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The Tao Te Ching


JosephM

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(snip)

I gain a sense that no quantity of words, no methodology, no means of apprehension may exhaust what God is. We may draw our strength and our life and our principles and philosophies from him, and may write many volumes, but nothing has been added to or taken away from him. All systems and principles are incomplete and incapable of defining his intrinsic completeness. God dwells in light (or.. darkness) unapproachable, hid from our eyes.

 

Wonderfully expressed Mike. Very much like your chosen words.

 

Joseph

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There is a variety of translations. I am not sure of the genealogy of each one but there are some translators who include a middle piece that is missing in the translation we are using.

 

In its simplest form the middle section of Chapter 4 reads:

 

It blunts sharpness,

Resolves tangles;

It tempers light,

Subdues turmoil.

 

Stan Rosenthal's translation expands the line "its blunts sharpness" to the following:

 

When tempered beyond its natural state,

the finest blade will lose its edge.

Even the hardest tempered sword,

against water, is of no avail,

and will shatter if struck against a rock.

 

A good metaphor for judgment honed to a fine edge. "Against water..." it is of no use in the spiritual realm. " Against rock..." Some things are whole and unyielding to intellectual dissection.

 

Something I need to keep in mind.

 

Dutch

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This is a great discussion. I hope you don't mind my entering late.

 

Chapter 1

The tao that can be told

is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named

is not the eternal Name.

 

Yahweh translates literally as 'I am whatever I shall be' or 'I am that which I am'. This is not a name. It seems to be the reply that God gave Moses to denote he has no name. It shows similar to the Tao how awesome and mysterious an always transcendent God is. God or the Tao has no name and no form which the human mind can understand. The Almighty, Lord, God the Father are not names they are titles. I see God the Father as unqualified consciousness or pure consciousness without qualities.

 

Chapter 2

When people see some things as beautiful,

other things become ugly.

When people see some things as good,

other things become bad.

 

Being and non-being create each other.

Difficult and easy support each other.

Long and short define each other.

High and low depend on each other.

Before and after follow each other.

 

Therefore the Master

acts without doing anything

and teaches without saying anything.

Things arise and she lets them come;

things disappear and she lets them go.

She has but doesn't possess,

acts but doesn't expect.

When her work is done, she forgets it.

That is why it lasts forever.

 

I see the Word as the offspring of God from which everything is born. It is qualified consciousness where pure consciousness takes on more and more vibrations or qualities. When the first vibration is allowed to impose on the pure consciousness, it gets quality and becomes aware of itself. I would say pure consciousness didn't act because action creates vibrations or qualities so The Father pure consciousness allowed the Holy Spirit to act on pure consciousness and create qualities in it.

 

And God said "Let there be light and there was light." "Let light be made" Allow vibrations in the unqualified consciousness.

 

God is infinite, He cannot be two, we cannot have two infinites, He is the only one, but because the infinite transcends all dualism, it is qualified enough to include dualism so the external world can exist.

 

Limitations or qualities in the world of duality can manifest in two ways, positive or negative, long or short ect. We label things and actions in the world of duality as good or bad, but they are just judgments about different situations in our lives. It seems every person needs to achieve a balance in this world between positive and negative, good and evil, and also between pleasure and pain, then one gets a glimpse of pure consciousness.

 

Newtons's third law of motion. III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Jesus "Whatever you sow you shall reap." Einstein E=Mc^ Energy is conserved.

This seems to show that every action creates a reaction. The master therefore acts without action, Jesus "Lord let thy will be done" Act through me so the master does not get the reaction. The master didn't do it. Pure consciousness flowed through the master because the ego was removed so the ego didn't act or react. Pure consciousness is beyond vibration so the master acts without action.

 

Chapter 3

Practice not-doing,

and everything will fall into place.

 

Pure consciousness is unqualified without vibration. Jesus said, “Whatever you sow you shall reap.” He is saying that our actions are far-reaching that they affect our personal happiness. Our spiritual maturity is directly related to our commitment to behave in a responsible manner. Christ said, "I and the Father are one." He was declaring the truth with all the sincerity of his experience where his mind was no longer bound by the feelings, emotions, thoughts, impulses and instincts of the world because he remained only in the reality of the all pervading consciousness. He was beyond action and reaction.

 

Chapter 4

The Tao is like a well:

used but never used up.

It is like the eternal void:

filled with infinite possibilities.

 

In reality it is impossible to live outside the present and to put God in the past or future because this implies that God is not eternal and present. The proof is in our experience by experiment and not theory. When one concentrates only on what is happening in the present, the moment is pure awareness without any desire or action. To live in the past or for the future invokes memory, anticipation and causes anxiety because these are forms of desires, dreams and fantasies. It is the habit of the ego to live in this unreality, but as we discard and release all ideas contrary to the present, our experience achieves full measure in the here and now; infinite possibilities. This reality is total and whole, not the past or future because we are not looking over our shoulder or standing on our toes to see what’s ahead.

 

As we become detached and unshaken by life's stresses and strains, we grow to identify ourselves with our eternal, knowledgeable, blissful soul, united with pure consciousness, an eternal void instead of with our finite body, ego and mind.

 

I do not know if this makes sense, but I love the abstract and try to make sense of what is beyond the senses.

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Great Post Soma,

 

It is never to late for such things. Thanks for your well written interpretation. We can move on to the next Chapter as soon as you see a gap in responses.

 

Joseph

 

 

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In reality it is impossible to live outside the present and to put God in the past or future because this implies that God is not eternal and present. . . . To live in the past or for the future invokes memory, anticipation and causes anxiety because these are forms of desires, dreams and fantasies. It is the habit of the ego to live in this unreality, but as we discard and release all ideas contrary to the present, our experience achieves full measure in the here and now; infinite possibilities.

 

soma, I appreciated your contribution in the resurrection topic. This time, I find the above statement relevant to my life.

 

If it doesn't sidetrack us too much I have a question.

 

God the Father is pure consciousness, without qualities.

The Word, as the offspring of God, is the source of everything that is born.

God allowed vibrations in the unqualified consciousness. Is this "unqualified consciousness" the Word?

Is the Word pure consciousness in which the Holy Spirit creates qualities/vibrations?

 

Dutch

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God the Father is pure consciousness, without qualities.

The Word, as the offspring of God, is the source of everything that is born.

God allowed vibrations in the unqualified consciousness. Is this "unqualified consciousness" the Word?

Is the Word pure consciousness in which the Holy Spirit creates qualities/vibrations?

 

Dutch

 

Thanks for the question. I feel God is everything because there was nothing before God so I imagine God as a great ocean of pure consciousness to help me understand such an abstract image. The ocean represents everything as an expression of oneness in the pictorial language of nature. Imagine all living things of the universe emerging out of an ocean of pure consciousness, being maintained in this ocean and finally dissolving into it in the end. Imagine this ocean of pure consciousness with some parts frozen. The liquid part represents pure consciousness, which is not manifested materially, it is unqualified without qualities and the icebergs represent pure consciousness as it is manifested in the universe, this is pure consciousness with qualities thus we have creation. The ocean and the icebergs are both made of water so they both contain pure consciousness. We are able to live because this pure consciousness lives within us, we are able to move because a universal energy flows through us, and we are also able to think because there is an infinite consciousness thinking through us. This water or pure consciousness is an infinite ocean, but in it is the finite water or ice; thus, we have the word infinite, (in-the-finite). Now to the question, the word is the first vibration so the beginning of qualities. The water is starting to freeze. It is similar to the HOly Ghost throwing a rock in the water and the vibration expands in concentric circles outward in the cycle of action and reaction.

 

In the beginning of the Gospel of St. John it says,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the light shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not."

The Word is the offspring of God from which everything is born. It is qualified consciousness where pure consciousness takes on more and more vibrations or qualities. Please ask again if I didn't explain well.

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soma,

 

Yes it helped a lot. I am almost there. Just one more question for now. Are we icebergs in a some sense in this metaphor?

 

Dutch

 

That is a great question. I would say yes because we are in creation and duality, but the icebergs are like cups where the cup is filled with liquid water. When the facade melts away, and we realize we are not the body or the mind then a transformation takes place and people are no longer attracted to a sensual material concept of life where they see themselves as a body and a mind alone in the world. They realize that they are a soul connected to God’s creation where the liquid water, (their soul) is connected to all living things is an integral part of a whole. It doesn't matter if we go from the outside in or the inside out, we are all connected in pure consciousness and we are all one in God the Father. I like the phrase "I use to think I was a body with a soul, but now I know I am a soul with a body.

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Chapter 5

The Tao doesn't take sides;

it gives birth to both good and evil.

The Master doesn't take sides;

she welcomes both saints and sinners.

 

The Tao is like a bellows:

it is empty yet infinitely capable.

The more you use it, the more it produces;

the more you talk of it,

the less you understand.

 

Hold on to the center.

 

Some thoughts I had concerning these versus...

 

I am aware that the Bible as exists gives the impression that God takes sides but these first two versus indicate otherwise and fit more in with my experience of life and God. We do reap what we sow but in my experience the production of what we sow whether it be the appearance of what we perceive as good or evil comes from the same potential source or substrate and that substrate is God. Indeed the OT is even quoted as saying in Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. " It is my current understanding that God is the potential by which these things are created but that in a sense God is not a partaker of either. IE: God is Love, therefore in God is no hate. hate is merely the self created absence of love. God is Peace / Stillness , the absence of peace in the created is mental stress / anxiety / conflict

 

In my experience of God, all are loved equally. There are no favorites even though the Bible may indicate in places otherwise. Therefore, in my view, God takes no sides and all created things are loved equally but we as humans do still reap what we sow and from that it gives the appearance that sides or favorites are taken yet in my experience that is not so. It is just the reaping of exactly what we create.

 

The power of God comes from that which is empty or void of form but it is unlimited in potential. The more that that power is used to create, the more it produces. The more that one uses that power to give, the more one receives. To me giving and receiving are one and the same. When water is used in a well, it produces more. The more that it gives out, the more that it produces. God's power is like this.

 

The more you say of God, the more of a concept you make of God. The more concepts you have, the less you really understand because concepts are only pointers and attempts at communicating that which is beyond verbal communications. In talking too much about God, we focus more on the pointer rather than experiencing the presence firsthand.

 

Hold on to the center of your being.

 

Just my take on these versus as relates to my experience to consider. What is your perspective on what they say?

 

Joseph

 

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Joseph, You ideas always challenge me.

The more concepts you have, the less you really understand because concepts are only pointers and attempts at communicating that which is beyond verbal communications.

 

I need to read a variety of translations; I don't hear what is meant without hearing a variety of voices. Other wise I hear only my own.

 

Chapter 5

Anther translation titles this section "Without Intention." This helps me to understand better what is being said.

 

The Tao doesn't take sides;

it gives birth to both good and evil.

 

Yes, in my understanding Jakob Boehme's God and Whitehead's "primordial nature" of God (My understanding of Whitehead is less certain.) what we call good and evil - this dichotomy does not exist in creation - both good and evil come from the becoming that is creation.

 

The Master doesn't take sides;

she welcomes both saints and sinners.

 

I like the above translation, the one that is from our suggested text, because it makes sense when Jesus is substituted for "she" - "Jesus accepts both saints and sinners." However Jesus did ask that sinners go and sin no more. That seems to not be what Lao-tzu is saying.

 

The translation that resonates most with me is the following as a substitution for the above quote:

 

"The wise . . . regard people like sacrificial objects [straw dogs]."

 

When the spontaneity, the holy moment, the rituals of the wise, the Master, are finished, every thing, thought, feeling, experience of the senses which were part of the holy moment are burned, let go of, destroyed, of no use, no existence. The Master is ever empty and, therefore, open to the next moment of spontaneity. The Tao, the Way, is never ceasing in replacing that which is burned, in bringing about holy moments. The Breath of the Spirit becoming creation is without end.

 

At least that's what I can make sense of.

 

I am bothered by the thought that being "without intent" might mean being "amoral and indifferent" from another translation. I am not sure if that is what Lao-tzu meant.

 

What I can relate to is a variation on the meaning of living with detachment. Although the following does not mean the same as the Tao text it seems to be related and it is an understanding that I can relate to and a healthy goal I can move toward. It is from an online article, Life Dancing by Phillip Moffitt on the Life Balance Website:

 

"The result of living in this manner [not judging your life by the outcome of your preferences] is a strong sense of inner peace and spontaneity that allows you to better experience the good things in your life and makes the difficult experiences more bearable and meaningful.

 

To practice non-clinging does not mean forsaking what you value; that would be indifference. Instead, it means practicing non-attachment to outcome. There is a subtle distinction between indifference and non-attachment ... If you are indifferent, you have no value base; you literally don't care how life unfolds. This is cynicism disguised as "cool" or karmic apathy. Non-attachment means that you act from your values but are not fixated on the outcome."

 

http://www.lifebalance.org/articles/2000-07_08_Life_Dancing.shtml

 

Dutch

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Joseph, You ideas always challenge me

 

Hi Dutch,

 

I don't know in fact what Lao-Tzu meant when he wrote those words nor even if he was really the person who wrote them. This mind has been taught concerning spiritual things to assume very little. It merely reads what is written in abstract and when an impasse is reached, surrenders understanding to allow that which is in me but beyond mind to speak to me on whatever level I am able to receive. Reading philosophy or a number of translations is for me, unfruitful as one can be persuaded intellectually by any of them presented in what seems as a logical and analytical presentation. My trust is surrendered to my source and I am persuaded that even if I should stumble and fall in my attempt that that source which sustains me as a creature is well able to make me stand. I am always at the mercy seat of God.

 

To me understanding is not the same as intellectual sense. Understanding goes far deeper than words or concepts. It is a form of oneness with that which is both knower and known without separation or parts. I have just made a concept out of it with words in my last sentence though I recognize that the words are not the same thing. To me, to be challenged is to be lost in thought or thinking. To me the answer/understanding is always beyond the concept of thought.

 

Just something to note or consider,

 

Joseph

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Chapter 5 comes across as quite different in the two translations, to my mind. Mitchell’s note on it seems to extend the meaning further: “Since people are in constant flux, the master understands that any moment they are capable of the most astonishing spiritual transformations. Why pin them motionless with a judgment of good or bad?”

 

Perhaps it resonates with Shakespeare’s line from Hamlet, “there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.”

 

I noticed in a bookstore the other day that Stephen Mitchell recently published The Second Book of the Tao (Feb. 2009), adapted from the work of Lao-tzu’s disciple Chuang-tzu and Confucius’s grandson Tzussu, along with much commentary.

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Chapter 5

The Tao doesn't take sides;

it gives birth to both good and evil.

The Master doesn't take sides;

she welcomes both saints and sinners.

 

To continue with the analogy the temperature that creates the conditions to make the ice is nothing but the Holy Ghost as I see it. It is the power that works and clashes in nature for the development of understanding. The Holy Ghost, which is constantly moving and spreading, is a part of God. It is sometimes looked on as a symbol for further development and is also seen at times in a negative way or as the wings of the devil. It has a dual aspect as said earlier in the Tao and the possibility of being seen either as good or bad. The dual aspect cannot be separated because it is like a paper with two sides that are one and the same. Good cannot exist without evil because they complement each other. Liberation and repression, sickness and health, poverty and wealth, heaven and hell, good and bad, happiness and misery, peace and panic appear to be opposites, but they are only the result of opposing forces, the forces that lead us to the one power or God. I feel these forces teach us how to live and how to think so we can be happy in unity.

 

I feel God the Father is like the light in a room, we can be reading spiritual books or forging checks, the light doesn't care because it only witnesses the actions. Our soul is the life of our spirit within us (the liquid part in the ice cup), and it gives us life good or bad because without our soul we could neither read the Bible nor forge checks. It is our inner companion on a journey through the different layers of the mind going through the different experiences that are momentary and imaginary. It is our center the Tao says to hold onto and our connection to the ocean of Pure Consciousness. It seems that communion with the Father is experienced when one goes to the inner church of our soul because extroversion only distracts and makes one insecure in duality and action-reaction. The meaningless external chitchat only keeps one in the mind and separates us from rejoicing in the inner communion with all so one needs to hold onto the center like the Tao says.

 

The Tao is like a bellows:

it is empty yet infinitely capable.

The more you use it, the more it produces;

the more you talk of it,

the less you understand.

 

There seems to be a law in the universe where if a vacuum is created another force seeks to fill that void so a person who gives receives. The forces seem to act endlessly until there is no action and reaction. A Sufi saying is that God shows himself to seekers, but not to the one who seeks. I think many people go to church, read the bible and hear the word of God. They are seeking God and acting,but they do not feel Him/Her. They should not despair, but be patient and persistent in their practice because in their seeking their consciousness will open and they will feel spiritually with what they now only understand with their minds. In a moment of non-action it seems we come to the understanding that we are not human doers, but human beings. It seems the only way to possess God is to be possessed by Him, let it be, just be, being because He/She is too big for our minds to grasp. We pick a flower and it dies, grab a flame with your fingers and it burns out so it seems we must let God through pure consciousness take hold of us, not the other way around. To me the soul is the medium where God takes hold of us because it is neutral, a creative medium that knows neither good nor bad, it is only a witness. It does not reject anything because it receives all ideas given to it. It is subjective and does not analyze, segregate or deny, but only accepts. It seems the soul is the medium through which pure consciousness acts and is the universal medium where other subjective minds and my subjective mind are united because the soul is where pure consciousness, God, the collective unconscious reacts with me.

 

Hold on to the center.

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Soma,

 

I appreciate your words.

 

 

I feel God the Father is like the light in a room, we can be reading spiritual books or forging checks, the light doesn't care because

it only witnesses the actions ... To me the soul is the medium where God takes hold of us because it is neutral, a creative medium that knows neither good nor bad, it is only a witness.

 

An interesting metaphor I will be thinking about. Are we ever aware that there is "a witness?"

 

Dutch

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Joseph,

 

I thought of you when I read the following:

 

"The terse and mystical language of many of the verses serves as a marker, a hint suggesting a much larger meaning--and this meaning cannot be understood through the words of the text alone, but through one's own contemplation, spiritual practice, and by opening one's heart to the "doorway of all mysteries."

from commentary on Tao Te Ching by Jonathan Star

 

Dutch

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I have to share this rich expansive translation of Chapter 6 by Jonathan Star. I promise I won't do this often, but this takes my breath away.

 

Endlessly creating

Endlessly pulsating

The Spirit of the Valley never dies

She is called the Hidden Creator

 

Although She becomes the whole universe her immaculate purity is never lost

Although She assumes countless forms her true identity remains intact

Whatever we see or don't see

Whatever exists or doesn't exist

Is nothing but the creation of this Supreme Power

 

Tao is limitless, unborn, eternal--It can only be reached though the Hidden Creator

She is the very face of the Absolute

The gate to the source of all things eternal

 

Listen to her voice; hear it echo through creation

Without fail, She reveals her presence

Without fail, She brings us to our own perfection

 

Dutch

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Krishanumurti says: "Remain conscious of your thought process."

 

Difficult, but the few moments we do we witness I think we witness the Tao, and the creator, I guess that is why they call it spiritual practice.

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FYI

 

Now that you have read the "poem" - some words.

 

Jonathan Star acknowledges that he went beyond the original text in exploring the idea of Mother Creator. He used readings from other Oriental traditions to add to the image of the Great Mother that is the Tao.

 

 

Dutch

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Chapter 6

 

The Tao is called the Great Mother:

empty yet inexhaustible,

 

 

Great Mother ~ Sophia, Holy Spirit, Birthing, Creating all. "Empty but inexhaustible" suggests not a one time creative act but an on-going process - becoming.

it gives birth to infinite worlds.

 

All that is created reflects, points toward, to the Great Mother/Tao. The immanent as creation is the beginning for our understanding of the transcendent.

 

It is always present within you.

You can use it any way you want.

 

Intriguing

assuming that "it" is the Great Mother birthing, what would I give birth to? This creating, becoming energy I have in me is inexhaustible so I am always birthing, becoming, not one time, not one call, not one occupation but always through every gate including the gate that opens to the transcendent where "I am Dutch" has no meaning.

 

That's what I saw today.

 

Dutch

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Chapter 6

 

The Tao is called the Great Mother:

empty yet inexhaustible,

 

 

Great Mother ~ Sophia, Holy Spirit, Birthing, Creating all. "Empty but inexhaustible" suggests not a one time creative act but an on-going process - becoming.

it gives birth to infinite worlds.

 

All that is created reflects, points toward, to the Great Mother/Tao. The immanent as creation is the beginning for our understanding of the transcendent.

 

It is always present within you.

You can use it any way you want.

 

Dutch

 

Dutch thanks, we are created in the Tao, God or pure consciousness and are sustained at every moment by the Tao. In the Tao, pure consciousness God is always present in the depths of our souls so our created life depends entirely upon the uncreated life of the Tao, God or the consciousness present within our minds. By immersing our minds in the Tao we begin to live and see pure consciousness within our souls as the uncreated image of God.

 

I like the line that says that the act of creation is a continuous process where new things are being created continuously all the time. The weaving together of all things and their undoing in the universe cannot happen without a method. This method I would say is the natural law observed by the scientists. It preserves order in the centrifugal and centripetal movements of creation and implies movement and the mutability of all the visible structures in nature. In nature there exist recurring patterns of clash and cohesion from the atom to the galaxies and beyond. There also exist a harmony and a similarity of structure between these levels of materiality. It is an inspiration to see the separating and combining of the elements to bring forth nature, such is the order of natural law in the cosmos where all things move together in one common flow called the Tao.

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