The Urantia Papers

[minsocal]

Myron,

 

 

(I am not sure which emoticon has a wry smile.)

 

Two Omega Point Theories with theological implications. Who knew. Now i'm left looking into both.

 

Myron

[Brent]

Friends,

 

As more resources (time) becomes available, I’ll try to be more thorough in reviewing the questions raised in this more ‘free-flowing’ discussion of the UPapers. I’m finding all of your comments to be very heartening.

 

For now, I’d like to address Bill’s post, in part.

 

Bill, you described as having identified in the past, (3 or 4) paths, or ways, to reconcile the disconnect which you experienced in your faith understanding.

 

At this point in your perusal of the UPapers, it seems to you that the authors have taken the second path of “constructing a larger “belief system” or paradigm that could account 100% for all of the data.” I can vouch that you're not alone in judging this as "WAY too complicated".

 

There being no question that the UPapers present a heckuva complex panorama, you’ve reached a natural (though perhaps interim) conclusion regarding the authors’ motivations. I wouldn’t be surprised if you haven’t also considered that they may well have had other reasons that haven’t occurred to you yet. A brief rendering of the circumstances under which this material was originally presented might suggest far-reaching purposes.

 

Dr. William Sadler (sometimes called the father of American psychiatry) had the ‘sleeping subject’ under observation for at least 20 years before mentioning the peculiarities of his case to a social group of friends meeting at his home on Sunday afternoons in Chicago. Dr. Sadler was stymied and was completely unable to categorize the phenomena. After his mention of the case, a suggestion was made that he verbally present questions of the group to the ‘voices’ that conversed through the sleeping subject.

 

The response received by Dr. Sadler from the ‘voices’ was that “If you knew what you were in contact with, you would cease asking trivial questions.” This challenged the doctor, and at the next Sunday gathering he had his social friends compose the most difficult questions they could think of. The UPapers were produced over the next 5-6 years (1928-1934) through an evolving interaction with the group (the Forum). Part IV was different, being unexpectedly presented by the authors after the other parts had been refined interactively with Forum members over those years.

 

In other words, Parts I-III weren’t just plopped down but were in a sense ‘asked for’ by human beings in the late 20’s and early 30’s of the last century. As you read (or listen) to the UPapers 80 years later, try imagining how those regular folks might have reacted to this information.

 

Also consider, if you will, that this material will be scrutinized by many people of diverse persuasions for many years to come. Imo, it seems wise to have offered mankind something comprehensive, thought admittedly complex, in nature.

 

Now, your knack for reduction to the lowest common denominator definitely identifies you as a kindred soul. When speaking of God’s love, I smilingly favor the term “most common denominator”.

 

As you take your time discovering the depth of values presented by the authors, I predict that you will recognize some startling simplicities of just the sort that you so much appreciate. A few quick examples from Part IV come to my mind, but there are many, many more:

 

“The ultimate goal of human progress is the reverent recognition of the fatherhood of God and the loving materialization of the brotherhood of man.” 143:1:3

 

“In preaching the gospel of the kingdom, you are simply teaching friendship with God.” 159:3:9

 

Jesus said: “Again do I declare: He who has seen me has seen the Father.” 180:3:9

 

“Sonship with God, by faith, is still the saving truth of the gospel of the kingdom. You are to go forth preaching the love of God and the service of man. That which the world needs most to know is: Men are the sons of God, and through faith they can actually realize, and daily experience, this ennobling truth.” 193:0:4

 

And the last sentence on the last page: “When all is said and done, the Father idea is still the highest human concept of God.”

 

I’m gonna take a break here, friends, and try to address Bill’s more personal questions later.

 

Love and blessings,

Brent

Edited August 23, 2011 by Brent

[Guest billmc]

Hi Brent,

 

Thanks for taking the time and effort to respond to my prior post on the UP. As you referenced, yes, I’m still interested in how the UP have changed your life.

 

I was also interested in what the BoU has to say about Jesus of Nazareth. So I’ve listened to a couple of the chapters about Michael’s bestowal upon Urantia as Jesus, as well as to a couple of chapters about what Jesus did and taught. Again, very interesting stuff. While there are a lot of similarities between the Christian gospels and the UP about what Jesus did and taught, there are also some important differences. On the positive side, I found many “progressive teachings” attributed to Jesus in the UP accounts which do not appear in the Christian gospels. To me, the source of these teachings seem to rest more upon fairly recent historical/critical methods of Bible study and the progression of human understanding than upon a revelation from the UP “Paradise” or some other level of heaven, but that is just my opinion. It is also interesting that the UP has Jesus demystifying his own miracles, something liberal/progressive scholars have done for the past couple of centuries.

 

So, on a positive note, and again imo, the UP presents us with a view of Jesus’ life and teachings which, in many ways, tries to catch up with our own social, philosophical, and cultural progress. I find these interesting and worthy of discussion.

 

And yet…

 

On a more negative note, and again imo, the setting for all of this is embedded in “truth claims” grounded in un-provable metaphysical “realities” that simply can’t be substantiated by either science or reason i.e. seven universes, Paradise, Seven-fold God, Michael is Jesus, the continuation of personal consciousness after death, and many other things which, I suppose, must be accepted on faith alone. And, as I’ve mentioned before, the UP seems to be the result of many years of contemplation, trying to make all of the pieces fit into a harmonious whole which, imo, shares the pitfalls of “systematic theology” that has to write 30 1000-page volumes in order to make the 66 books of the Bible harmonize with each other.

 

I realize there are others in this thread with their questions, so I don’t want to hog it or your time. But I would like to close with a positive note, if I may. About four years ago (if memory serves), I publically confronted someone on this board for that person’s claims to be channeling Jesus. While I am still a skeptic towards anyone’s “holy book” and/or their supernatural experiences, my challenge was wrong because the only concern I had at the time was “authority”, not truth, not connection. To my shame, I dismissed out of hand this person’s posts, not because of their content, because I dismissed this person’s claimed method of transmission. I felt that if I couldn’t believe the “superstitious nature” of how this person arrived at what they wanted to share, their message wasn’t worth sharing. Again, I was wrong. I don’t want to make that same mistake again.

 

So while I don’t find the UP to be authoritative to me or to be the source of all truth, and while I find many of the claims made in the UP to be unverifiable and relying on faith, there is, imo, (and like the Bible) some truth to be found there, and many ideas worth of consideration, especially the more pragmatic ones. If I had the time, I would read all of the UP and, as I do with the Bible, try to separate the chaff from the wheat *for me*, for my own life and application. And I may do so at some point, although I can tell it would be a huge undertaking. The book, like most “holy books”, claims to be THE truth and admonishes that ALL of it should be read in order to understand any of it. So I’ll put it in my “You need to read this when you get time” stack. But I feel like God has already placed within my heart what is core, what is central – love God, love others.

 

Best regards,

billmc

[JenellYB]

Brent wrote: "Dr. William Sadler (sometimes called the father of American psychiatry)"

 

Brent, do you have some kind of reference that can independently document this? I will be very honest, in having turned my attention to trying to learn something about Dr. Sadler and others associated with the Urantia papers, I'm very uncomfortable with what I'm finding.

 

Perhaps you can provide some resources for directly addressing some of these issues ofconcern to me.

 

As for your statement above, 1st, havong recently completed a BS in psychology, with incluuded coursesin Abnormal and Clinical Psychology,(which deal with the same major mental illnesses as tradtionally addressed with Psychiiatry, I can't recall any reference to this man, and now having gone through the indices of my textbooks from those courses, in which all persons cited or referenced in those texts are catalogued, did not find even a single reference to him. Anyone considered even by some part of these fields would, I think, at least mention someone consider 'the father of american psychiatry'.

As best my research has found so far, Dr. Sadler held an M.D., was a medical doctor, but no reference anywhere outside Urantia related sources to his having held any degree or been formally recognized as either a psychiatrist or a psychologist.

 

Also of concern, far from having a background that would indiicate he was an entirely scientific and pragmatic man, his back ground was with the early Seventh Day Adventisits. with personal connection to Ellen White, a self-proclaimed "prophet", and a religious movement out of which orginated a number of fringe groups and groups of questionable "cult' nature, including the Branch Davidian cult involved in the disaster in Waco, Texas a few years ago, rasies serious questions aboutthis evaluation of his postion.

 

Dr.Sadler aparantly became involved in this Urantia papers matter after having broken from Seventh Day Adventists and Ellen White's organization under unpleasant circumstances.

 

In one of my Psychology/Religious Studies "cross-over" courses, examining how dysfunction canarise within relgious scultures and movements, the Branch Davidians cult,beginningwith its origins withinthe Ellen White Seventh Day Advantist movement, was actually the case we studied in depth in exploring how evenseemingly sane, rational, intellegent people can be drawn into a process in which they progressively move further and further from consensus reality and rational world view. We also looked at that analysis in context of efforts at psychological/emotional "deprogramming" involved in retrieving someone from a cult influence. Based not only on the information regarding the Seventh day Adventist movement as I encountered in school,but on a good deal of personal contact with several segments of my extended family that are involved with that group, I do think Seventh Day Adventist IS a cult, does meet theological as well as psychological criteria as a cult.

 

Some resources to clear concerns such as these appreciated.

 

Jenell

[JenellYB]

Just to help clarifiy a common misunderstanding....the differences and relationship between Psychiatry and Clinical or Abnormal Psychology....

 

Both deal primarily with the MAJOR mental illnesses and brain diseases, most of which have an ORGANIC component, such as schizophrenia, but from a different perspective. For this reason, many such patients are treated concurrently by BOTH a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist.

 

Psychiatry is based on the medical model, thus the required training as a medical doctor. The Psychiatrist most often uses medications and medical proceedures in the treatment/management of major mental illness.

 

A Psychologist addresses the behavioral, cognitive and psychological aspects of the patient's treatment and management...ie, helping the person deal with and adapt to the particular problems with life the illness itself presents for them.

 

In light of this, I do not understand why Dr.Sadler, supposedly a Psychiatrist, would have been attending to SS's incidents of 'unusual state' on a regular basis...usually, a psychiatrist would have attended medical testing to attempt to discover a physical cause, personally sitting with a patient experiencing on going abnormal episodes would not usually be something a psychiatrists would consider part of his task.

 

These are serious questions for me about this topic.

 

Jenell

[JenellYB]

Brent, I feel I need to put some percpetive to my postion here...it is not my intent to treat this topic, you, or your beleifs in a manner that is disresptful or dismissive....honestly I would NOT have expended the time or energy I have toward researching the Urantia papers and their source and orgin if that were the case.

 

But I am a very pragmatic and logic oriented thinker, and in anything I consider upon, am definitely the "why?" kid...

 

You've stressed it seems, that any true evaluation of the Urantia papers requires reading them entirely, and that we are talking about a pretty massive text...I know I am not alone in that I already have a pretty formidable "must read" list, and forevery bookI finish reading there are at least a dozen more pulled out of my book stores awaiting me on my desk....and I've just just now begun to formidable undertaking of aquiring and reading the works of Carl Jung as I can locate them foran affordable cost.

What I'm saying is, not only myself, but others here, need some substantial reason to devote that much time and effort to reading such a hefty tome that is admittedly heavy going for even advanced readers.

 

Can you give us that? What have the Urantia papers to offer us we can't get elswhere more easily ,or do not already have?

 

Jenell

[Brent]

Hi Jenell,

 

I hope that my recommendation of the UPapers has not been perceived as insistence that they be read/studied in their entirety. Just as I have multiple demands upon my time, I fully understand that everyone here likewise has their own.

 

All I’ve intended, in good spirit and friendship, is to introduce what I feel is a magnificent resource. I advise anyone considering their value to take their time and enjoy the UPapers as they see fit. Whether or not folks agree with my assessment is not really a huge concern for me, as it quite likely may reflect more upon my communication skills more than it does the value of the tome.

 

I’ve enjoyed and appreciated all of the very respectful and kind responses from the list. My intention is to continue sharing some of the major themes found within the UP from time to time. Perhaps someone will find these worthy of discussion.

 

Many blessings,

Brent

[Brent]

Hi Jenell,

 

Just seeing your question about Dr. Sadler, I'll respond later with more info...

 

Have a great day,

Brent

[GeorgeW]

I’ve enjoyed and appreciated all of the very respectful and kind responses from the list. My intention is to continue sharing some of the major themes found within the UP from time to time. Perhaps someone will find these worthy of discussion.

Brent,

 

Maybe a way of presenting the UP is in the context of other discussions in addition to making them the topic of discussion. That might demonstrate the quality of the writings and the relevance to our lives and ideas.

 

George

[minsocal]

Dr. Sadler was well known around the Chicago area. He held several titles, one of those being Fellow, American Psychiatric Society.

 

Myron

[Brent]

Friends,

 

Perhaps I can address a couple of questions without getting too wordy.

 

Jenell: I wish you success on finding Jungian material. When I lived in Honolulu in the early ‘70s, my library card at the university enabled me to bring home his 22 (or 23) volume of collected works, which I read. I also had Man and His Symbols and Memories, Dreams, and Reflections. Here’s my understanding of why Dr. Sadler was involved with the ‘sleeping subject’ (or ‘contact personality’):

 

Dr. Sadler’s wife, Dr. Lena (Kellogg) Sadler, also had a practice in Chicago at the time (around 1906-1908). She was very active in reproductive health and women’s issues. A colleague of Lena’s, who worked in the same building as her practice, came to her for help after being unable to awaken her husband during episodes of verbalization during his sleep. Both Drs. William and Lena Sadler agreed to observe the phenomena at its next occurrence.

 

Dr. Sadler (having had deep connections which had been eventually severed – by excommunication - with Seventh Day Adventism and their “prophetess”, Ellen White) was very keen to debunk psychic, spiritualistic, channeling phenomena, etc. He actually enjoyed and went out of his way exposing fraudulent or delusional claims.

 

The ‘contact personality’ was a securities trader and Chicago Board of Trade member who was basically uninterested in what was happening with no conscious awareness of anything which transpired. The Sadler’s observation of his nocturnal abnormalities began as merely doing a favor and out of curiosity. This went on for over 20 years before Dr. Sadler happened to mention the strange case at one of the Sunday afternoon social gatherings at his home. Technically, this man was not a patient and these episodes seemed to have no effect on his normal functioning.

 

George: If I can be of service by offering relevant perspectives from the UPapers in the context of other discussions I am glad to, and have done so. I certainly will seek to avoid fanatical ‘thread-hog’ interjections.

 

Myron: Dr. Sadler was quite versatile and renowned, also teaching at several seminaries including pastoral counseling at McCormick Theological.

 

Many blessings,

Brent

Edited August 26, 2011 by Brent

[minsocal]

Brent,

 

Dr. Sadler was a student of Freud, and associate of Jung and Adler. He spent a year in Vienna studying their theories of the unconscious. Whether Jung, an expert on Gnosticism, maintained contact with Sadler I do not know at this time. Jung, however, would have understood the content of the Urantia Papers.

 

Myron

[JenellYB]

Myron, thank you for your input, you present things I had not discovered in my own efforts to research Dr. Sadler. Brent, the material in your post is something I had already read in my internet browsings.

 

On reading my way through Jung's works...of course his complete collected works as well as separately published works were accessable to me while I was attending UH toward my degree in recent years (2008 grad). I also had a number of occasions to spend time curled up in a library chair with various volumes as I delved through them for various references relevant to term papers and other projects, but not actually work my way through fully reading them.

But as I imagine anyone that has tackled full time college studies, one thing the college experience did was utterly deprive me of much opportunity to pursue reading that I chose at will, for my own enjoyment or interests. I have long lists of books and authors I encountered during my years in college, that I hoped to be able to find time to read someday, when the grind of assigned college reading was behind me.

Jenell

I've decided this is my time for Jung. Many of his works can be found very cheap on auction sites like EBay, as well as used book sellers. I will also be checking the public library for some I can't get that way, but I'd prefer not having to worry about return/renewal dates as I take my time to read, think, re-read, to comprehend them. I do still have alumni access to the library at UH, but it's a round trip of well over 100 miles round trip, and right into the heart of downtown Houston. I did that trip multiple days a week for those years, looking back now, not quite sure how I actually did that!

Edited September 1, 2011 by JenellYB

[JenellYB]

I will go back and try to read more of the UP....my first effort was short-lived, to be honest, when I encountered all the space alien stuff and sci-fi sounding explanations of the nature of the cosmos. I still do not understand how any of that wouuld be relevant or contribute to any value of a wisdom work. Not trying to be hyper-critical, just honest and practical.

Jenell

[Brent]

Friends,

 

Among those PCers who’ve pondered some portions of the UPapers, I wonder if anyone has carefully read enough of the Foreward up through Paper 11, or so, to have developed an informed opinion on their unique exposition of the Paradise Trinity? Be that as it may, I realize how limited my own viewpoint can be as I’m humbly ignorant of the existence of a more satisfying presentation of the eternal Three-in-One.

 

For such sublime and profound concepts to have come from a soundly sleeping securities trader (totally unaware of what transpired) in Chicago circa the 1920's and 30's has caused many to wonder...How, who, and why?

 

Enjoy~

 

0:3.14 As a time-space creature would view the origin and differentiation of Reality, the eternal and infinite I AM achieved Deity liberation from the fetters of unqualified infinity through the exercise of inherent and eternal free will…(snip details about absolute divinity-tension, the Universal and Unqualified Absolutes).

 

0:3.15 In this original transaction the theoretical I AM achieved the realization of personality by becoming the Eternal Father of the Original Son simultaneously with becoming the Eternal Source of the Isle of Paradise. Coexistent with the differentiation of the Son from the Father, and in the presence of Paradise, there appeared the person of the Infinite Spirit and the central universe of Havona. With the appearance of coexistent personal Deity, the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit, the Father escaped, as a personality, from otherwise inevitable diffusion throughout the potential of Total Deity.

 

0:3.16 The concept of the I AM is a philosophic concession which we make to the time-bound, space-fettered, finite mind of man, to the impossibility of creature comprehension of eternity existences—nonbeginning, nonending realities and relationships. To the time-space creature, all things must have a beginning save only the ONE UNCAUSED—the primeval cause of causes. Therefore do we conceptualize this philosophic value-level as the I AM, at the same time instructing all creatures that the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit are coeternal with the I AM; in other words, that there never was a time when the I AM was not the Father of the Son and, with him, of the Spirit.

 

10:0.3 From the present situation on the circle of eternity, looking backward into the endless past, we can discover only one inescapable inevitability in universe affairs, and that is the Paradise Trinity. I deem the Trinity to have been inevitable. As I view the past, present, and future of time, I consider nothing else in all the universe of universes to have been inevitable. The present master universe, viewed in retrospect or in prospect, is unthinkable without the Trinity. Given the Paradise Trinity, we can postulate alternate or even multiple ways of doing all things, but without the Trinity of Father, Son, and Spirit we are unable to conceive how the Infinite could achieve threefold and co-ordinate personalization in the face of the absolute oneness of Deity. No other concept of creation measures up to the Trinity standards of the completeness of the absoluteness inherent in Deity unity coupled with the repleteness of volitional liberation inherent in the threefold personalization of Deity.

 

Moving on from consideration of these existential Paradise Deities, I think a few posts dedicated to the UPapers revelation of the origin and nature of our local universe Creator Son would be worthwhile.

 

Until then, A Dios,

Brent

[Brent]

Greetings PCers,

 

Brother Dutch is likely not alone with early impressions of Part I wherein are described a vast panorama of beings extending from Paradise and the Central Superuniverse out into the time-space creations which have led him to comment:

 

“I have not read these sections -

17. The Seven Supreme Spirit Groups

18. The Supreme Trinity Personalities

19. The Co-ordinate Trinity-Origin Beings

20. The Paradise Sons of God

21. The Paradise Creator Sons

22. The Trinitized Sons of God

23. The Solitary Messengers

24. Higher Personalities of the Infinite Spirit

25. The Messenger Hosts of Space

26. Ministering Spirits of the Central Universe

27. Ministry of the Primary Supernaphim

28. Ministering Spirits of the Superuniverses

29. The Universe Power Directors

30. Personalities of the Grand Universe

but this I why would question the claim of monotheism. Looks like monolatry and gnosticism to me with its demiurges and other family members.” Dutch

In hopes of aiding understanding, I will quote a reference from among many which point out how consistent with God’s loving nature is the creation of divine beings to whom he delegates powers and authority throughout the many thousands of galaxies formed and forming in the Grand (presently inhabited) and Master (presently uninhabited) time-space universes:

10:1.1 It would seem that the Father, back in eternity, inaugurated a policy of profound self-distribution. There is inherent in the selfless, loving, and lovable nature of the Universal Father something which causes him to reserve to himself the exercise of only those powers and that authority which he apparently finds it impossible to delegate or to bestow.

 

10:1.2 The Universal Father all along has divested himself of every part of himself that was bestowable on any other Creator or creature. He has delegated to his divine Sons and their associated intelligences every power and all authority that could be delegated. He has actually transferred to his Sovereign Sons, in their respective universes, every prerogative of administrative authority that was transferable. In the affairs of a local universe, he has made each Sovereign Creator Son just as perfect, competent, and authoritative as is the Eternal Son in the original and central universe. He has given away, actually bestowed, with the dignity and sanctity of personality possession, all of himself and all of his attributes, everything he possibly could divest himself of, in every way, in every age, in every place, and to every person, and in every universe except that of his central indwelling (Havona).

 

10:1.6 Since the Paradise Sons of God visit the evolutionary worlds and sometimes even there dwell in the likeness of mortal flesh, and since these bestowals make it possible for mortal man actually to know something of the nature and character of divine personality, therefore must the creatures of the planetary spheres look to the bestowals of these Paradise Sons for reliable and trustworthy information regarding the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

In the next few posts I’d like to share more from the UPapers about our own Creator Son, Christ Michael/Jesus of Nazareth, beginning with some quotes from one paper which Dutch listed above - PAPER 21: THE PARADISE CREATOR SONS.

 

Until later then, A Dios and have a beautiful week friends,

Brent

Edited September 6, 2011 by Brent

[glintofpewter]

I'll bite. How does this line up with the Shema of Deutronomy 6:4 or the First commandment of Exodus 20:2? Perhaps it is an expansion of the polytheistic vision of the Divine Council in Genesis Psalm 89:7 and Job 1:6 but it seems like multi-level marketing to me.

 

If there are multiple faces/entities/manifestations I prefer the African-American woman who likes to give hugs, and unfortunately goes by the name of papa, the shimmering Sarayu, and the carpenter and handy man Jesus as described in The Shack. Especially since they have acquired a small black poodle who likes to fetch and play tag.

 

Take Care

 

Dutch

[GeorgeW]

I think that all religions including monotheistic have multiple divine beings (see satan, angels, seraphim, etc). Even Islam which firmly states in its creedal statement that there is one god has angels, satan, jinn. What seems different in the UP, in this respect, is the formal delegation of power to "divine sons."

 

George

[JenellYB]

I must admit that my subsequent attempts at reading haven't fared any better than my initial ones..I still can't get past the pantheons and heirarchies of beings and model of the cosmos and what not, to find any common point of reference from which to relate any of it to myself, my life and experience of life, my existence within and relationship to my ground of being or my environment. I guess I just can't find any place for the rubber to meet the road...Perhaps if you could get beyond all those things, into how you feel the material has helped you in any of these contexts, I can find a place to get a handle on it...As others have suggested, perhaps you could work relevant excepts from the UP into some of the various topics discussed throughout the board, so we can see it that way.

 

I can see from your posts it is very important to you, and respect that, but just don't see any relevance to myself.

Best wishes,

Jenell

Edited September 6, 2011 by JenellYB

[Brent]

Hi Dutch, George, Jenell & friends

 

You wrote:

 

Perhaps it is an expansion of the polytheistic vision of the Divine Council in Genesis Psalm 89:7 and Job 1:6 but it seems like multi-level marketing to me. Dutch

 

I think that all religions including monotheistic have multiple divine beings … What seems different in the UP, in this respect, is the formal delegation of power to "divine sons." GeorgeW

 

I still can't get past the pantheons and heirarchies of beings and model of the cosmos and what not…Jenell

Firstly, I’d like to be clear that, imo, the teachings of UP are not (and have no business becoming) a ‘religion’. Secondly, I see the apparent monotheism?/polytheism?/Gnosticism? conundrum fully unraveled with in-depth study, which understandably requires an serious investment of time and effort. Lastly, I can’t overemphasize my overarching consideration that the forest not be lost in the trees, to wit: The paramount importance of the gospel of sonship/daughtership with God and the consequent brotherhood of man mustn’t be forgotten amidst complex and/or intellectually appealing cosmologies, theologies, and philosophies no matter how accurately these might reflect factual realities.

 

That said, since the sincere questions merit honest consideration, I could point to one quote which seems to apply:

 

From UP 32: The Evolution of Local Universes – Section 4: God’s Relation to a Local Universe

32:4.1 Do not entertain the idea that, since the Universal Father has delegated so much of himself and his power to others, he is a silent or inactive member of the Deity partnership. Aside from personality domains and Adjuster bestowal, he is apparently the least active of the Paradise Deities in that he allows his Deity co-ordinates, his Sons, and numerous created intelligences to perform so much in the carrying out of his eternal purpose. He is the silent member of the creative trio only in that he never does aught which any of his co-ordinate or subordinate associates can do.

 

I’m content to linger with these questions for a while if y’all like, before moving on with my intended closer look at our own Creator Son. Also, as I've said, I will enjoy contributing my take on UP perspectives to various other threads from time to time.

 

All the best blessings,

Brent

[glintofpewter]

32:4:1 is more than I can deal with. If you want to start with Jesus who I assume you are referring to with "Creator Son" I'll listen to a word or two but, to switch images, my eyes glaze over when I see a wall of quoted text. Tell me in your own words.

 

Dutch

[Brent]

My friends, neither am I partial to “wall(s) of text”, but I wouldn’t have thought those 3 sentences to be excessively difficult to “deal with” for such alert PC minds.

 

I’ll proceed with that constraint in mind, seeking to provide (God willing) something palatable for diverse appetites.

 

The Paradise residence of existential Trinity and the central superuniverse of Havona are described as never-beginning and never-ending, eternal.

 

The central Isle of Paradise and these (over one billion) perfect worlds are shielded from our view here in the time-space universes by a vast expanse of unique dark space bodies.

 

Perhaps some will enjoy stretching conception by attempting to grasp the immensities of seven trillion planets inhabited by mortal will creatures in the Grand Universe revolving around Havona, while an incalculable number of presently uninhabited galaxies are being formed beyond this in the Master Universe. Attempts to simplify the UP presentation of God’s gifts in the personality spectrum of Havona and the inhabited superuniverses to such fine works as “The Shack” could result in being penny wise and pound foolish in some ways.

 

The UP authors assert that each Paradise Creator Son “flashes into full-fledged being” “21:1.1 When the fullness of absolute spiritual ideation in the Eternal Son encounters the fullness of absolute personality concept in the Universal Father…”

21:0.1 The Creator Sons are the makers and rulers of the local universes of time and space. These universe creators and sovereigns are of dual origin, embodying the characteristics of God the Father and God the Son. But each Creator Son is different from every other; each is unique in nature as well as in personality; each is the "only-begotten Son" of the perfect deity ideal of his origin.

 

21:0.3 Sometimes we refer to the sovereign of your universe of Nebadon as Christ Michael. Always and forever do they reign after the "order of Michael," that being the designation of the first Son of their order and nature.

 

Future posts will explore the UP teaching that though Christ is not identified as the Second Person of Trinity this fact does not lessen his stature but in actuality makes it possible for him to be even more divinely versatile as a universe Sovereign.

 

Of significant note, we are told that the Creators Sons don’t work alone in the creation and administration of the local evolutionary universes (which eventually comprise 10 million inhabited spheres each):

21:2.2 When a Creator Son departs from Paradise to embark upon the adventure of universe making, to become the head—virtually the God—of the local universe of his own organization, then, for the first time, he finds himself in intimate contact with, and in many respects dependent upon, the Third Source and Center. The Infinite Spirit, though abiding with the Father and the Son at the center of all things, is destined to function as the actual and effective helper of each Creator Son. Therefore is each Creator Son accompanied by a Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit, that being who is destined to become the Divine Minister, the Mother Spirit of the new local universe.

 

To be continued, as time permits…

All the best blessings,

Brent

Edited September 7, 2011 by Brent

[minsocal]

Brent,

 

I think it would help if you tell us what intentions Dr. Sadler had in introducing the Urantia Papers. Is he talking about the comos inrtojected into human psychology or human psychology projected onto the cosmos?

 

Myron

[JosephM]

My friends, neither am I partial to “wall(s) of text”, but I wouldn’t have thought those 3 sentences to be excessively difficult to “deal with” for such alert PC minds.

 

I’ll proceed with that constraint in mind, seeking to provide (God willing) something palatable for diverse appetites.

 

The Paradise residence of existential Trinity and the central superuniverse of Havona are described as never-beginning and never-ending, eternal.

 

The central Isle of Paradise and these (over one billion) perfect worlds are shielded from our view here in the time-space universes by a vast expanse of unique dark space bodies.

 

Perhaps some will enjoy stretching conception by attempting to grasp the immensities of seven trillion planets inhabited by mortal will creatures in the Grand Universe revolving around Havona, while an incalculable number of presently uninhabited galaxies are being formed beyond this in the Master Universe. Attempts to simplify the UP presentation of God’s gifts in the personality spectrum of Havona and the inhabited superuniverses to such fine works as “The Shack” could result in being penny wise and pound foolish in some ways.

 

The UP authors assert that each Paradise Creator Son “flashes into full-fledged being” “21:1.1 When the fullness of absolute spiritual ideation in the Eternal Son encounters the fullness of absolute personality concept in the Universal Father…”

(snip)

All the best blessings,

Brent

 

Brent,

 

I have been following along in this thread reading posts but haven't commented as i gave up on reading the Upapers on the first page of this thread.. So i am reading your words here and i have to ask myself of what benefit would you think it might be to me to believe of the Central isle of Paradise or that there are over 1 billion perfect worlds, that there are over seven trillion planets inhabited by mortal will creatures, that there is a central superuniverse of Havona, etc etc By accepting these things as true which i can not verify, how will that bring me closer to knowing God, Truth, Love or help me bring more compassion to this world? How will that help me to live a more fruitful and loving life?

 

While i am aware, from my own personal experiences of realms and realities beyond this one and domains of an "astral" nature, it seems to me from my experience, they are all like detours in the road. I find that their are no higher beings to meet or spirit guides to appear, or amulets that need wearing, or sacred places to be, The pathway to God is to me not so complicated that it requires long volumes of study or knowledge of these realms or the intelligence to absorb such matters. Nor does it seem for me to require the acceptance of the words of other than the guide that is found within each of us. To me, God is self-revealing. To me the journey is more concerned with personal surrender, dedication, and devotion. So my sincere question to you in short would be ... what do these Upapers contain that i need to know to experience the presence of God that has not been said in any other book?

 

Sincerely,

Joseph

[minsocal]

Are you seeking to define "one path to G-d" based on your experience. That sounds like dogma.

 

Myron