Gaston Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Hello all, I'm new here, I'm a Christian Canadian and I have just been kicked out of a fundemental forum called christianity.com I'm not sure if anyone has visited there but it's still a cool site, the moderators are obviously the problem. I mean, how do you have Christian forum and expect to challenge the moderators if they are fundies and you are not? LOL, what a joke that was. Anyways, phew, I have found my home here now. Please accept me, I mean you all no harm and I'm fun!!! I'm just wondering if anyone would like to read my opinions on things? Gaston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AletheiaRivers Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Please accept me, I mean you all no harm and I'm fun!!! Anybody who likes Tron is great in my book. Did ya hear they are going to remake it? They better do it justice or heads will roll! Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you. Aletheia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irreverance Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Welcome. I'll have to check out your previous haunt. (Just curious as to what happens there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Welcome here! I went over to christianity.com.... well it is pretty fundamentalist. Even have a forum about the End times. How did you get kicked off? Just morbid curiousity....hehehe. (only if you feel comfortable though). --des Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Welcome here! I went over to christianity.com.... well it is pretty fundamentalist. Even have a forum about the End times. How did you get kicked off? Just morbid curiousity....hehehe.(only if you feel comfortable though). --des No problem, I just was myself and was pushing the boundaries of fundementalist dogma. They didn't like that - apparently it's a threat to their distorted worldview. My girlfriend emailed the moderators for me (since I'm banned I can't even respond to them, the nice Christians that they are) and of course they haven't emailed me back. Anyways, these people like them, the Christian right and such are going down hard. They voted in Bush, so they're going to get what they deserve. They're going to pay for all the mischeif and hatred they cause in America. I wouldn't be surprised if they try and separate into another country and get destroyed. They've done it to themselves, unfortunately and God will punish them. I'm not Islamic here, but I actually think that God has put it in Muslims hearts to destroy these people. Hence things like september 11 and Iraqi insurgency. It won't end until they either repent or die. I'm not trying to scare anyone because ultimately they are our brothers and sisters and I will stick up for them even if they do not deserve it (no, they don't deserve it but Christ teaches to turn the other cheek and love your enemies, something these people will unfortunately have to learn the hard way) Peace, Gaston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Just to clarify that for anyone who thinks I'm being a little harsh, it's not ME who wishes harm on them, it's God's will if harm comes to them in His punishment. I personally don't think they really deserve it, only their deceivers do. But if God has put it in other's hearts to do His Will, who are we to question that? However I don't believe they need be harmed. But often terror is the only way to convince a bad person to stop doing things (aka stop American terrorism) And American terrorism is the worst kind because it's accepted. I think that's what God's upset about and so He will send judgement to America, unfortunately (though it looks like this time it's in the form of economic collapse) Peace, Gaston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AletheiaRivers Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Gaston, I hear your frustration and anger and I sympathize. But- Perhaps you shouldn't judge or categorize all "fundamentalists" by those that you encountered at that web sight. Not all "fundamentalists" are the same in beliefs or personality. My mom is quite conservative and she doesn't cause "hatred or mischief" in America. Aletheia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 You are right but I know that. This is the problem. It's not that she's mean or hateful or anything, but the policies she supports in both her religious views and government are causing harm to many people worldwide. Did she vote for Bush? Is she part of the Christian right? If so, she's unwittingly contributing to the furthering of wrongful actions by these Christians and is actually lumped in with them since they're doing things together like causing Bush to win again. We know what Bush's policies lead to. It has nothing to do necessarily with their demeanor. Gaston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Anyways, these people like them, the Christian right and such are going down hard. They voted in Bush, so they're going to get what they deserve. They're going to pay for all the mischeif and hatred they cause in America. I wouldn't be surprised if they try and separate into another country and get destroyed. They've done it to themselves, unfortunately and God will punish them. I'm not Islamic here, but I actually think that God has put it in Muslims hearts to destroy these people. Hence things like september 11 and Iraqi insurgency. It won't end until they either repent or die. I'm not trying to scare anyone because ultimately they are our brothers and sisters and I will stick up for them even if they do not deserve it (no, they don't deserve it but Christ teaches to turn the other cheek and love your enemies, something these people will unfortunately have to learn the hard way) Woah there, I don't agree with the Christian Right, but it is *because* of attitudes like retribution. So I don't agree with you that we take on the same attitudes only opposite. Of course you have the right to say them, but I don't agree with it. We might have helped bring on 9-11, by our behavior in the Middle east, and the Bush administration certainly brought on increased Iraqi insurgency by the war in Iraq. Is that what you mean? If that's what you mean then I definitely agree. Unfortunately many innocent people have been involved in the Bush (and other) policies. It won't end until they either repent or die. I'm not trying to scare anyone because ultimately they are our brothers and sisters and I will stick up for them even if they do not deserve it (no, they don't deserve it but Christ teaches to turn the other cheek and love your enemies, something these people will unfortunately have to learn the hard way) Gaston Hmm, but "repent or die" sounds like you are asking for their retribution. Maybe there is karma (I am open to the idea anyway), but as far as I understand, in Karma, you change your behavior and gradually you aquire better karma. But as for retribution.... You aren't *scaring* me, but you sound like you might be a bit *scarred* by your experiences with extreme fundamentalism. I certainly have been (I think) by my experiences with my sister who works for Campus Crusade. The thing with me is that I don't tend to trust people wtih more conservative views and think they are ready to pounce. A James something came in and said some quite moderate things that he was just wanting to find out things. I feel I pounced on him given my experiences of being questioned where the person involved knows the answer and is trying to test you and then works towards converting you. I really don't think now that James was doing that, but I reacted as if he were. So one can take one's attitudes and apply them to situations that aren't appropriate. You could be effected by being around people with a punishment oriented idea of the universe. Do you believe God is a God fo Love? Or of wrath? Not sure that s/he can be both. BTW, do all thing I'm all wet here. Please advise gently. :-) --des Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Woops I reread this. (I am always doing this). Think it will be easier to just do another post. As I agree with my previous one. But do you really believe God is sending judgement that caused 9-11 or the Iraqi insurgency? If so s/he would be quite a nasty God that wouldn't discriminate between people who actually inflicted the current policies and innocents (including young boys holding guns), Iraqis, who are no doubt being killed at a higher rate than Americans, etc. I think some humans have better morals than that! --des Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Woops I reread this. (I am always doing this). Think it will be easier to just do another post. As I agree with my previous one. But do you really believe God is sending judgement that caused 9-11 or the Iraqi insurgency? If so s/he would be quite a nasty God that wouldn't discriminate between people who actually inflicted the current policies and innocents (including young boys holding guns), Iraqis, who are no doubt being killed at a higher rate than Americans, etc. I think some humans have better morals than that! --des Don't worry, I don't even know how to edit. There doesn't seem to be an option here? Moderators? Well my thing is that I usually take a more devils advocate side and poke fun in a lighthearted way that usually gets construed as if I actually think that way (though I'm just making it blatenly obvious through sarcasm that I think the opposite and I think what I think because I think it's right and I prove it by pointing out the opposite of whatever reason I think because it makes you see your flaw). However, only the people who have gotten to know me on MBs understand this. If I find a new site (like Christianity, no, ESPECIALLY Christianity.com) I'm posting things that are going to make you mad, well it's making you mad because you see your fault, at least, not because I'm necessarily mean (though waaaaaaaaaay too fascetious for my own good, I suppose) I ask God to help me with it but I'm just too into it at times to realize it. Hence this MB. However, despite these problems, I still think that technique is just the best way to advise someone that they are at fault (not wrong, wrong beliefs can be talked over) because in the end it IS lighthearted. You have to admit that I'm just being nice about you being wrong (usually only provoked because YOU said that I was wrong first, um, no buddy, look out....) Know what I mean? It's just my cyber personality (well it's my actual personality too, I get in trouble all the time because I'm never serious about serious things, I guess.) I'm actually a very happy man! Now, the thing with fu fundementalists is that it's almost futile to even show them straight up that you're in the right according to, oh, I don't know, FACTS! If I do this in such a way that they are completely stripped of their logic in huge massive fell blows, what should I expect? People don't like being shown things like Nike human rights violations, ozone depletion specifically from a type of SUV that they drive, or even that Muslims worship the same God as Jews and that God is one of the God's in the Trinity (and the one God that those three are a part of also!) I mean, most of these people MUST be older individuals, sometimes I'm just shocked to read what they post. Sometimes it bothers me and that's why I can be harsh, but I really just feel sorry for them. I was thinking about it more today and there's so much disaster in the world as of late, this ongoing tsunami stuff, them, the war in Iraq basically going on because of them, the hypocrisy of that, etc. Oh well. Here's my reply: Woah there, I don't agree with the Christian Right, but it is *because* of attitudes like retribution. So I don't agree with you that we take on the same attitudes only opposite. Of course you have the right to say them, but I don't agree with it. No no, harm as retribution is an oxymoron as a Christian, remember? That's the problem with them! It's an eye for an eye. They're basically Jews (or they're not, but most doctrine they believe in mimics Judaism, not Christianity) People can be put in their place in loving non violent ways. Everybody wins. Hence the actual problem with radical Islamists. Most of the mouth of the Christian right support a "Christian" form of jihad against radical Islam. We're in a holy war, don't forget. Bush wasn't joking when he called it a crusade. Hence, Iraq caused basically by radical religious fundementalism. That's called a "holy war" or a "crusade" where I'm from (Canada, yay!) We might have helped bring on 9-11, by our behavior in the Middle east, and the Bush administration certainly brought on increased Iraqi insurgency by the war in Iraq. Is that what you mean? If that's what you mean then I definitely agree. Unfortunately many innocent people have been involved in the Bush (and other) policies. Yes, that's what I mean, but it's the republicans voting the extremists in. Whether or not a guy like Kerry would do something like the Iraq war is silly. Of course he would, you don't actually think the president has anything to do with the country, do you? However, on the surface value the democrats are less extreme. Therefore it's like Chomsky says, if you're a red or blue state you just keep voting and if it's a swing state you simply just use common sense and vote for the guys who are less extreme. Unfortunaly, despite all that dumb surface stuff (things like that make me mad, it's like at that other site it was the same people fanatically arguing how Muslims don't worship God while at the same time thousands of Iraqi's die under their support) They don't see the big things, just the shallow charisma of a cowboy. Furthermore, in my opinion, the government is controlled from other places, like corporations and media and elite sponsorship (not to mention the fact that THOSE are sponsered by the very top elites) Hmm, but "repent or die" sounds like you are asking for their retribution. Maybe there is karma (I am open to the idea anyway), but as far as I understand, in Karma, you change your behavior and gradually you aquire better karma. But as for retribution.... Not sure about Kharma, though I think it's in around the whole balance concept of an eye for an eye or yin/yang. Also perhaps the whole free will argument. It's not knowable, though things like retribution and kharma are very appealing when wrong doing has occured. They are present all through the old testement, the book the fundementalists regard more even than the new. THAT'S what needs to change, actually it's not even that we are abandoning the OT (a tragedy if) but we are not to take it so meaningfully for our day and age, we have to improvise. I don't think these people are capable of that, furthermore if they are, it's to be dynamic about furthering that way! (aka Karl Rove) I'm a jazz musician, so I improvise. You can probably tell it in my posts anyways, I never once thought of Karl Rove as an improviser but of course, he'd have to be! (but he only plays big band, not any others... ) You aren't *scaring* me, but you sound like you might be a bit *scarred* by your experiences with extreme fundamentalism. I certainly have been (I think) by my experiences with my sister who works for Campus Crusade. The thing with me is that I don't tend to trust people wtih more conservative views and think they are ready to pounce. A James something came in and said some quite moderate things that he was just wanting to find out things. I feel I pounced on him given my experiences of being questioned where the person involved knows the answer and is trying to test you and then works towards converting you. I really don't think now that James was doing that, but I reacted as if he were. So one can take one's attitudes and apply them to situations that aren't appropriate. Nah, this post is just my first one. There's no need to argue or be tough with anyone here because we all think the same kinda. This first post was nothing short of a hissy rant venting my feelings towards just having been kicked off a board that has hijacked the domain of what I'd like to call my religion too (though if they have the monopoly I suppose I'm screwed, eh? ) I really don't ultimately care if they get theirs or not, that's not up to me, it's up to God and if anything these are people that I am commanded to love, yet for the most part have nothing in common with and have to watch at the same time as they cause America to implode. WE here are the only people who aren't to be feared about most things. It's like the whole argument against homosexuals, I mean really, as if tomorrow there will be some magical astronomical rise in crime if gays are allowed to marry. Sheesh. Fritz Stein, a holocaust survivor turned psychologist thinks the Christian right bears STRIKING semblance to the Nazi german public. I'm sure you've heard that quote by Goering: "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - from the Nuremburg trials Because in many ways that's what this is all about. However it's deeper. The dichotomy of left and right have been reattached and now the neoliberals and neocons are the same. They're doing the same things, want the same power, and are the reasons for why America is crumbling. You could be effected by being around people with a punishment oriented idea of the universe. Do you believe God is a God fo Love? Or of wrath? Not sure that s/he can be both. See, that's just it, I really don't care. But God does. He cares about dead Iraqi's. We'd (they'd) have Him believe He only cares about 3000 dead New Englanders and American soldiers. I guess what I'm trying to say is that justice will be served if it is God's Will. Vengeance IS God's, not man's. That's...what their problem is all about... I'm just fed up with them, that's all. I give up... BTW, do all thing I'm all wet here. Please advise gently. :-) Not sure what you mean here, was it a typo to say "thing" not think? Um, furthermore, lol, you're wet? I see, des. Good luck with that Gaston : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Well Gaston, it wouldn't be the first time (on this board) that I did not quite get irony. I'm autistic (very high functioning)-- and I often take things quite literally esp. some types of humor, as Aletheia has found out. Just bare with me here and I will catch on to your, uh, unique style. As for editing, I do actually know how. There was just so MUCH to edit, I mighta had to retype the whole thing. All wet, --des :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest admin Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 (You can edit posts if it is within thirty minutes of your initial posting. There will be a little edit button in the corner of your post...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherRog Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Des, Wow. You indeed are very high functioning! I guess I'm sort of interested in the fact that you tend to take things literally (something Fundamentalists often do with their interpretation of the Bible) and yet you are cleary progressive in your faith. I wonder if you've ever thought about this irony and what you make of it. Also, I wonder if you take the Bible literally and are progressive because of that (this would be an interesting dynamic), or if you are progressive in that you tend not to take it literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Hi BR, Yes, I have Aspergers (though maybe PDD-NOS would have been a better fit). I believe there is a continuum from normal to severely autistic and everything in between. I had serious problems in childhood and early adulthood, but learned how to get around my difficulties to a great extent. No, I don't take the Bible literally. Though some autistics are fundamentalists (I know a very Orthodox Jew), I actually think taking it literally requires a lot more working around. There are (too me) clearly absurd stories, though they have resonance at some level often. For example start taking apart the stories of Noah (with five mile water and animals coming on two by two, etc.). I am very interested in science and to take many of these stories as literal requires you to give up science and more rational thinking and "believe". There are also many inconsistencies. I think it is a bit ironic. OTOH, I think for someone with a scientific bent, if not aptitude, it is *hard* to read the Bible as literal fact. I think taking the Bible literally is something of a leap of faith (which I don't agree with). I've also found that fundamentalists tend to be opposed to things like evolution, the Earth and universe being millions (if not billions of years old), etc. People (verus books), even online, otoh, are more difficult to determine their motivations, the reason they might write something. I do better if I have time to contemplate something a bit. I think my dad was somewhat Aspergers, he was a very devout, maybe I'd say militant Christian Scientist. He was somewhat against the church taking a more fundamentalist belief that Mary Baker Eddy was something like the second coming. BTW, admin, I have since figured out how to edit posts. Thanks, --des Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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