The Dhammapada

[JosephM]

Thanks Derek,

 

I think i will leave the word "suchness" alone and to others such as Pai-Chang and Suzuki to explain or ponder. While some of it sounds like familiar territory, the breadth of it seems too deep intellectually for me. Makes my head hurt.

Joseph

[JenellYB]

I hadn't been reading this thread, but am struck by the parallels I see in some here, of making straight that which is crooked, etc, to some I've posted elsewhere pertaining to justification, as to make right, bring what is out of alignement into true alignment, and the 'pearl of great price' as the process through which justification is accomplished as a work in our journey, from a christocentric view.

Interesting how often it seems when I'm thinking along a certain line, I so often find others are too, even if it is being expressed in a different language.

 

Jenell

[rivanna]

A few things stood out for me in this chapter-- as Joseph noted, the teaching is similar to the bible (as it’s often interpreted), “be virtuous now for the sake of heavenly reward later.” Quite unlike the Buddhist perspective as I understand it. On the other hand, this chapter also says that the wise man is generous because giving to others brings him happiness, not to ensure his own afterlife. I read somewhere that “the heaven Buddha is speaking of is the limitless expanse of Infinite Consciousness.” Perhaps equivalent to Jesus speaking of eternal life.

The image of the moon emerging from a cloud, resonates with the idea of letting your light shine like a lamp, or Jesus as the light of the world. The author describes a lunar wisdom-- not the sun rising and dispelling night completely. The world is still in darkness, only a little less obscure- a limited affirmation.

Yet, the final verse makes a strong statement-- that choosing the path of wisdom is the most desirable thing in the universe. Entering the stream seems like a one-time event, then it’s a steady flow in one direction, you never leave it. If the stream is grace, don’t we experience it intermittently, not a constant presence? Maybe I’m being too simplistic. For what it’s worth here is a commentary on those lines (not sure who wrote it)--

“At one point in our evolution we reach the point where the momentum of our spiritual aspiration and merit ensures that we shall indeed move onward to Nirvana without hindrance. Effort will still be required, and obstacles will yet have to be overcome, but the outcome is assured and we will from that time onward be moving in a direct line to liberation. This is certainly better than anything else we might be given, for all those things will be ultimately lost–that is the nature of relative existence. But to pass beyond all things is to gain everything in freedom.”

[JosephM]

Nice post Karen,

 

I would agree that we experience or are aware of the stream intermittently, at least in my own experience and hopefully with fewer intermissions as we go along. I guess it possibly may be a one time constant thing with some or few but most of them are not speaking.

 

Joseph

[tariki]

The Enlightened One

 

179. By what path will you lead the Buddha of infinite range of perception, the Pathless One, whose conquest of passions cannot be undone, into whose conquest no one in this world enters?

 

180. By what path will you lead the Buddha of infinite range of perception, the Pathless One, in whom there is not that entangling and poisonous craving which leads one astray (to another state of birth)?

 

181. Those wise ones who are absorbed in meditation, who take delight in the inner calm of renunciation, such mindful and perfectly awakened ones even the devas (gods) hold dear.

 

182. Difficult is it to be born as a human being; difficult is the existence of mortals; difficult is the hearing of the Sublime Truth; rare is the appearance of the Enlightened Ones (Buddhas).

 

183. Abstention from all evil, the doing of good deeds, and the purification of the mind, is the admonition of the Enlightened Ones.

 

184. Forbearance which is long-suffering is the highest austerity. The Buddhas declare nirvana to be the supreme state. Verily he is not an anchorite who harms another; nor is he an ascetic who causes grief to another.

 

185. Not reviling, not injuring, practicing restraint according to the moral code (patimokkha) leading to freedom, moderation in eating, living in solitude, dwelling with diligence on the highest thoughts — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.

 

186, 187. There is no satisfying the passions even by a shower of gold coins; the wise man, knowing that sense delights are of fleeting pleasure and productive of pain, finds no joy even in celestial pleasures. The true disciple of the Fully Enlightened One delights only in the destruction of all worldly desires.

 

188. Men driven by fear betake themselves to numerous refuges, such as mountains, forests, groves, sacred trees and shrines.

 

189. Verily, none of these is a safe refuge, nor is it the supreme refuge. For even after arriving at a refuge, one is not emancipated from all suffering.

 

190. He who takes refuge in the Enlightened One (buddha), in his Doctrine (dhamma), and in his Community of Monks (sangha), perceives with clarity of wisdom the Four Noble Truths, namely:

 

191, 192. Suffering, the Origin of Suffering, the Cessation of Suffering, the Noble Eightfold Path that leads to the cessation of suffering.

 

That, verily, is the safe refuge and the supreme refuge. After having arrived at that refuge, a man is emancipated from all suffering.

 

193. An illumined person (a Buddha) is indeed very rare. He is not born everywhere. Wherever such a one takes birth, that family prospers.

 

194. Blessed is the birth of the Buddhas; blessed is the discourse on the Noble Law; blessed is the harmony of the Community of Monks; blessed is the devotion of those living in brotherhood.

 

195, 196. He who pays homage to those who deserve homage, whether the Enlightened Ones or their disciples; he who has overcome the host of passions, and crossed the stream of grief and lamentations; he who pays homage to such as are emancipated and fearless — his merit cannot be measured.

 

 

 

 

 

(I have had to switch from the on-line version I was using, as the cut and paste seems not to work. I have left the verse numbers in, as can be seen)

Edited November 4, 2011 by tariki

[tariki]

Not reviling, not injuring, practicing restraint according to the moral code leading to freedom, moderation in eating, living in solitude, dwelling with diligence on the highest thoughts — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.

 

Regarding the above verse, and the highlighted words, Cleary says....

 

Solitude means being aloof from the influences of society (be not conformed to this world?) . It may be practiced alone or in company, just as emotional dependency can be practiced alone or in company. One who is physically alone yet still under the influence of other people is not solitary. One who abandons the world in favour of isolation is not solitary either, because the world is still a companion by virtue of ongoing relation, even though that relation be one of rejection.

[JosephM]

Derek,

 

Perhaps you could elaborate on 191 and 192 on what exactly is suffering as defined in Buddhism and how its cessation is arrived at by the eightfold path. That sounds like something pretty important. Even Christianity speaks of such a day in the kingdom but unfortunately many teachings teach that this is for the hereafter only. Personally, i do not share that belief in Christianity.

 

Joseph

[tariki]

According to the Canonical texts, the First Noble Truth - of suffering (Pali -dukkha) - is to be understood. My own understanding is that suffering is not one side of a coin, the other side being joy and happiness, but that suffering is the total context of our lives. In others words, it IS US, ourselves, not merely a part of us. (I suppose, seeking to link this to the Christian Faith, we "sin because we are sinners", we are not sinners because we sin.)

 

So "overcoming it" involves not the elimination of certain things, but a transformation of understanding, of "who we are".

 

My own Pure Land way is one of dual perspective, dual in the sense of seeing clearly our own finitude and failure, yet with such seeing known to be purely by the light of Inifinite Compassion. So the more I see my own "suffering", that it is in fact my total being, the more the light. A Pure Lander has sought to describe such a perspective by speaking of knowing the strength of the light by the depth of his own shadow.

 

In Pure Land Buddhism (Shin) a distinction is drawn between the path of the Sages where one "perfects wisdom and achieves enlightenment", and the path of Pure Land where one "returns to the foolish self to be saved by Amida". Whereas the path of the Sages is more often associated with the monastery, some priviledged space, or the meditation cushion, the "training ground" for Pure Landers is all of life, as lived and experienced each day. Yet the goal is the same, to awaken to the true self as a manifestation of dharma or "reality-as-is". Such a realization comes via the power of compassion. Illuminated by such a light we are made to see our essential finitude, imperfection and mortality - affirming ones basic reality is the crucial factor in the transformative process. Such a transformation is based on the Mahayana teaching of the non-duality of samsara (this world of birth-and-death) and nirvana; i.e. delusion and enlightenment. This is not a simple identity, for it involves a dialectical tension between the two poles, between limited karmic beings and unbounded compassion. As we walk on, hopefully the "tension" eases, the rubble turns to gold! (This all drawn from Unno, one of my favorite Pure Land writers)

 

Just to finish, here are some words written by a carer. It is such honesty in the face of suffering that truly speaks to me. I can identify completely.

 

With righteous fervour I tended to her needs

Day and night, as she lay hostage

To the crippling disease.

Then she asked for a measure more,

And I balked.

She made me see me for what I am.

Namu-Amida-Butsu!

 

(Namu-Amida-Butsu........loosely translated, "my foolish self is embraced by Infinite Compassion, grasped, never to be abandoned" It is the Nembutsu, the heart of the Pure Land way)

[JosephM]

Thanks for the summary Derek,

 

Perhaps in Christianity we might say. "We are transformed by the renewing of our mind". Also "to repent" is to change our thinking. Perhaps the new creature emerging in the Christian religion is a transforming or re-identification of who we are in Christ which relates to your statement "So "overcoming it" involves not the elimination of certain things,but a transformation of understanding, of "who we are".

 

I say re-identification because it seems to me in Christianity, perhaps we have never really lost (or fallen as some might say) from who we really are (doesn't seem possible), we just became unaware of it and it appears as if we have lost our way.

 

You have not explained the eight fold path mentioned but i assume from your summary that it is a path of compassion which leads to the cessation of suffering as might also the path of love in Christianity?

 

Joseph

[tariki]

Well, I think anyone can google the 8 fold path and see the eight things involved.

 

Wisdom (Sanskrit: prajñā, Pāli: paññā)

 

1. Right view

2. Right intention

 

Ethical conduct (Sanskrit: śīla, Pāli: sīla)

 

3. Right speech 4. Right action 5. Right livelihood

 

Concentration (Sanskrit and Pāli: samādhi)

 

6. Right effort 7. Right mindfulness 8. Right concentration

 

 

Myself, I think it can easily be misunderstood if each division is seen as some sort of step onwards and upwards, with the walker constantly thinking about exactly where they may or may not be!

 

The texts say that the path is to be "cultivated", which for me means to make it ones own, and this - for me - is within the "training ground" (dojo) of a simple secular life.

 

P.S. Sorry, my opening line seems rather curt and rude, I only meant that I sought to answer from my own experience and understanding rather than just offering a list.

Edited November 6, 2011 by tariki

[JosephM]

Derek,

 

How does one know what is "right" view, intention, speech, livelihood, effort , concentration, etc. Are there rules such as the commandments in Christianity? Views ,speech , livelihood , etc. seem like subjective issues. How do individuals know what is right view and what is wrong view? Is there a general golden guiding rule where there is agreement in determining such?

 

Hope you don't mind me putting you on the spot a bit. These questions immediately come to my mind when you list the eight-fold path.

 

Joseph

[tariki]

Well, as I said - not rudely or curtly..... - quick googles can reveal the answers.......or perhaps a link....

 

http://www.thebigvie...htfoldpath.html

 

For me, the essential "guidelines" were found very quickly within the Theravada texts...

 

1. Not to indulge in metaphysical speculation....i.e. Where do I come from, do we survive death, etc etc. But to concentrate upon "pulling the arrow of suffering out" rather than speculating how it might gave got there.

 

2. Having regard for the words of the Buddha found in the Kalama Sutta.....Do not be satisfied with hearsay or with tradition or with legendary lore or with what has come down in scriptures or with conjecture or with logical inference or with weighing the evidence or with liking for a view after pondering over it or with someone else's ability or with the thought "The monk is our teacher." When you know in yourselves: "These things are wholesome, blameless, commended by the wise, and being adopted and put into effect they lead to welfare and happiness," then you should practice and abide in them....

 

3. To treat all the teachings as a raft, for crossing over, not for grasping.

 

 

For me, these three have been "companions" on the way. And any true explication of the Eightfold Path will necessarily be "auto-biographical", unique to each individual.

 

As I see it, there are the texts, and we find words worthy of reflection...........for insyance, here is the Buddha speaking of "right speech".....

 

[1] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

 

[2] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

 

[3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.

 

[4] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

 

[5] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

 

[6] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings."

 

So, read them reflect upon them, yet....

 

Me? Often my mouth opens and speaks before all such is considered, and even if I attempt to consider such, how would I know, more often than not?

 

So there is life, and there are texts.

[JosephM]

Thanks Derek,

 

But if we all goggled everything we would have no need for this forum and exchange .

 

Besides i was interested in your personal perspective and experience as relates to the question and not just text. Perhaps you have answered that in your last sentences?

 

Joseph

[tariki]

Thanks Derek,

 

But if we all goggled everything we would have no need for this forum and exchange .

 

Besides i was interested in your personal perspective and experience as relates to the question and not just text. Perhaps you have answered that in your last sentences?

 

Joseph

Well, yes. Really why the thread on Buddhism was one of various "images" rather than a summary of Doctrines. While I have found that a knowledge of the bare bones of Theravada gives me a few pegs on which to hang my own clothes (as it were), there is nothing like a true existential engagement with a faith.

 

Proverbs....He (and I suppose, she.... ) who answers a thing before he heareth it, it is a shame and a folly unto him.

 

 

Its all in the "heareth".

 

[tariki]

Happiness

 

 

197. Let us live happily then, not hating those who hate us! among men who hate us let us dwell free from hatred!

198. Let us live happily then, free from ailments among the ailing! among men who are ailing let us dwell free from ailments!

199. Let us live happily then, free from greed among the greedy! among men who are greedy let us dwell free from greed!

200. Let us live happily then, though we call nothing our own! We shall be like the bright gods, feeding on happiness!

201. Victory breeds hatred, for the conquered is unhappy. He who has given up both victory and defeat, he, the contented, is happy.

202. There is no fire like passion; there is no losing throw like hatred; there is no pain like this body; there is no happiness higher than rest.

203. Hunger is the worst of diseases, the body the greatest of pains; if one knows this truly, that is Nirvana, the highest happiness.

204. Health is the greatest of gifts, contentedness the best riches; trust is the best of relationships, Nirvana the highest happiness.

205. He who has tasted the sweetness of solitude and tranquillity, is free from fear and free from sin, while he tastes the sweetness of drinking in the law.

206. The sight of the elect (Arya) is good, to live with them is always happiness; if a man does not see fools, he will be truly happy.

207. He who walks in the company of fools suffers a long way; company with fools, as with an enemy, is always painful; company with the wise is pleasure, like meeting with kinsfolk.

208. Therefore, one ought to follow the wise, the intelligent, the learned, the much enduring, the dutiful, the elect; one ought to follow a good and wise man, as the moon follows the path of the stars.

[tariki]

Cleary comments that the first three verses underscore the message that inner peace is not won by trying to reject the world, but by living in its midst without being the slave of greed, hatred and folly.

 

Of verse 201, he quotes the Tao Te Ching, "extreme fondness means great expense, and abundant possessions mean much loss. If you know when you have had enough, you will not be disgraced. If you know when to stop, you will not be endangered." Or, as the Bible says......the jaws of hell are never filled!

 

Of verse 203, "contentment is described as a garment that never wears out."

[tariki]

Affection

• Giving himself to things to be shunned
  and not exerting where exertion is needed,
  a seeker after pleasures,
  having given up his true welfare,
  envies those intent upon theirs.
  
• Seek no intimacy with the beloved
  and also not with the unloved,
  for not to see the beloved
  and to see the unloved,
  both are painful.
  
• Therefore hold nothing dear,
  for separation from the dear is painful.
  There are no bonds
  for those who have nothing beloved or unloved.
  
• From endearment springs grief,
  from endearment springs fear.
  From him who is wholly free from endearment
  there is no grief, whence then fear?
  
• From affection springs grief,
  from affection springs fear.
  From him who is wholly free from affection
  there is no grief, whence then fear?
  
• From attachment springs grief,
  from attachment springs fear.
  From him who is wholly free from attachment
  there is no grief, whence then fear?
  
• From lust springs grief,
  from lust springs fear.
  From him who is wholly free from craving
  there is no grief; whence then fear?
  
• From craving springs grief,
  from craving springs fear.
  From him who is wholly free from craving
  there is no grief; whence then fear?
  
• People hold dear him
  who embodies virtue and insight,
  who is principled,
  has realized the truth,
  and who himself does what he ought to be doing.
  
• One who is intent upon the Ineffable (Nibbana),
  dwells with mind inspired (by supramundane wisdom),
  and is no more bound by sense pleasures —
  such a man is called "One Bound Upstream."
  
• When, after a long absence,
  a man safely returns from afar,
  his relatives, friends and well-wishers
  welcome him home on arrival.
  
• As kinsmen welcome a dear one on arrival,
  even so his own good deeds
  will welcome the doer of good
  who has gone from this world to the next.
  

[tariki]

Cleary states that this Chapter "focuses on the simple fact that obsessive pursuit of pleasure causes pain." And a necessary step to inner peace is "understanding the nature and consequences of bondage to compulsive acquisitiveness."

 

such a man is called "One Bound Upstream." Cleary says that to swim against the stream (one bound upstream) means to be immune to the forces of opinion and outmoded habit that ordinarily prevent us from examining our own nature and fate from any new vantage point.

 

There are a few words to be found in "A Study of Chuang Tzu" (Merton) relevant to much of this, where Merton paraphrases Chuang Tzu regarding his understanding of "happiness".....

 

My greatest happiness consists precisely in doing nothing whatever calculated to obtain happiness........Perfect joy is to be without joy.........if you ask "what ought to be done" and "what ought not to be done" on earth to produce happiness, I answer that these questions do not have a fixed and predetermined answer to suit every case. If one is in harmony with the Tao the answer will make itself clear when the time comes to act, for then one will act not according to the human and self-conscious mode of deliberation, but according to the divine and spontaneous mode of wu wei, which is the mode of action of Tao itself, and is therefore the source of all good.

 

And goes on to point out that the alternative, the way of conscious striving, is in essence a way of self-aggrandizement.

[tariki]

ANGER

 

 

Abandon anger, give up pride, and overcome all fetters. Suffering does nor befall him who is without attachment to names and forms, and possesses nothing of his own.

 

When a man governs his rising anger like a chariot going out of control, that is what I call a charioteer. The rest are just holding the reins.

 

Overcome anger with freedom from anger. Overcome evil with good. Overcome meanness with generosity, and overcome a liar with truthfulness.

 

Speak the truth, don't get angry, and always give, even if only a little, when you are asked. By these three principles you can come into the company of the devas.

 

Those sages who do harm to no-one, and who are always physically restrained, go to the everlasting abode, reaching which they will face no more suffering.

 

Inflowing thoughts come to an end in those who are ever alert of mind, training themselves night and day, and ever intent on nirvana.

 

It was so of old, Atula. It is not just so today. They criticise him who sits in silence, they criticise him who talks a lot. They even criticise him who speaks in moderation. There is not a man in the world who is not criticised.

 

There never has been, there never will be, and there is not now any man exclusively criticised or exclusively praised.

 

If a wise man of unblemished behaviour and endowed with wisdom, morality and stillness of mind, is praised by the discriminating after day in day out acquaintance with him, like a pure gold coin, then who is fit to find fault with him? Even the King of the devas praises him.

 

Guard against physical unruliness. Be restrained in body. Abandoning physical wrong doing, lead a life of physical well doing.

 

Guard against mental unruliness. Be restrained in mind. Abandoning mental wrong doing, lead a life of mental well doing.

 

Guard against verbal unruliness. Be restrained in speech. Abandoning verbal wrong doing, lead a life of verbal well doing.

 

The wise who are restrained in body, speech and mind -- such are the well and truly restrained.

Edited January 10, 2012 by tariki

[tariki]

Speaking of "names and forms", Cleary states that they mean ideas and objects in general. He goes on to say......clinging to ideas and objects as real or sacred in themselves, rather than as functional or dysfunctional in their place, is a form of idolatry

 

"Overcome evil with good." Cleary comments that Buddhist non-violence is not limited to passive resistance, but also includes active transmutation.

 

There is also much in this chapter that relates to "peer pressure".......we cannot please everyone! So watch yourself, and seek the truth yourself!

[tariki]

The wise who are restrained in body, speech and mind -- such are the well and truly restrained.

 

 

A little bit of commentary on the last line, drawn from the writings of Ajahn Chah of the Thai Forest Monastic tradition. Ajahn Chah was very strong on the discipline of the Vinaya, the ancient monastic rules laid down for the monks/bhikkhu's in the Theravada Scriptures.

 

Following the Vinaya means we are contained in our speech and action, and accordingly the mind is contained - it is collected. If we are skilled in disciplining speech and action, then the faculty of knowing - mindfulness - is sharp. The mind is as skilled as speech and action, and speech and action are as skilled as the mind. This is religious practice - training of body, speech, and mind.

 

Do everything with a mind that lets go. Don't accept praise or gain or anything else. If you let go a little you will have a little peace; if you let go a lot you will have a lot of peace; if you let go completely you will have complete peace.

 

The Buddha is to be found right in the most simple things in front of you, if you're willing to look. And the essence of this is finding the balance which doesn't hold and which doesn't push away.

 

Speak simply, work simply - simplify everything you do so you will be able to see clearly. If you arrive at wisdom, it will be because you've learned to understand your own body and mind. To know the world means to understand the body/mind processes and vice versa......If you don't know yourself, you don't know the world........if you don't understand the nature of the world, then you do not understand yourself.

[tariki]

Impurity

 

 

235. You are now like a withered leaf; even the messengers of Yama (death) have drawn near you. You stand at the threshold of departure, with no provision for your journey.

236. Make of yourself a light; strive hard, without delay, and be wise; purged of moral impurities and being thus stainless, you will then enter the celestial realm of the Noble Ones.

237. Your life has now come to a close; you have come into the presence of death. There is no halting-place for you on the way, and no provision have you made for your journey.

238. Make of yourself a light; strive hard, without delay, and be wise; purged of moral impurities and being thus stainless, you will not then come again into birth and old age.

239. Little by little, ever and anon, the wise man should remove his moral impurities as a smith blows away the dross of silver.

240. As rust arising from iron straightway corrodes the very iron from which it arose, even so the evil deeds of the transgressor lead him to the state of woe.

241. Non-recitation is the rust of the scriptures; non-exertion is the rust of households; sloth is the rust of beauty; negligence is the rust of a watchman.

242. An unchaste life is the blemish of woman; niggardliness is the taint of a benefactor; impurities are indeed evils in this world and in the next.

243. But there is an impurity greater than all impurities — this is ignorance. Rid yourselves of this greatest impurity, O monks, be you free from all impurities.

244. Life is easy for him who is shameless, impudent as a crow-hero (rascal) and a slanderer, a braggart, arrogant and impure in living.

245. But life is difficult for him who is unassuming, constantly seeking that which is pure, disinterested in worldly things, not boastful, who lives in purity and is endowed with insight.

246, 247. He who destroys life here, who utters untruth, who takes what is not given to him, who goes to the wife of another, who indulges in intoxicating liquors, such a man, while in this world, destroys the root of his being.

248. Know this, O man, evil-natured ones are unrestrained; let not greed and wrongdoing lead you to untold misery for a long time.

249. People give alms according to their faith and inclination. But he who frets about the drink and food given to others does not attain peace of mind by day or by night.

250. He in whom that feeling is totally uprooted and destroyed, that person attains peace of mind by day and by night.

251. There is no fire like passion; there is no stranglehold like hatred; there is no snare like delusion; there is no torrent like craving.

252. The faults of others are easily seen, but one's own faults are perceived with difficulty. One winnows the faults of others like chaff, but conceals his own faults as a fowler covers his body with twigs and leaves.

253. If a man sees only the faults of others, and is ever taking offense, his appetite for sense pleasures increases and he is far from the eradication of his desires.

254. There is no footprint in the sky (akasa); there is no ascetic outwardly. Mankind delights in the illusory world; the Tathagatas (Buddhas) find no delight therein.

255. There is no footprint in the sky; there is no ascetic outwardly; no composite things are eternal; there is no instability in the Buddhas.

[tariki]

Just to mention that Cleary, in his commentray, makes the point that much said here represents that which is offered for contemplative exercises and is NOT "philosophical dogma".

 

Regarding v243, Buddhism considers ignorance - in all its guises - as being the root of all evil, and thus as the supreme impurity.

 

The final verses explain why the way of the dharma is "trackless" and cannot be reduced to fixed dogma and ritual performance. Or as the Catholic monk Thomas Merton has said, creed and dogma and doctrines are not so much definitions of truth, but more parameters set against total error................and furher, echoing the Christian mystic St John of the Cross, eventually we must enter upon the kind of way where you leave all ways and, in some sense, get lost.

 

This all said in many ways by many faiths.

 

[JosephM]

Hi Derek,

 

While i do see in the versus many similarities in things both found in Proverbs and related to the death of the old creature and resurrection of the new in Christ in the NT, the words it uses such as "striving hard" and "the wise man should remove his moral impurities" make it to me to be like some sort of a requirement or battle or striving work with our old nature or ego is to be done. It opens a question to me of ... Does one need to "strive hard" for something as if we need to battle and remove these so called "moral impurities" ? In my experience that only seems to strengthen ego and make it an impossible task. Rather it seems to me to be much easier just to watch the ego mind and allow whatever light one has been given to expose it for what it is which allows for a conscious alternate choice to be taken without strife or trying to remove something as if it were ones enemy.

 

Just my own way of viewing,

Joseph

[tariki]

Well Joseph, in a way you speak to the converted! As I mentioned in the OP to this thread........

 

I would also say that though I still choose to identify as a Buddhist, it is the Pure Land way that most appeals to me, which is the way of faith/grace - the so called "easy way". Theravada (and therefore the Dhammapada) represents the "way of the sages, where one developes wisdom and gains enlightenment". In the Pure Land we "return to the foolish self to be saved by Amida"

 

I've quoted nbfore the words of a Theravada bhikkhu, speaking of the moment of emancipation (or "enlightenment"), that "effort falls away, having reached the end of its scope." It seems to me that the real questions revolve around the actual scope of "effort", and this is where our actual paths - as we experience them in our own trek - diverge.

 

Obviously, there will always be those individuals - and those faiths - that insist that only a certain "trek" leads to "salvation", a way defined by a particular book and mode of interpreting it. Even Buddhism, which is often noted for its openess, has the claim within the Theravada Canon of Scripture, that it represents the "only way", and that true "emancipation/deliverance" can only be found within its own particular walls.

 

Theravada has evolved within various cultures beyond its heartlands, and within such has found multiple expressions, these known as the Mahayana (the great vehicle) of salvation, and these have left the "one way" in favour of such texts as the Lotus Sutra, in the Parable of the Dharma Rain....

 

I bring fullness and satisfaction to the world,

like rain that spreads its moisture everywhere.

Eminent and lowly, superior and inferior,

observers of precepts, violators of precepts,

those fully endowed with proper demeanor,

those not fully endowed,

those of correct views, of erroneous views,

of keen capacity, of dull capacity -

I cause the Dharma rain to rain on all equally,

never lax or neglectful.

When all the various living beings

hear my Law,

they receive it according to their power,

dwelling in their different environments.....

..The Law of the Buddhas

is constantly of a single flavour,

causing the many worlds

to attain full satisfaction everywhere;

by practicing gradually and stage by stage,

all beings can gain the fruits of the way.

 

Such is "apaya" - or "skilful means" - the way in which Reality-as-is "works" untiringly for the salvation of all, in infinite ways. And all this brings to mind the words of the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart, words which take of deeper and deeper significance - at least for me, as I've pondered them and reflected upon them over the years......"They do HIm wrong who take God in just one particular way; they have the way rather than God."

 

So for me the "one way" is Grace. And we strive until we "know it".