Jesus As Savior & Progressive Christians

[des]

Darby, I would consider McLaren more of a moderate. He has liberal social views but a more conservative theology. Of course there are limitations with those sorts of labels. I haven't read anythign major by McLaren as he isn't a high priority read right now. I have taken a look at his websites and generally think that I am correct here. He was far and away the most liberal in a group of evangelicals on Larry King Live. He promoted tolerance towards homosexuals for instance.

 

He tends to take a concillatory stance, much like you, I might add.

 

 

--des

[WindDancer]

darby - That was me who first mentioned McLaren in the "Selling Liberal Christanity, Teaching love and community" thread.

 

I'd consider Brian McLaren moderate in theology.

 

In Marcus Borg's "Heart of Christianity" book pg 20 he refers to McLaren as conservative-evangelical moving from the earlier paradigm to a form of the emerging paradigm. In other words, emergent/progressive--yes, but coming from a more conservative place than Borg.

 

Progressive/emergent does not mean liberal or conservative. It will eventually transcend those labels.

 

McLaren makes rigid conservative evangelicals uncomfortable.

Borg makes rigid liberals uncomfortable.

I find that very exciting!

 

McLaren deals with things like evolution, hell, atonement theories, some Old Testament as myth like CS Lewis does. Those are not really burning issues for liberals, but very much issues for conservatives.

 

Emergent evangelicals prefer NT Wright for NT scholar, Walter Brueggemann for OT scholar, and they tend to like CS Lewis a lot. If you are familiar with any of those people, then you have a pretty good idea where emergent evangelicals are at theologically.

 

If anybody wants to try a McLaren book, I'd recommend "A New Kind of Christian." It's written in story form, easy, very enjoyable and will stimulate your thinking on a lot of things. He's not an answer person. He wants to make his readers think. And his writing style does that very well.

[darby]

Des-

 

Does McLaren have glasses? I was surfing the TV the night Larry King had those guests, and I think I remember him now. Just curious if he is the one I am thinking of.

 

Wind Dancer-I'm going to pick up his book. Liberal socially and conservative theologically seems quite like Jesus. The drum I beat repeatedly here (I think everyone has a drum!) is that real Christianity is not one or the other, but both (social justice AND dealing with people's spriitual state).

[Cynthia]

I just looked up McLaren on amazon... I haven't read him yet, but this book title sounds like us (ok, maybe not the specific words, but the listing!!!)

 

. A Generous Orthodoxy: Why I Am a Missional, Evangelical, Post/Protestant, Liberal/Conservative, Mystical/Poetic, Biblical, Charismatic/Contemplative, Fundamentalist/Calvinist, Anabaptist/Anglican, Methodist, Catholic, Green, Incarnational, Depressed-yet-Hopeful, Emergent, Unfinished CHRISTIAN -- by Brian D. McLaren; Hardcover

[AletheiaRivers]

Seriously, that's the title?!

 

Awesome!!! He sounds like he's got a great sense of humor.

[des]

I have no idea if McLaren has glasses! I am the wrong person to ask.

As for the book with the title " A Generous Orthodoxy: Why I Am a Missional, Evangelical, Post/Protestant, Liberal/Conservative, Mystical/Poetic, Biblical, Charismatic/Contemplative, Fundamentalist/Calvinist, Anabaptist/Anglican, Methodist, Catholic, Green, Incarnational, Depressed-yet-Hopeful, Emergent, Unfinished CHRISTIAN -- "

Yes, that sounds like a great read.

 

--des

[WindDancer]

darby - Mclaren is moderate not conservative theologically, but you'll find that out if you read his book. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the book when you read it. It is a very good conversation stimulator!

 

Ya'll can read the first chapters of Generous Orthodoxy free, just download this pdf file.

 

A New Kind of Christian is a better read, though.

 

The Baptists recently withdrew their invitation to have McLaren speak at one of their conventions because they considered his views on salvation unorthodox. So he does make conservatives squirm.

[BrotherRog]

Specifically, he was removed as a scheduled speaker by a Kentucky Southern Baptist evangelism conference after a review of his book A Generous Orthodoxy and his statments on salvation.

[Cynthia]

Here's a quote from the pdf file - thanks, it's great. It reminded me of our discussions!

 

Scandalously, the generous orthodoxy you will explore (if you proceed) goes too far, many will say, in the direction of identifying orthodoxy with a consistent practice of humility, charity, courage, and diligence: humility that allows us to admit that our past and current formulations may have been limited or distorted. Charity toward those of other traditions who may understand some things better than our group—even though we are more conscious of what we think we understand better. Courage to be faithful to the true path of our faith as we understand it even when it is unpopular, dangerous, and difficult to do so. Diligence to seek again and again the true path of our faith whenever we feel we have lost our way, which seems to be pretty often. While I see this practice as a way of seeking and cherishing truth, some will interpret this approach as an abandonment of truth, doctrine, theology, etc. You are free to be among them.

 

To link orthodoxy with a practice, as the previous paragraph does, further makes this book seem ridiculous because many orthodoxies have always and everywhere assumed that orthodoxy (right thinking and opinion about the gospel) and orthopraxy (right practice of the gospel) could and should be separated, so that one could at least be proud of getting an A in orthodoxy even when one earned a D in orthopraxy, which is only an elective class anyway. In fact, one could even get into a good graduate school based on high orthodoxy grades alone.

[Guest jeep]

I'll probably have a better answer after reading some posts, but for now, I would say that I view Jesus as God in human form.  I believe that God created us, it doesn't make sense to me that we would need to be saved from Him.  So, not savior in the sense of died for our sins, but savior in the sense that God came to earth to help/show/guide us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cynthia:

 

I too believe that we were created by God, so why would we be separated from Him, or as you put it "Be saved from Him". It would seem to me that our creation was a purposeful act, and we should be about achieving His purpose for us.

 

To me that seems to have something to do with achieving the will of God for His creation. Is it possible that when we do our will here it's not real unless it has something to do with God's will? Is the World just "will" and we have something to do with "Representation" of that will as "real" in the decisions we make? I

think so!

 

Jeep

[October's Autumn]

I'm more Unitarian in my beliefs... I'm not quite sure what to do with "Christ" I'm more comfortable with Jesus... I don't take communion... I do believe Jesus has teachings (which tie into teaching from the Hebrew Bible) which those who call themselves Christians are supposed to follow, specifically: Love God and love your neighbor.