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Scholar Argues There's Little Evidence Jesus Died On A Cross


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Soma, Thanks for the Biblical quotes. Do you think that they hold to the truth?

I believe that it's not just that we need to be empty, I think we are empty, until we recieve God's Grace.

 

DavidK , I like what you wrote that we are empty, until we receive God’s Grace. I meant a little different meaning in that the need to be empty is a kind of faith, an attitude and not an action. I would say it is a way to view the world where the will of God is observed occurring in mysterious ways. I feel this attitude, I like to call Christian Mysticism is awakened through a system, but the system no longer dominates. I feel the internal prayer, contemplation and emptiness of the mind will enliven the affiliation, institution or system with the optimism of grace. It is a kind of freedom where the mind doesn’t consume great amounts of mental energy. Every thought consumes mental energy and when they occur one after another they consume most of our energy. If one empties the mind of thoughts or lessens the amount of thoughts then less energy is consumed. This seems to show the mind is content in itself and not wandering from thought to thought-wasting energy and then energy can be used in social service. Therefore, to grow in faith means to empty the mind and grow progressively in the Spirit having faith in God’s guidance.

 

We don’t have to go to the waters in an artesian well, the water come to us. We just have to remove the barriers blocking the water from rising. God’s grace tries to fill the void in our lives. Emptying the mind removes the barriers and creates a void for God’s grace. I feel the interior life with spirit gives us liberation and a higher consciousness away from the thoughts and cravings for things. We live an interior life not attached to the external world except to serve expressing our Lord’s love. For me the holy is within and that is what motivates a moral religious life. It is awe before God in the indwelling Spirit. It is not that the spiritual is superior to the material, but that the material is spiritual so one sees God in mysterious way. One is content to watch the physical play of Our Lord as he acts it out in everyone and everything.

 

Many Christians express an external religious expression with fear as a kind of motivation. I think they are not emptying their minds, but filling it with thoughts to defend a book or an external God with majestic trivia. When they speak, their words have no power because they don’t have the grace or spiritual power to back them up. They seem to think they know all the meanings, but they don’t seem to know the spiritual value of love and compassion. They force their moral compulsion of the whole Bible on everyone without a discriminate mind that can distinguish between what is pertinent and what doesn’t relate.

 

Mark 7:6-8 (New International Version)

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

" 'These people honor me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from me.

7They worship me in vain;

their teachings are but rules taught by men.' 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

 

 

Thanks for the Biblical quotes. Do you think that they hold to the truth?
DavidK

 

DavidK Deep within you is the answer to the truth of the Bible. I can't answer that for you. That is why I feel if we empty the mind, the answer will appear similar to the old eight ball, but more spiritual. Shake it up first!

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Tariki, A thoughtful post- honest questions.

--

 

 

 

David,

 

There were in fact no actual questions in my post, honest or otherwise. Maybe a few rhetorical ones. And I can be clear and precise about this, as I wrote it!

 

I do have questions, often, but I was not seeking to ask them at that particular moment or with those particualr words. Ah! The treacherous sea of language, such a poor means of communicating truth....... :P

 

All the best

 

Derek

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  • 3 weeks later...

"Leviticus 25:45-46: God permits the Israelites to keep slaves for themselves"

In the context surrounding God telling Moses Israel may possess slaves, it was actually a plan of benevolance to the poor (Lev 25:35).

As has been mentioned before, it wasn't unusual for the poor to subject/sell themselves into a slave's service (v 39) to another Jew or even to a stranger or sojourner.

The Jews may hire heathen sojourners and they may also purchase another Jew (v 40,47). A Jew may buy a Jew; or buy another Jew out of slavery from another Jew or a stranger. But the value paid had to be the honest value of the slaves work (v 50). If a Jewish slave became self-sufficient he could buy himself out of slavery. The Jewish slave holder was restricted from selling a slave (Jewish or otherwise) to a heathen. In regard to a slave, if he became sufficient, he could actually purchase a slave for himself, and there was no restriction preventing it from being a Jewish one(v 47).

Considering the times, it was a benevolent system in caring for the poor. Just because man has tendencies to misuse the system, it no way suggests that such misuse was endorsed by God.

 

"Judges 21:10-12: God commands the Israelites to wipe out everyone in their enemy tribes but keep the virgin women for their own pleasure"

A closer inspection shows that God did not give this command. The Israelites took it upon themsleves.

Necessary justice is to be done with compassion. God does not punish with delight, nor should men.

 

"1 Samuel 15:3 God commands Saul to murder all the children of the Amalekites"

Injuries done to God's Israel will certainly be reckoned for sooner or later, especially the opposition given them when they are coming out of Egypt. The longer judgment was delayed many times, the more severe it is when it comes if repentence is not made. The iniquity of Amalek and the Amalekites was full, they aggressively had no intention to repent. God chooses the instrument to do his work that are fittest for it. This was bloody work, and therefore Saul who was a rough and severe man must do it.

 

"I might ask you the same question. What gives meaning to the word morality if you can claim any action you want is moral simply by claiming God is on your side?"

This must have been addressed to me in error. I never asked any such question.

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If the mind, or the 8 ball, were empty- there would be nothing to shake up. :rolleyes:

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Derek,

Oh? Well, I'll withdraw the compliment. By the way, take notice, I didn't try to answer them.

--

Davidk

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Thought this all seems a bit off topic......

 

"Leviticus 25:45-46: God permits the Israelites to keep slaves for themselves"

In the context surrounding God telling Moses Israel may possess slaves, it was actually a plan of benevolance to the poor (Lev 25:35).

As has been mentioned before, it wasn't unusual for the poor to subject/sell themselves into a slave's service (v 39) to another Jew or even to a stranger or sojourner.

The Jews may hire heathen sojourners and they may also purchase another Jew (v 40,47). A Jew may buy a Jew; or buy another Jew out of slavery from another Jew or a stranger. But the value paid had to be the honest value of the slaves work (v 50). If a Jewish slave became self-sufficient he could buy himself out of slavery. The Jewish slave holder was restricted from selling a slave (Jewish or otherwise) to a heathen. In regard to a slave, if he became sufficient, he could actually purchase a slave for himself, and there was no restriction preventing it from being a Jewish one(v 47).

Considering the times, it was a benevolent system in caring for the poor. Just because man has tendencies to misuse the system, it no way suggests that such misuse was endorsed by God.

46And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

 

It clearly says that they were to take them to be bondsmen for ever and for an inheritance for their children.

It doesn't record God saying anything about it being temporary or them being able to buy their own freedom but it does mention forever. God commanded they take of them and that doesn't imply buying. Whether or not there was indeed buying and selling of slaves is a separate issue from this statement referenced.

 

 

"Judges 21:10-12: God commands the Israelites to wipe out everyone in their enemy tribes but keep the virgin women for their own pleasure"

A closer inspection shows that God did not give this command. The Israelites took it upon themsleves.

Necessary justice is to be done with compassion. God does not punish with delight, nor should men.

 

 

"When you go to war against your enemies and you see a beautiful woman and find her desirable, you may take her as your wife. If she ceases to please you send her away." Deut. 21:10-

 

While that particular writing referenced in Judges doesn't clearly show God commanding it, it is clear from the commandments and ordinances in Deut. that as part of the allowed spoils of war a Jew could take a beautiful woman to wed and do as he please to her. There is no mention of her willingness and only that if she ceased to please him he could send her away.

 

To hide ones actions under the premise that it is God's judgement against his enemies (as if God has any enemies
rolleyes.gif
in creation) for sin is no more different than me going out and murdering people because i say or believe God is angry at them and speaking to me to avenge Him. While you may find and quote literal Biblical support to support an Angry and Jealous God who uses others to avenge himself or that somehow this is compassion or that mass destruction is justified by this to me seems characteristic only of the mind of men or a people rather than the mind of God.

 

Just a view from my subjective experience.

Joseph

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In the context surrounding God telling Moses Israel may possess slaves, it was actually a plan of benevolance to the poor (Lev 25:35).

As has been mentioned before, it wasn't unusual for the poor to subject/sell themselves into a slave's service (v 39) to another Jew or even to a stranger or sojourner.

Enslaving the poor is still wicked and immoral for God to endorse. We would consider it wicked and immoral to enslave people today in modern times, so why was it acceptable to enslave the poor in ancient times?

 

If a Jewish slave became self-sufficient he could buy himself out of slavery.
Temporary slavery is still wicked and immoral for a loving god to endorse.

 

 

Considering the times, it was a benevolent system in caring for the poor. Just because man has tendencies to misuse the system, it no way suggests that such misuse was endorsed by God.
It may have been understandable during those times, but it makes no sense for an unchanging God with absolute morality to approve of slavery in ancient times while condemning it in modern times. Your explanation only makes sense if we accept that the bible is a human book and that morals are relative to the culture. But I don't see how it works if the bible is divinely inspired by an unchanging god with absolute morality. If morality is absolute and God is unchanging, then slavery is either moral all the time or it is immoral all the time but you cannot have it both ways.

 

A closer inspection shows that God did not give this command. The Israelites took it upon themsleves.

Necessary justice is to be done with compassion. God does not punish with delight, nor should men.

I fail to see how keeping the virgin women of an enemy tribe to rape is necessary justice or compassionate.

 

Injuries done to God's Israel will certainly be reckoned for sooner or later, especially the opposition given them when they are coming out of Egypt. The longer judgment was delayed many times, the more severe it is when it comes if repentence is not made. The iniquity of Amalek and the Amalekites was full, they aggressively had no intention to repent. God chooses the instrument to do his work that are fittest for it. This was bloody work, and therefore Saul who was a rough and severe man must do it.
How did the babies of Amalek injure God?
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