones that simply must be accepted on faith, or as you appear to have done simply agree to disagree and put it to one side. I have to admit, I have a few of those things sat to one side which I am unable to reconcile, but it's not the end of the world.

 

I have pondered the usual questions in relation to the Trinity:

 

How can Jesus be God and on the cross ask why God has forsaken Him?

What was the Trinity before the birth of Jesus?

If Jesus was God, does that mean that the crucifixion was some sort of cruel pantomime?

What value is there in a "fake" death if you are God? Surely death is a human (or animal) thing and being human is what makes it a sacrifice to give up life.

 

etc.

 

:unsure:

 

Regards

 

Paul

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I do think the trinity is difficult to assert these days, and for me, the trinity hasn't always existed, It is not timeless. I have been reading "Evolution of God" which I agree with generally. God is evolving. Jesus becomes part of that. Then Christ evolves. I see them as stages of evolution and I can't assert that they have always been one. Jesus is a specific historic figure and needs to serve as a focal point. I could see soma's "Christ Consciousness" as our experience of God.

 

dutch

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Dutch, who' the author of "Evolution of God"? I might be interested in that.

 

See - it's the "Christ Consciousness" that I don't get. It intrigues me, the idea of the cosmic christ, but i don't understand the concept.

 

Thanks for your comments Joseph and Paul. It helps. A lot.

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See - it's the "Christ Consciousness" that I don't get. It intrigues me, the idea of the cosmic christ, but i don't understand the concept.

 

 

Yvonne. In my experience, 'Christ consciousness' is not a concept. The words symbolize an experience that is known rather than understood in conceptual thought. One can say what it is 'as' or 'like' by parable or words such as unity, one mind, joined together, connectedness with God etc....but it still can not be grasped by thought. Subjective experience is what i see as the only way. If any here can speak it in words , i am ready to listen.

 

Joseph

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For me the trinity is unimportant. I asked myself why should it matter and I couldn't come up with one reason why it really mattered... so I don't worry about it. I don't know .... probably never will ... at this point no one knows

 

My problem is, I just can't seem to find a comfortable (or even an uncomfortable!) place for Christ in my Christianity that doesn't play havoc with my intellectual integrity. As a part of my growth process, I have set for myself the exercise of writing my personal statement of faith. When I get to Jesus, both pre-Easter and post-Easter (Borg), I don't know what to do with the post-Easter Christ.

 

Why can't the pre and post easter Jesus be the same. Jesus said follow me not believe in me. Jesus doesn't have to be "believed in" to be relevant. If you view "Christianity" as a way of living ones life.

 

I view the Bible as the views of an ancient people and the best mirror we have into Jesus life but colored by the attitudes and world view of the societies from which they came. The overall story seems valid the details don't.

 

There is very little "belief " involved in my faith journey . I have a sense there is a God. I have a sense God spoke through Jesus. I have a sense God speaks through you too. I don't worry about stuff I can't know. If something doesn't seem to fit... I throw it out. If truth as I see it today turns out to be wrong... I am OK with that, I even expect it ... the journey was/is still worthwhile. I sleep good at night.

 

steve

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Steve - that really touched me - thanks for that. Sometimes, especially when I've come up against something that just doesn't "ring true" for me, I have to let it go. Thanks for the reminder.

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steve, i am much like you when you say, 'There is very little "belief " involved in my faith journey . I have a sense there is a God.'

 

when it comes to an issue like the trinity, i have to conclude that i just don't know. if i were to say i believed it, it means i first have to believe in a lot of other things - that God is interventionist and 'sent' Jesus, that Jesus is 'supernatural' and not just an important teacher etc etc

 

Believing that there is a God, about whom I know nothing, is about as much as i can allow myself to have a 'leap of faith'. If discovering this new kind of christianity has shown me anything, it's that I am happy to accept that I don't know something, and forget about those things and just concentrate on the stuff that is meaningful for me.

 

Jonny

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i watched a great documentary last night - surviving progress - and Robert Wright was on it. really interesting stuff

 

Robert or Ronald? Robert wrote The Evolution of God. Ronald wrote A Short History of Progress.

 

George

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The Evolution of God. Ronald wrote A Short History of Progress.

George

And The Moral Animal, the book put evolutionary psychology to the forefront.

Edited by romansh
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