Mike Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hello all, I'm wondering if anyone else would be interested in a discussion on The New Being. Paul Tillich was one of the heavy-weight theologians of the 20th century. I think this particular book would be an ideal candidate for a book discussion because it is divided into 23 brief theological meditations. Moreover, the entire volume can be read here online (thanks Karen for the info). Also, it's not available for Kindle but its available in e-book format from Barnes and Noble's website for free. The actual book costs 13.46 on both Amazon and B&N, and available from .01 up used on Amazon. Should be easy enough to find at your local library, as well. So, it's not a difficult book to get one's hands on. What do you think? Peace, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivanna Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Mike, I'd be interested in discussing it if there are several others participating. Edited January 5, 2012 by rivanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soma Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would be interested also and will try to keep up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshewfelt Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hello there - I am a brand new member to this website after by chance coming across an article by John Shelby Spong. The result of the reading was a quick trip to Barnes and Noble to pick up Jesus for the Non-Religious. I was amazed to hear words that echoed what I had been feeling intuitively for many, many a year. So I wouldn't mind joining this book discussion if only to sink more deeply into this amazing and soulful journey. Let me know if you still plan on moving forward. I am aware of Paul Tillich, but have not read nor discussed him at any great depth. Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Definitely - I always wanted to read Tillich but was worried it would be way over my head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 It seems thus far we have 5 people interested in the discussion. Perhaps this is enough to get started? Yvonne, I wouldn't worry about it being over your head, as this book is a collection of sermons and meditations, not one of his overtly philosophical works. Peace, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshewfelt Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I am game, Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt67 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I;ve been wanted to read Tillich so count me in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well I think we have enough people interested now. How would we like to organize this? We could either keep it all in the same thread or break it up -- though since these are small chapters I think we could simply keep them in one thread and set a time frame response and discussion for each chapter (again, which is 23 total). Peace, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soma Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I like that idea. second the motion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Chapters are short I'll try to keep up. Other book studies were done in a single thread. Dutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 though since these are small chapters I think we could simply keep them in one thread and set a time frame response and discussion for each chapter (again, which is 23 total). I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt67 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Also, if anyone has a nook, you can download it for free from B&N 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Thanks Matt67 for that information. Joseph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I suppose we can start, then, probably immediately, since this book is readily viewable via the Internet. What say everyone? Perhaps this Friday we'll 'officially' start the discussion? Or would a later date work for everyone? Shall we set a week per chapter? Peace, Mike Edited January 18, 2012 by Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt67 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Maybe give people who are interested a chance to get the book. I'm on the second sermon myself but I have plenty of other reading to get to before we start. But, whatever works for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Friday is fine with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshewfelt Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Friday works for me too! Thanks, Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt67 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Friday is fine with me, but let's be accommodating if we can for those who don't have it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 It's Friday - a few reactions. Seems dated. That he puts the righteous in a box with little promise of a way out reminds of a pastor who once said to his affluent congregation that they needed to access or find a poverty of Spirit. I like the idea that forgiveness is not something Jesus gives but that the womans coming to Jesus is a result of her experiencing forgiveness. At least that's what I thought Tillich was saying until I got to the end of the chapter. Two quotes Jesus does not forgive the woman, but He declares that she is forgiven. Jesus gave [forgiveness] to the woman who was utterly unacceptable. Dutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I started reading the online version, and Mike, you are correct, its not over my head, but its kind of "heavy" for me. I'm not sure if I'm going to continue reading. Maybe I'm lazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I do like the connection that Paul Tillich makes between love and forgiveness. It does seem to me that love which is unconditional acceptance of others and oneself cannot be without forgiveness. And likewise in my view, forgiveness cannot be without love. To me, forgiveness precludes exceptions and Tillich uses the word unconditional to make that point and by also saying "forgiveness is independent of anything we do". I like how he says "His (God's) love is the law of our own being" and also "that it is the law of reuniting love" To me, those words give a glismpe of love working even though it may seem like judgement, oppression , wrath and far from any human idea of love. I think he does a fair job in bringing out the point that our bitterness, feelings of rejection by life and its fears and horrors is not a result of "its objective darkness" but rather our seemingly separation from its power and source of life. Forgiveness in my own experience is key to awareness of that source. I enjoyed the read which is my first new book over the past two years (read free with Nook signup on my Android, thanks again Matt67). At a deep level i would go beyond what Paul Tillich has said in Chapter One and say... from the standpoint of that love ..... that there is in reality nothing to forgive or to be forgiven of except that which is self created by ones estrangement from God and 'other' that requires such to be re-united. Joseph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt67 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yes he could have. What I never realized about that story was the fact perhaps that the woman was all ready forgiven perhaps by seeing or hearing Jesus or hearing about him. I really feel comfortable with Tillich, though I am aware of the limitations and even wrong turn one can take theologically with him and his integration of existentialism and Christianity. When he refers to going deeper what comes to mind is Genesis 1 with the Spirit of God hovering over the deep - as if from true very beginning, God is penetrating into this material world to form it. I see that theme throughout scripture - the idea of molding, conforming, shaping, creating. Creation is not static at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glintofpewter Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think that one has to sense the forgiveness in order to see Jesus. I don't know how to describe the sequence but there has to be a tenderness of the heart/soul to recognize what Jesus has to offer. In this way then the righteous can be described as hard, as Tillich does. I keep wanting to go beyond the horizon of the passage and of Tillich's commentary to rescue the righteous. Tillich's portrayal of the righteous is always a challenge but does it mean that one must be "born again" to experience reunion and resurrection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Thanks everyone for the contributions. I also liked the phrase "law of our own being". To me it is just as true to say that I implicate ultimate truth as ultimate truth implicates me. Therefore, "God's love is the the law of our own being." We feel rejected by life, not so much because of its objective darkness and threats and horrors, but because of our estrangement from its power and meaning. He who is reunited with God, the creative Ground of life, the power of life in everything that lives, is reunited with life. He feels accepted by it and he can love it. He understands that the greater love is, the greater the estrangement which is conquered by it. I agree with Dutch that the chapter as a whole reads a bit dated. I'm still trying to interpret what I feel about Tillich's overall message about righteousness and sin. These aren't terms we tend to use much on this board. As long as we feel rejected by Him, we cannot love God. He appears to us as an oppressive power, as He who gives laws according to His pleasure, who judges according to His commandments, who condemns according to His wrath. But if we have received and accepted the message that He is reconciled, everything changes. I felt that this passage touches an oft overlooked gospel theme that dates right back to the New Testament, that God in Christ -- the New Being -- the new Creation -- has already reconciled the world to himself. It is we who need to "be reconciled to God." We need only act on that acceptance. Peace, Mike Edited January 21, 2012 by Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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