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Another Spong Forum Member


kayatl
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I feel like I just went from a small elementary school to a large regional high school. A few of the faces are familiar but most are strange.

 

A little bit about me:

 

I live in Atlanta, Georgia. My primary interests are medicine, religion, and music(specifically Joan Baez), and community building. I have been a nurse for over 30 years in a variety of settings, mostly hospital and agency. I love nursing and would even encourage my daughter(if I had one) to become a nurse. I have always worked in the "soft areas" like newborn nursery and home care instead of the "hard areas" like ICU or management.I am currently unemployed and am considering retirement or perhaps working for myself as an elder care advocate, provider of respite care, and general "errand woman" for MD appointments, grocery shopping, etc.

 

I consider myself a "recovering theist" after reading such religious writers as John Shelby Spong and Marcus Borg. I am greatly entertained by the "trinity of atheists", Dawkins, Kitchens, and Miller. Although my church is my main social outlet, and Christianity my major subject for religious reading, I am branching out into meditation and yoga. the most important musical happening in the last 7 years has been rediscovering Joan Baez. Of course I loved her in the 60's, who didn't. I saw that she was giving a concert in the Variety Playhouse, real near where I live. I found her video of "Stones in the Road" which gave me a hint of the present day Joan, but I wasn't able to find it again. I went to her concert in '03 or '04 and have been a "Joan head" ever since! I live in a cohousing community which is an intentional community based on principles formulated in Denmark in the 70's I am looking forward to participating in this forum.

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Welcome kayati,

 

Yes, I was a sixties fan of Baez. I think it was the long hair that did it. Since, I believe, from memory, she once performed for Thomas Merton at his monastery, at his hermitage. So she remains in my good books........

 

Anyway, all the best

 

tariki

9Derek)

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I feel like I just went from a small elementary school to a large regional high school. A few of the faces are familiar but most are strange.

 

A little bit about me:

 

I live in Atlanta, Georgia. My primary interests are medicine, religion, and music(specifically Joan Baez), and community building. I have been a nurse for over 30 years in a variety of settings, mostly hospital and agency. I love nursing and would even encourage my daughter(if I had one) to become a nurse. I have always worked in the "soft areas" like newborn nursery and home care instead of the "hard areas" like ICU or management.I am currently unemployed and am considering retirement or perhaps working for myself as an elder care advocate, provider of respite care, and general "errand woman" for MD appointments, grocery shopping, etc.

 

I consider myself a "recovering theist" after reading such religious writers as John Shelby Spong and Marcus Borg. I am greatly entertained by the "trinity of atheists", Dawkins, Kitchens, and Miller. Although my church is my main social outlet, and Christianity my major subject for religious reading, I am branching out into meditation and yoga. the most important musical happening in the last 7 years has been rediscovering Joan Baez. Of course I loved her in the 60's, who didn't. I saw that she was giving a concert in the Variety Playhouse, real near where I live. I found her video of "Stones in the Road" which gave me a hint of the present day Joan, but I wasn't able to find it again. I went to her concert in '03 or '04 and have been a "Joan head" ever since! I live in a cohousing community which is an intentional community based on principles formulated in Denmark in the 70's I am looking forward to participating in this forum.

 

Welcome to the group Kayatl, I'm new here too and it seems like a very nice place to be.

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  • 1 month later...

I consider myself a "recovering theist" after reading such religious writers as John Shelby Spong and Marcus Borg. I am greatly entertained by the "trinity of atheists", Dawkins, Kitchens, and Miller. Although my church is my main social outlet, and Christianity my major subject for religious reading, I am branching out into meditation and yoga.

 

This describes where I am at precisely: a recovering theist. I'm so glad to have the company. I was alone with my thoughts for a very long time before I discovered a since-departed religion and spirituality website sponsored by the Atlantic Magazine. Since that forum was brought down by fundamentalist trolls (same thing happened to the New York Times religion forum), there has been a void. I tried Theology Web, but that is dominated by conservative types who are very closed to new ideas.

 

I too have replaced prayer with meditation.

 

I look forward to many good discussions!

 

NORM

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This describes where I am at precisely: a recovering theist.

 

Hey, me, too! :D Right now, I'm a deist. I wanted to be a Christian deist for a while, but the "founder" of Christian Deism said I had to believe that Jesus was a deist, a notion I find to be quite absurd. Spong and Borg, while remaining in the Christian tradition, have helped me greatly in my journey.

 

I too have replaced prayer with meditation.

 

Do you use any sort of resources for meditation, Norm? If so, what works for you?

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<quote>Hey, me, too! biggrin.gif Right now, I'm a deist. I wanted to be a Christian deist for a while, but the "founder" of Christian Deism said I had to believe that Jesus was a deist, a notion I find to be quite absurd. Spong and Borg, while remaining in the Christian tradition, have helped me greatly in my journey.

</quote>

 

Christ could have been a deist if he ever really existed. Thomas Jefferson was a deist and one who thought like Jefferson could be called a Jeffersonian Deist. In that respect a Christian Deist isn't so absurd. What is absurd is that someone is calling them self the founder of Christian Deism and setting up some sort of belief system. The only founder of Christian Deism would be Christ himself the way I reason.

 

Paz

 

Harry

 

 

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Hi, Harry.

 

>>Christ could have been a deist if he ever really existed.

 

Perhaps. But not in the same way that most modern deists define themselves. We can discuss this further if you’d like.

 

>>Thomas Jefferson was a deist and one who thought like Jefferson could be called a Jeffersonian Deist. In that respect a Christian Deist isn't so absurd.

 

True. I could, if I chose, call myself a Christian Deist as I am a deist who believes in following Jesus’ two commandments. But most Christians, based upon percentage, believe that Jesus was/is God and should be worshipped as such, and I don’t believe that to be the case, at least in my understanding and experience.

 

>>What is absurd is that someone is calling them self the founder of Christian Deism and setting up some sort of belief system. The only founder of Christian Deism would be Christ himself the way I reason.

 

I agree with you. And I had to laugh at this gentleman’s assertion because one of the things that deism values highly is the lack of hierarchy or authoritarianism. Payne said, “My church is my own mind.” He wasn’t saying that we don’t need social relationships and interaction, just that we each need to decide for ourselves, based upon reason and experience, what we believe is the truth. We don’t need someone standing over us, acting as if they are the “founder” of our beliefs and, therefore, dictating some sort of belief system to us. So while I was very cordial with him that, IMO, I wasn’t convinced that Jesus was a deist, I had to chuckle at his rebuttal that he was the founder of Christian Deism and could therefore enforce his beliefs upon me. *Sigh* Oh, our propensity to turn our spirituality into a religion.

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"We don't need someone standing over us, acting as if they are the "founder" of our beliefs and, therefore, dictating some sort of belief system to us. So while I was very cordial with him that, IMO, I wasn't convinced that Jesus was a deist, I had to chuckle at his rebuttal that he was the founder of Christian Deism and could therefore enforce his beliefs upon me. *Sigh* Oh, our propensity to turn our spirituality into a religion."

 

As I understand Deists, (I also might classify my thoughts about life force being my term for god as Deism) they are not much into believing, they are more scientifically inclined to seek truth. I've eliminated the term "I believe" from my written and spoken communications because I am not comfortable with believing something that someone told me. I either know it or I don't know it. I'll take reason and understanding over faith and belief every day of the week.

 

As far as knowing things is concerned there are a couple of ways to know things. There are two kinds of truth, logical and empirical.

  • Logical truths are a priori (necessary, certain and universal - anyone would deduce the same results as in 1+1=2 or if A=B and B=C then A=C).
  • Empirical truths are a posteriori (uncertain, dependent on senses which can deceive us).

Seeing is believing but we don't always see what is actually happening as anyone who has ever watched a magician perform an illusion knows is true when he learns the trick.

 

As I said yesterday in another thread: If we knew the truth about reality and the relationships or connections of time, consciousness, matter and energy we would be able to deduce logically the meaning of god and how the concept evolved. We have a long way to go to know that truth but with the exponential explosion of information that has been occurring since the beginning of consciousness the answers may be clear in a relatively short time when compared to the formation of this solar system.

 

Paz

 

Harry

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