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Does 'your' Christianity Involve The Supernatural?


Mike
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Strangely enough, I agree with everybody, and no, I'm not being facetious.

 

IMO, every event that occurs to us is cannot be scientifically observable, some events are subjective, most especially those involving prayer and spiritual experiences. I do not personally believe in faith healing, but I do not dismiss the possibility. I've had a few scientifically inexplicable events happen to me during prayer – and yes, they were personal, having no relevance to anyone else.

 

I do not believe in pantheism, but rather panentheism – the belief that God is

part of nature and timelessly extends beyond it. Panentheism is differentiated from pantheism, which holds that God is not a distinct being but is synonymous with the universe - Wikipedia

 

 

I do not personally hold with dualism – good/evil, matter/spirit, God/everything else. (Which, I suppose, would imply I do not believe in a supernatural God, thus negating my earlier comment that I did.)

 

Language cannot adequately define the experiential aspects of religion and theology. Most of us here in the forum know and appreciate this. The fact that we can openly dialogue is a huge advantage over those who refuse to consider that which goes against their personal beliefs. This thread, possibly more than any other, has challenged me – both intellectually and in what I hold to be true. All of you have enriched me.

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I must respectfully disagree on this. To say all experiences are subjective and that you can only know truth through personal revelation is in itself an objective statement based on an impersonal observation unless you've somehow been able to personally experience everything that's ever happened in the universe. Of course some experiences are subjective and personal, but to say that they all are and that there is nothing which can objectively be known would put us in an Alice In Wonderland topsy turvy world where up is down and you can't ever objectively know that gravity will turn you into a pancake if you jump off a building until you actually jump off yourself. This postmodern worldview where all experiences are equally subjective and all truth is personal may make sense at first on paper but it's not really liveable when put into practice.

 

Sorry Neon.

 

I was just agreeing with your Thomas Paine quote that "revelation is limited to the first communication". Perhaps you misread my post. My point was a study on "such an issue as this " is no more objective than the personal first hand experience of an individual. All my responses were in response to the validity of your study assertion and not to dispute your right of personal belief on this issue which is fine with me.

 

Jenell,

 

I have no opinion on Benny Hinn. I don't know him personally. That was only one example and my only point was it appears real to Kelly. If she is being fraudulent , i have no way to know but there are enough other stories and also experiences in my life that it seems like that type of supernatural healing takes place even today but each individual is free to take their own position as to whether they are closed or open on the issue. You are certainly not by me expected to receive second hand testimony as your proof.

 

Yvonne,

 

It seems to me that you may be seeing from both sides which to me is founded in wisdom and not at all being facetious.

 

Joseph

Edited by JosephM
correct quote, add and spelling
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Even accepting your definition of the laws of nature and the supernatural, that doesn't change the fact that there is no objective proof of miracles as defined by most Christians and theists.

 

I agree that that's what it comes down to: empirical evidence. But that's really my point. One cannot rule out the possibility of something merely by one's a priori categories. For instance, one cannot rule out ESP simply because it doesn't fit into what one thinks about the nature of reality or of the mind. Would ESP be "supernatural" by many people's definition of "natural"? Yes, but what it really comes down to is empirical reality: do such phenomena exist? It does little to appeal to one's idea of the "natural", as if "nature" were an empirical entity that can be "violated".

 

Peace,

Mike

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In my opinion, the efficacy of prayer should not determined by whether it cures cancer of not. There is no evidence that it does. But, it can help relieve anxiety related to cancer. Scot Atran, a scientist, (In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion), says that prayer has been found to be "a stress reducing means to deal with the existential anxiety that accompanies uncontrollable events." He also says that it has been found that prayer can relieve everyday stress.

 

Tonight on the PBS Newshour, there was a segment that related health and stress. So, to improve health in general, it helps to relieve stress. A British scientist was interviewed who has done work on this subject.

 

George

This is the view that I have. It is an aspect that can be backed up by research that stress usually makes most medical conditions worse and can make us more prone to developing some conditions. I do think prayer is purposeful and I would not dismiss it because there is little medical research that supports the notion that faith healing works. I see it (IMO) as part and parcel of holding ones relationship with God and can help us in focusing on our spiritual journey with our faith. Prayer remains powerful (IMO) even if its affects are often seen as personal. I pray and I believe God listens and I also get something back from God in a spiritual sense. Whether others share that experence, scientifically disprove it or prove it, or know of something else that works for them is for me a secondary issue and one which we each make personally and is individually treasured as such.

I remember someone who did a star chart for me. She really believed in astrology in big way. At the end she pointed out that there was over 130 differing variations that could have an influence on me or not. This left me thinking that given variations the chart could be made to read what ever a person chose to make it read. Yet, dispite my personal feelings there was little doubt in my mind that she got a lot of reassurance and confidence from her beliefs in astrology. I do not feel it was for me to remove that from her and so I did not try to take away her respect for her beliefs. With respect we just agreed to differ. I guess to one degree or another that is the same with faith healing. However, I do acknowledge like astrology and faith healing and many things there does seem those who exploit others and charge a lot of money for services that cannot be proved.

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If she is being fraudulent , i have no way to know but there are enough other stories and also experiences in my life that it seems like that type of supernatural healing takes place even today but each individual is free to take their own position as to whether they are closed or open on the issue. You are certainly not by me expected to receive second hand testimony as your proof.

 

There are also just as many stories of people who used to believe in the supernatural but later rejected that belief after they learned more about critical thinking and skepticism.

 

For instance, one cannot rule out ESP simply because it doesn't fit into what one thinks about the nature of reality or of the mind
You might not be able to rule it out but then one must wonder why there were no reports of psychic predictions of 9/11 before it took place.
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I definitely beleive that some people have a gift, or talent, or quality of what is commonly called "charisma." I have known such people personally, it is what I've sensed about many succesful charletons and con artists as well as involved to perhaps a lesser degree in those more "small potatoes", that never achieve fame and wealth, but go through life leaving a trail of used and abused people behind them. Very often when this comes up in groups for discussion, there will be those that reluctantly share their own experiences of that, haven fallen under the "spell" of someone like that. They are invariabley left feeling confused and uncertain about how to even try to tell anyone about it, for most won't beleive them. The experiences of finding oneself going along with, doing things, at the other's command or persuasion, that one not only "knows" is wrong or unwise, but from the very start, all the way through completion and afterward, asking themselves WHY AM I DOING THIS?? Sometimes a person ,may, when able to get out of close contact with the "charmer", actually determine to break free, get way, not let this go on any longer, but upon coming back into that persons presence and influence, as again putty in their hands.

 

I think this talent or capacity, whatever it is, is innate, those I've known with it seem to have evidenced it even from very early childhood. I also think at the core of it, it is neither "good" or "bad", in how the person miight turn it, use it in life, but, due to the natural development process of a human child, in most social settings, a child tends to most easily learn ways to manipulate to get what they want, their own way, for less than honorable motivations, so it so often becomes a destructive tool. My experience with these people, and I think supported by simple observation and common sense, is that such people also tend to become extremely narcissistic, sometimes pathologically so, they really believe themselves special, priviledged, 'chosen by God, more worthy of good things than others, even not subject to the same legal and moral laws as others.

 

Jenell

Edited by JenellYB
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To add, while I do not know a lot personally about Benny Hinn, I do have an aquaintance that fell under his spell a few years ago...thankfully it only last several years before she 'came back to earth'. She was absolutely as if in a daze, caught under a spell, in a hypnotic trance. She attended many of his appearances, even joined a group trip with him to "the holy Land", was baptized by one of his crew of minions in the Jordan river, at the place purported to be where Jesus was baptized. I think there was even some trouble in her marriage and family over the money she went through connected to following and supporting Hinn. She would babble on about the powerful anointing she could feel radiating from him when in his presence, her face caught in a rapt trance-like expression.

Eventually she "cooled off", i wasn't around her much through those years as she moved away from that, and since then, she has never much talked about it. What's really amazing to me is that she has always seemed to me, bothh before and after, such a down to earth, practical person, and not a "fundy fanatic" at all.

 

Jenell

Edited by JenellYB
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Neon, I've seen somewhere that quite a few of the sort have been through multiple bankrupcies, quite a few involving scandal and/or fraud charges, then 'ressurrected' with a new theme, a new location and newly named ministry. And that many in that 'line' are very good at sheltering assets and funds, from bankrupcy.

Jenell

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To add, while I do not know a lot personally about Benny Hinn, I do have an aquaintance that fell under his spell a few years ago...thankfully it only last several years before she 'came back to earth'. She was absolutely as if in a daze, caught under a spell, in a hypnotic trance. She attended many of his appearances, even joined a group trip with him to "the holy Land", was baptized by one of his crew of minions in the Jordan river, at the place purported to be where Jesus was baptized. I think there was even some trouble in her marriage and family over the money she went through connected to following and supporting Hinn. She would babble on about the powerful anointing she could feel radiating from him when in his presence, her face caught in a rapt trance-like expression.

 

I agree rock stars, politicians and sells people have this charisma. When electricity goes through a wire around the wire a magnetic field is created. People are drawn to the spiritual experience. It is too bad it is exploited because both the victim and the exploiter are hurt. No matter what level one achieves spiritually one can fall. Jesus stumbled carrying the cross 3 times and got up so may everyone involved do the same. I feel slow and steady, moment by moment living in the present solves this problem.

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In my opinion, the efficacy of prayer should not determined by whether it cures cancer of not. There is no evidence that it does. But, it can help relieve anxiety related to cancer. Scot Atran, a scientist, (In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion), says that prayer has been found to be "a stress reducing means to deal with the existential anxiety that accompanies uncontrollable events." He also says that it has been found that prayer can relieve everyday stress.

 

Tonight on the PBS Newshour, there was a segment that related health and stress. So, to improve health in general, it helps to relieve stress. A British scientist was interviewed who has done work on this subject.

 

George

 

Now I can agree totally with this. In this sense, yes, definitely, prayer can have real power. I also believe that among truly caring and connected people, there can be a mutual sharing and joining of spiritual, or psychic energies, that can make a difference for someone ill or otherwise under stress. And, that given there are always multiple factors involved in both our becoming ill and overcoming an illness, this can be one of the factors that tips the scales toward healing.

 

I also believe, have experienced personally, the gift some people have of being able to convey to, or upon, others, an energy, whether one calls it spiritual, psychic, or simply natural 'life force', that can truly be strengtening, supporting and encuraging healiing. Many such people gravitate into 'hands-on' type healing arts, such as physical therapy or massage thhereapy or even nursing. They are able to convey some energy, some force, through their hands, even just their presence. Whether called by pranic energy, chi, shaktipat, reiki, or any other term, there is a considerable range in how strongly it may flow thought different gifted persons, but I believe it something very real that can be experienced by both the giver and the recipient. And as the giver conveys it to or upon another, so too does it flow through themselves, as through a conduit, bringing the giver benefit as well. Perhaps all these terms for it are really just other terms for love, the kind of love that is godly love, for in my own experiences most definitely love seemed to me clearly evident in both the 'feel' of it and everything about the demeanor, expression, voice, of the giver.

 

This is still not at all the same as what we are usually talking about in terms of 'faith healing' and 'spiritual healers' and miraculous healiings. I know of people caught up in that kind of thing that are so desperate to see evidence of god's power, the reality of the spiritual, that they readily see 'miracles' in even them most ordinary occasions of people recovering from illness or even difficult circumstances. Some will even wonder and debate among themselves whether or not someone's particular occasion of recovery involved "healing" (spiritual, miraculous) or a "cure" (effects.result of medical treatment). I do not know what to say when such ones ask, of my own recovery or anothers, "do you think it was a cure or a healing?" Many within that culture are also quick to react to someone's recovery from illness or a difficult situation for which they've prayed, as "another answered prayer." and further proof, evidence, of the power of their prayers to 'move God' to some action, or change of His will.

 

Honestly, I fiind this so offensive for that it both seems too me to cheapen God, and because where such image of god prevails, there is no place for those caught up in it to seek toward a truer, more 'real"(?) and deeply satisfying relationship with God, and even their own inner nature.

 

Jenell

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

Just catching my own inconsistency in my last two paragraphs above, that I both say I know, and that I don't know, reveals an interesting element of my thoughts. Perhaps it is on some level I know, on some other, I do not know.

 

Another possibliity to add to the above is that human capacity to percieve, comprehend, that 'extended level of reality' beyond our present consensus reality concept may not be new at all. It may have been, among primitive human societies, simply accepted, what came to be called spirits and gods that were based in real perceptions. But that human society, in the advances of science and technology that brought reliance on knowledge of material nature has served to draw a veil, that referred to veil of "ingore-ance", that has hidden it from view. As the mists of Avalon closed over the Lake as belief in the magic was lost.

 

 

Question:

How do you believe in God and the Spirit of Christ if you don't believe in divine interference or supernatural events? Personally, I couldn't do so and didn't for 35 years until I went through three days of supernatural events in my life that my prior science explains all mindset could not begin to explain. Three days of continuous synchronicity experiences, one right after the other. "Pure coincidence" might explain one synchronicity experience but not continuous ones, and all of them prophetic of what I was to later learn in my life through "reality" catching up, i.e., events years afterwards proving out things I had received in mystical communion in this for me tremendous life-changing experience.

 

Speaking of miraculous healing, I wouldn't trust Benny Hinn's operation for any truth but I do personally know two women, both very strong in their faiths, one Pentecostal Christian and one Buddhist who by prayers to Christ for one and to Kwan Yin for the other managed to save their own lives with miraculous healing. Both women through prayer stopped massive hemoraging, one in her stomach and the other from her uterus and both surprising their doctors as "unexplainably" cured. They, the doctors couldn't stop the bleeding and were losing these women until the women themselves through prayer saved their lives. I've worked in a hospital and have seen how hemoraging women can die quickly so I'm impressed with my two friends reports. Others may not be. My Christian friend who is a lay minister tells me this sort of thing happens frequently in her healing ministry but then God talks to her ;) But to me too:rolleyes:.

 

Hey, Jenell, did you know there's a real magic sword now in the world? This one's not a myth but resides in the special meeting room of Nazareth's leading Christian priest. Here's a litmus test for "miraculous": It's not Hollywood Moses parting the Red Sea or Jesus walking on water but it is a modern real life Pentecostal type of miracle.

 

A Gnostic Christian receives a religious vision which instructs him to create a special Sword of Peace to be a symbol of healing in the Holy Land. The spiritual model is thought to be the famous Isaiah verses about forging swords into plowshares. The vision instructions that call for sanctification baptisms at the seasonal breaks are not "Christian" at all but seem more pagan or natural religion. The last sanctification baptism was to be done in the Jordan river. A decade goes by and the final baptism in the Jordan is still undone because the visionary is an activist as well and like most activists poor. In frustration the visionary mails the Sword of Peace to a receptive Catholic priest in Jerusalem figuring if he can't afford the trip at least he can get the Sword to the Holy Land for someone there to finish the baptism ritual and find a home for this special sword meant to be a peace offering model for Israelis and Palestinians to work out their conflict and provide a model for the world. But the Sword of Peace is confiscated in Jerusalem by Israeli Customs and finally sent back to the U.S. a month later. Israeli Customs claim the Sword of Peace is a weapon and therefore cannot enter Israel. (F-16's are allowed..) This creates a big worry because how to get the Sword of Peace into Israel?

 

Another three years go by and the Gnostic Christian visionary being an activist and mostly poor finally obtains enough money, another miraculous story where the visionary overachiever wannabe plays blackjack on Internet casinos and runs $75 up to $1300 in three days and immediately buys a rt ticket to Israel to finish his vision mission. But what about the fact that the Sword of Peace is considered a weapon by Israel? The visionary schemes various ways to conceal the Sword through airport security. He builds a hollowed out cross where the blade and hilt are to be hidden. But this is mickey mouse stuff for airport security and he worries how in the world to get Paxcalibur into Israel. About three weeks before scheduled departure he has a vision before turning in that tells him to break Pax's blade and form it into a peace sign. He maps out the places where to break the blade and takes Pax to a local metal smith to do the work. The metal smith "just happens" to have an old circle of brass that is the perfect

 

size for the peace sign circle. The work is done and Pax is mounted on an olive oiled small redwood slab and as a "work of art" Paxcalibur sails right through Israeli customs.

 

Through travel inexperience the visionary has booked only three days in Israel to accomplish his mission. He has an Israeli peace activist friend as his guide who takes him on the first day to the Sea of Galilee and the headwaters of the Jordan where he performs the required final sanctification baptism about a hundred yards upstream from the "official" Jesus baptism site in Galilee. But now, where to find a home for the Sword of Peace in the Holy Land? He asks his Jewish peace activist friend for suggestions and she suggests her friend, a Greek Orthodox priest in Nazareth so they go there and he loves the Sword of Peace. In fact, he invites the visionary to come the next day to be in the annual Easter Procession through Nazareth which the visionary does do the next day and a miracle happens. These Nazarean Christians speak Arabic and the visionary doesn't. Even the priest speaks only halting English. But the Gnostic Christian visionary is invited into the priest's church service and stands before an Arab audience who is as puzzled but polite about what's going on as he is. After the service and the congregation filing out to begin the Easter Procession the Gnostic Christian visionary and the priest go out too. The priest tells the Gnostic Christian visionary with the New Age sword to be right behind the Israeli scout troop that leads the parade and the local priests, two Greek Orthodox and one Catholic and then all the Nazareans who join in the procession. The miracle that happened began with this: The visionary couldn't speak a word of Arabic and the parade people couldn't speak English but all the visionary had to do was raise up Paxcalibur to these people and recognition of the Message of Peace from God occurred spontaneously without need of any language. This was a real life Pentecostal-type event. Even Muslims in balconies above showered Paxcalibur with flower petals and candies every time Pax was raised up to their view. The miracle continued as at the end of the Easter procession in the courtyard of the Church of St. John, over 500 Nazarean Christians honored Paxcalibur and the visionary, sang to him, and to this day Paxcalibur is kept in that priest's special meeting room in his home in Nazareth where he heads the Christian community.

 

If you were to guess the chances of a New Age hippie peace symbol sword named "Paxcalibur" after a pagan Arthurian myth being accepted as the Holy Land's newest religious icon what do you think the chances would be? This was in 2003 years before any Arab Spring awakening and in the very heart of Christiandom.

 

GoldenRulerPax-2-1.jpg

 

Paxcalibur "speaks" in all languages God's new main message to humanity: Everything made into weapons against peace must be sacrificed. Truth cannot be sacrificed.

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I had never even heard of this "Paxcalibur" before. I tried Googling it and I only managed to find one source which was some badly designed website that was clearly biased and unreliable. Until I see a reliable peer reviewed study on this so-called Sword of Peace having miraculous powers, I'm questioning the accuracy of this tale. Does this sword even exist? It has the feeling of an urban myth to me.

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I had never even heard of this "Paxcalibur" before. I tried Googling it and I only managed to find one source which was some badly designed website that was clearly biased and unreliable. Until I see a reliable peer reviewed study on this so-called Sword of Peace having miraculous powers, I'm questioning the accuracy of this tale. Does this sword even exist? It has the feeling of an urban myth to me.

 

I found a photograph on a website of a guy holding the sword, so a physical object exists that fits the picture posted to this thread. As for the miraculous events, well, one should always be skeptical of miraculous events.

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Paxcalibur is real alright. Here's the complete story. This is proof that sometimes personal spiritual revelation is sanctioned by God and others partake in it. Christianity is being resanctified in our times because the Gospels cannot be verified by anyone and thus leave Christian believers dependent on unbelievable hearsay. This may do for blind faith believers but is not acceptable to those who need to know what it is they believe in.

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How do you relate to the notion of the supernatural? Is it really a useful category? Is naturalism today merely a synonym for materialism?

 

Peace,

Mike

 

I don't think supernatural things happen. As a category, I think it only succeeds in clouding the picture of reality.

 

Materialism is only one aspect of naturalism. It cannot be reduced as such, nor should it be taken as a negative thing, although there are those who hoard material things, or make material things a kind of god. Those actions can often be harmful to others.

 

NORM

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How do you believe in God and the Spirit of Christ if you don't believe in divine interference or supernatural events... I went through three days of supernatural events in my life that my prior science explains all mindset could not begin to explain. Three days of continuous synchronicity experiences, one right after the other. "Pure coincidence" might explain one synchronicity experience but not continuous ones, and all of them prophetic of what I was to later learn in my life through "reality" catching up, i.e., events years afterwards proving out things I had received in mystical communion in this for me tremendous life-changing experience.

 

 

I spent three days once tripping on Magic Mushrooms (Psilocybin). I saw dead people riding horses and giant rabbits eating rocks. I watched my car melt into a puddle in the sand. At the time, and for many days afterward, I thought I actually saw those things.

 

The mind is a very powerful and (image)inative thing.

 

Which is one reason I tend not to place too much reliance on "experience" and revelation. Feelings like deja-vu are explained by the incredible power our mind has to retain bits of information and to recall them when an outside stimulus triggers the image. Our dreams are assemblages of these stored images that flicker past our sub-conscious mind in almost motion-picture like quality.

 

Placing too much faith in the sequences our mysterious brain conjure up is a bit like reading tea leaves, IMO.

 

NORM

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Norm,

 

I agree with you that treating revelation, experience, and the subconscious as realms beyond reflection is an extremely problematic position.

 

At the same time, I'm extremely hesitant to say that experience is to be fully discounted. I realize that isn't what you said, but I'm curious if you could speak more about how experience 'fits in' for you.

 

Also, I do not believe that experience, even revelation, need to be defined in supernatural terms. Inspiration, even if left to cognitive science in its entirety, is still a very powerful and important things. But again, beyond knowing I don't want to dismiss it or unreflexively accept it, I'm not 100% what to do with it. Opinions?

Edited by Nick the Nevermet
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Also, I do not believe that experience, even revelation, need to be defined in supernatural terms. Inspiration, even if left to cognitive science in its entirety, is still a very powerful and important things. But again, beyond knowing I don't want to dismiss it or unreflexively accept it, I'm not 100% what to do with it. Opinions?

 

Nor do I.

 

Experience is useful for very practical things; like knowing from experience that when I touch a hot stove, I get burned.

 

However, in the realm of "big ideas" I realize that my experience is only parochial - I can only understand what I've experienced in my own little world. For example, despite having traveled to numerous continents and countries, I have only experienced about one one-hundredth of the world's cultures. So, my "experience" is hardly worth a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things.

 

I think that in the world of ideas and psycho-social constructs, we are even smaller fish in a big sea.

 

Further, when it comes to sensory perception (mind you; we only see a fraction of the spectrum that is all around us), we are very much at a disadvantage.

 

Hopefully this illumines my meaning.

 

NORM

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Paxcalibur is real alright. Here's the complete story. This is proof that sometimes personal spiritual revelation is sanctioned by God and others partake in it. Christianity is being resanctified in our times because the Gospels cannot be verified by anyone and thus leave Christian believers dependent on unbelievable hearsay. This may do for blind faith believers but is not acceptable to those who need to know what it is they believe in.

And that was the only aforementioned source I could find for it mentioned before but the site is clearly biased in favor of the supernatural by a vested believer and not a reliable source nor is it a peer reviewed study. For all we know, the sword could be a forgery and this story could be a scam like the Shroud of Turin. Forgeries claiming to be authentic religious icons like the nails of Jesus are rampant in the middle East. Some people even claimed to have found the the tomb of Jesus and even his foreskin but these have later been debunked. Until I see a peer reviewed study from a reliable source which verifies the account, I remain skeptical of the story.
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Paxcalibur is real alright. Here's the complete story. This is proof that sometimes personal spiritual revelation is sanctioned by God and others partake in it. Christianity is being resanctified in our times because the Gospels cannot be verified by anyone and thus leave Christian believers dependent on unbelievable hearsay. This may do for blind faith believers but is not acceptable to those who need to know what it is they believe in.

Waterbear,

 

Is this your best evidence? Anonymous Internet websites are not credible sources and fall far short of "proof." I would be interested if you could cite a better source.

 

George

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If a supernatural deity does exist, I think that belief in that god should be based on faith alone, not in personal subjective experiences or fancy philosophical arguments. Hebrews says that it is faith which is the evidence of things not seen; it doesn't say miraculous healings or the Sword of Peace are the evidence.

Edited by Neon Genesis
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If a supernatural deity does exist, I think that belief in that god should be based on faith alone, not in personal subjective experiences or fancy philosophical arguments. Hebrews says that it is faith which is the evidence of things not seen; it doesn't say miraculous healings or the Sword of Peace are the evidence.

 

It seems to me that faith exists on the level of second-order cognition. I observe something, think something through, feel something... and then I can ask how that thing fits into the 'big picture'. For me, this means that subjective experience and philosophical argumentation are indirect related to faith, but one cannot guarantee a rational argument will lead someone to faith in 6 steps, you'll see God in the face of a happy child, or anything else.

 

Similarly, the existence of a miracle does not mean, automatically, one must believe. There are some extra steps between "the laws of the universe were suspended temporarily" and "therefore, this clearly is a demonstration of a loving God, whose love I feel deeply and cannot deny." Far too often, Christian apologists think there is a simple if-then link between those two, and there's really not. A does not necessarily lead to B, and B does not require A.

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A belief in miracles and philosophical arguments may provide comfort and reassurance for some Christians but if the existence of God could be proven through miracles and philosophy, then it would take away the need for faith.

Edited by Neon Genesis
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