The Grail

[Realspiritik]

QUOTE(minsocal @ May 20 2008, 12:14 AM)

Are you certain?

 

yes

 

Hey, Minsocal, don't worry about it. Davidk is always certain. He is always certain that he is right, despite the fact that he frequently contradicts himself. If one reviews his posts as a body of work, there are many irreconcilable discrepancies in what he says one day compared to what he says another day. On this thread alone, you can see how his position changes like the wind as he struggles to "prove" he is correct while many of the rest of us are wrong. I'm not sure Davidk even realizes he is doing this. But it's impossible to have a meaningful relationship with him. His need to be right takes precedence over all other motives he may legitimately have.

 

Sometimes he seems to want to be part of a community, but then he turns around and says nasty things such as his post-script in #17: "Good to see your caustic little self back, OA. I've missed you. You must have missed me too, dedicating an entire post to me! Love, david." He can't seem to stop himself.

 

Even when he is flat-out, 100% off-base with his facts, he will not back down from being "right." Instead, it is "our" fault because "we made him do it" by so incensing him with our "error" that he had "just had to" respond before checking his facts.

 

He is really starting to remind me of Paul in the Letter to the Romans. Blame it in the Law; blame it on Sin; blame it on Satan; blame it on blasphemers -- but for God's sake don't blame it on your own immaturity.

 

Jen

[davidk]

Then that is a "closed" system of beliefs.

That was disposed of earlier, with your agreement.

[davidk]

Okay. First of all. You do realize that we openly call ourselves Progressive Christians. Just as you openly call yourself a conservative Christian. So...duh that we are trying to take Christianity into the modern world, while you feel it has always been sufficient just the way it is. I mean...seriously...it isn't like this is breaking news or anything.

I commend anyone in their noble journey toward truth, particularly when carrying Chistianity into the 21st century. That's Christianities goal, continuously revealing the truth about Jesus Christ, seriously.

--

Secondly, I think most of us would argue that the Bible (as well as other early Church writings, and writings throughout the ages) also represents beliefs "shaped by the surrounding society's finite views and values." The culture of the time did influence what was written in the Bible - to deny that is, in my opinion, to deny reason and rationality, which you seem to be fond of. Furthermore, Christianity has changed over the centuries as society has changed. (Sorry, but I don't really think what Jesus had in mind was what the Catholic Church became - a huge megapower dominating an entire continent; nor could the Popes of old have anticipated the Protestant revolution. And how about the huge scope of churches today? Quakers, Catholics, Pentacostals, Mormons - all quite different...so which one, may I ask, truly preserves the true "Christianity"? This is a quick and simple question to answer. Please inform me.)

I noticed L/P Theology was not among the choices of being true.

-

When it is said: "Christianity has changed over the centuries as society has changed", we understand what was said, that is: the "cultural package" has changed Christianity.

 

When it is said: "The culture of the time did influence what was written in the Bible", we understand what was said, that is: Fickle culture wrote the Bible. A reasonable assumption of what was said.

 

However, if it were said: "The culture of the time did influence how the what was written in the Bible", we understand what was said, that is: the propositional statements from God to man, found in the Bible, were by way of the language and culture to whom it was introduced. That would also be reasonable.

 

Our decision about which is correct predisposes whether our world view is closed, as in L/P Theology, or open.

--

The authenicity of the Bible does not preclude man from attempting to displace the autonomous God with autonomous man and just enough religious language to sound authentic; generating some serious issues and misinterpretations. The past provides enough evidence.

 

This is where I differ with the L/P philosophy, which replaces God's propositional statements with inner self-experiences or crystal balls as the source for answers, denying His revelation, creating uncertainty, claiming irrationality as rational, and been unable or have refused to reveal any reliable sources; which have all been admitted to.

--

Progressives want to find the truth at the core of Christianity as much as you. It's not like we're on some diabolical mission to destroy Christianity. I'd appreciate if you'd stop implying that we're simply trying to get a Christianity that will "sell" today, like we're trying to market some watered-down version that people could believe today. That is NOT what we are trying to do, at least not the people here, who I believe are honest seekers. What we are trying to do is get to that core of Christianity, the truths at the heart of it that transcend culture/society; and we are also trying to understand it in light of today's scientific knowledge, which because of RATIONALITY (oh my goodness it's that word again) we cannot just reject! I.e. we can't see Jesus in comparison to Adam (except metaphorically) because Adam never existed, or at least, he was not the first man, and he did not eat a magical apple that condemned humanity to suffering.

 

Our mission is no different from yours. We are seeking truth. Please stop repeating that "L/Ps" or whatever you're calling us are doing otherwise. It's really getting tiresome.

We hunger for the truth. We will not be inexhaustably certain about everything. But we can reasonably be certain of the absolute truths. Christianity knows God to be the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. In our pride we struggle to modernize God's dependable, reliable, trustworthy, complete and sufficient message for the world. He is Holy. We are not the eternal autonomous One. It is highly presumptuous for us to believe we can fix His image by changing His message so it will be more palatable for 'modern' man. Because He is the Creator He is greater than our culture/society. It is because of the belief in Him modern science was born. There is no magic apple, let's not water down the Bible.

-

I'm not 'implying' the sale of anything, I'm telling you: some are selling and some are buying. Whether they are knowingly selling a lie, it is not for me to decide. caveat emptor.

-

The core of Christianity is "where I am invited to ask my sufficient questions in regard to the existence, order and complexity of the universe but also in regard to the existence of man and then believe God and bow before Him metaphysically in knowing that I exist because He made man, and bow before Him morally as needing His provision for me in the substitutionary, propitiatory death of Christ."

--

"We will continue to delete posts in all areas of the boards - including this one - that we do not feel are presented in a manner that is respectful of other viewpoints, or seeks to convert, or coerce, or attack." <- I do not believe you are respecting our viewpoint (since you do not seem to have allowed yourself to learn anything from anyone here - in which case I must again ask what you are doing here...perhaps you think you will change our minds...but then that would be seeking to convert us, wouldn't it?).

-

I think much has been misunderstood due to some overly sensitive egos (at times, even mine).

Any discussions I may have with anyone I've tried to keep philosophical and not personal. I have made the attempt to strictly apply the 'L/P' to theology or philosophy and not to any person or persons.

[minsocal]

Hey, Minsocal, don't worry about it. Davidk is always certain. He is always certain that he is right, despite the fact that he frequently contradicts himself. If one reviews his posts as a body of work, there are many irreconcilable discrepancies in what he says one day compared to what he says another day. On this thread alone, you can see how his position changes like the wind as he struggles to "prove" he is correct while many of the rest of us are wrong. I'm not sure Davidk even realizes he is doing this. But it's impossible to have a meaningful relationship with him. His need to be right takes precedence over all other motives he may legitimately have.

 

Sometimes he seems to want to be part of a community, but then he turns around and says nasty things such as his post-script in #17: "Good to see your caustic little self back, OA. I've missed you. You must have missed me too, dedicating an entire post to me! Love, david." He can't seem to stop himself.

 

Even when he is flat-out, 100% off-base with his facts, he will not back down from being "right." Instead, it is "our" fault because "we made him do it" by so incensing him with our "error" that he had "just had to" respond before checking his facts.

 

He is really starting to remind me of Paul in the Letter to the Romans. Blame it in the Law; blame it on Sin; blame it on Satan; blame it on blasphemers -- but for God's sake don't blame it on your own immaturity.

 

Jen

 

Again we agree. The "are you certain" is part of davidk's signature response from another thread. It was a reminder to him. And yes, he frequently condradicts himself.

[MOW]

Watch out guys. He's making you change the original subject of this thread .

 

 

MOW

[minsocal]

Watch out guys. He's making you change the original subject of this thread .

MOW

 

Yes, the usual tactic. Really irritating after a while. I was enjoying the dialogue with Jen (the topic starter) until .... It would be great to get the topic back "on issue".

[minsocal]

As I mentioned briefly in a prior post, the issues that Jen has raised transcend territorial battles over who is "right" or "wrong". There are ethical considerations involved that far outweigh the choice of a preferred theory. We want what is is best for our children as they develop into mature adults. We want healthy communities in which all can thrive. We want a spiritual life that is not overly constricted by "rules" that suit or favor only a few.

 

The "middle ground" position suggested by grampawombat is the position many would like to achieve at some point in their lifetime. Development is a lifetime process. The "hierarcy of heart" can give way to "oneness of heart", and so-on. Another way of saying this is that one can be "open to the new" at any age, and there is no necessary point at which a personal system "closes". New ideas are constantly being added to our body of knowledge. Jen has stated that, after some 2000 years, we may finally getting the message of Jesus. I believe this is true. Throughout the history of Christianity, their has been too much emphasis on dogma (a form of hierarchical cultural rules).

 

Why is this an ethical issue? The reason is simple. Jen has done a lot of research. Research exists to find out how things work in the real world, and often contradicts theory developed on speculation. A closed system based on speculation and prior knowledge will not accept the fact that there are individuals in this generation as capable of generating new ideas as any prior generation. And, the next generation will produce more new thinkers, more new perspectives. A closed system automatically rejects or devalues the new (treats the new as heresy). Research, as well as new concepts developing in theology, are not intended to destroy the old, as some might believe. Middle ground thinkers are capable of preserving the old while the new takes hold. Such a position takes more work and more knowledge than the "either-or" of false dichotomies.

[JosephM]

(snip)

Research exists to find out how things work in the real world, and often contradicts theory developed on speculation. A closed system based on speculation and prior knowledge will not accept the fact that there are individuals in this generation as capable of generating new ideas as any prior generation. And, the next generation will produce more new thinkers, more new perspectives. A closed system automatically rejects or devalues the new (treats the new as heresy). Research, as well as new concepts developing in theology, are not intended to destroy the old, as some might believe. Middle ground thinkers are capable of preserving the old while the new takes hold. Such a position takes more work and more knowledge than the "either-or" of false dichotomies.

 

It seems to me this (this quoted paragraph) is perhaps a most excellent observation.

 

Love in Christ,

Joseph

[Realspiritik]

It seems to me this (this quoted paragraph) is perhaps a most excellent observation.

 

Love in Christ,

Joseph

 

I second that! Thank you, Minsocal.

Jen

[Realspiritik]

Minsocal, have you been following the recent research about neuroplasticity? My son gave me Norman Doidge's new book The Brain That Changes Itself, and it's a wonderfully accessible read for anyone who wants to understand more about the inconnection between cell growth in the brain and healing in a person as a whole.

 

One of the great tragedies of modern medicine was the dogma that arose about a hundred years ago with regard to the growth of new brain cells in adults. Until 1998, researchers operated on the assumption that the adult brain couldn't grow new neurons. This theory was based on research that had been carried on severely stressed rats. (At least, I think it was rats . . .) The rats seemed unable to grow new neurons when exposed to learning situations. The observation was correct. But the interpretation of the observation was completely wrong. Turns out the rats couldn't generate new neurons because of high, sustained levels of stress hormones. The stress hormones interfered with the rats' ability to process new learning situations (i.e. build new brain cells and new connections between existing cells). In other words, the traditional scientific belief that old dogs can't learn new tricks is wrong. Old dogs can learn new tricks. (Now that I've turned 50, I suppose I'm one of those old dogs. Woof.)

 

I keep a file called "Oops -- we made a mistake." It's filled with articles about scientific researchers who have overturned scientific dogma by asking brave new questions. I wish I could say I have as many articles from theological innovators as I have from scientific innovators.

 

Alas, I must make do with interesting articles from Biblical Archaeology Review.

 

Jen

[Realspiritik]

Watch out guys. He's making you change the original subject of this thread .

MOW

 

Yeah, that's for sure. I've already had a complaint from Jesus that he started this thread, and hasn't been able to get a word in edgewise. Jen

[minsocal]

Minsocal, have you been following the recent research about neuroplasticity? My son gave me Norman Doidge's new book The Brain That Changes Itself, and it's a wonderfully accessible read for anyone who wants to understand more about the inconnection between cell growth in the brain and healing in a person as a whole.

 

One of the great tragedies of modern medicine was the dogma that arose about a hundred years ago with regard to the growth of new brain cells in adults. Until 1998, researchers operated on the assumption that the adult brain couldn't grow new neurons. This theory was based on research that had been carried on severely stressed rats. (At least, I think it was rats . . .) The rats seemed unable to grow new neurons when exposed to learning situations. The observation was correct. But the interpretation of the observation was completely wrong. Turns out the rats couldn't generate new neurons because of high, sustained levels of stress hormones. The stress hormones interfered with the rats' ability to process new learning situations (i.e. build new brain cells and new connections between existing cells). In other words, the traditional scientific belief that old dogs can't learn new tricks is wrong. Old dogs can learn new tricks. (Now that I've turned 50, I suppose I'm one of those old dogs. Woof.)

 

I keep a file called "Oops -- we made a mistake." It's filled with articles about scientific researchers who have overturned scientific dogma by asking brave new questions. I wish I could say I have as many articles from theological innovators as I have from scientific innovators.

 

Alas, I must make do with interesting articles from Biblical Archaeology Review.

 

Jen

 

Yes, Jen. This is the research I have been following. Stress hormones (CRF in particular) are deadly to certain neurons in the area of the brain that mediates learning (the hippocampus in particular). In severe cases, the neurons are actually destroyed. It was thought that the damage was permanent, but new research indicates that the neurons can regrow after the stressors are removed. The research in rats has been duplicated in humans by observing the size of the human hippocampus over time during extended periods of stress using MRI technology.

 

Also, in April, 2007, researchers from the University of California - Irvine observed the growth of neuronal synapses during learning for the first time (also in the hippocampus).

 

The interesting thing about neurplasticty is that it is quite limited in the oldest parts of the brain, moderate at the level of the midbrain (the emotional - intuitional center), and most extensive in the higher level cortices (the seat of rational processes).

[Realspiritik]

Yes, Jen. This is the research I have been following. Stress hormones (CRF in particular) are deadly to certain neurons in the area of the brain that mediates learning (the hippocampus in particular). In severe cases, the neurons are actually destroyed. It was thought that the damage was permanent, but new research indicates that the neurons can regrow after the stressors are removed. The research in rats has been duplicated in humans by observing the size of the human hippocampus over time during extended periods of stress using MRI technology.

 

Also, in April, 2007, researchers from the University of California - Irvine observed the growth of neuronal synapses during learning for the first time (also in the hippocampus).

 

The interesting thing about neurplasticty is that it is quite limited in the oldest parts of the brain, moderate at the level of the midbrain (the emotional - intuitional center), and most extensive in the higher level cortices (the seat of rational processes).

 

Exciting stuff. I've been following this research avidly. I'm particularly interested in the role of various glial cells in overall brain health and functioning. There's little doubt (at least in my mind) that the role of these cells has been seriously underestimated, as has the dynamic interplay between cerebellum and cerebrum.

 

The great news for Progressive Christians is that we can fearlessly include this new information in our faith practices, consciously tackling the ever-present question of stress and how to deal with it safely and effectively. Ethical spiritual practices for the contemporary church must always help us reduce our levels of stress hormones, not add to them. Ethical spiritual practices -- that don't damage the brain, either intentionally or unintentionally -- are a big part of loving our neighbour.

 

I'm going to hand over the keyboard, as it were, to Jesus. He's itching to say something.

 

Jen

[Realspiritik]

Jesus here.

 

Okay. What does the essay at the beginning of this thread have in common with my original teachings?

 

Everything.

 

I ask you to begin by reviewing Luke 10:23-37. (I perfer the NRSV translation, despite its occasional omission of key words in the Greek). This passage begins with a lawyer who asks me how he can inherit eternal life. In the original context of this conversation, life did not mean "existence"; it meant completion, happiness, joy -- what today's humanist psychologists would call self-actualization, and what mystics would call trust in God.

 

The answer to his question comes from two of the best insights ever written. First is, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind." This simple creed is the Shema. It comes from Deuteronomy 6:5. I didn't write this. It was part of the Jewish tradition -- one of the best parts. Second is, "And [you shall love] your neighbour as yourself." This comes from Leviticus 19:18. I didn't write it either. But I recognized its importance, and I emphasized it again and again.

 

After this introduction, the lawyer asks for further elaboration on the question of neighbours. "Who is my neighbour?" the lawyer asks. Then begins the Parable of the Good Samaritan, which I did write. I wrote it down along with the rest of my "last sermon," and this parable, along with its introduction, eventually made its way into the Gospel of Luke. If you are knowledgeable about the structure of parables and allegories in the original Greek, you will know that the Parable of the Good Samaritan is not about the Good Samaritan per se. It is about the idiot in the ditch. It is written from the point of view of "a certain man," and at the time I wrote it, it would have been obvious to readers that they were to imagine themselves in the place of "a certain man" who fell into the hands of robbers. Readers were to imagine themselves as the Jewish man who is forced to accept that the greatly-despised Samaritan is a much nicer person, in fact, than the elite priests and Levites who talk about righteousness but have no love in their hearts.

 

I was the idiot in the ditch. I was the man who ended up quite literally on the side of road, battered, sexually assaulted, utterly humiliated, flat broke, frightened out of my mind, and terrified of returning to my family (my family were not the abusers, but I had already cut my ties with them for other reasons, and I was too ashamed to ask them for help). I was the man who started out with "everything" (honour, education, wealth), and ended up with nothing. At that point, a complete stranger took me in. Another complete stranger -- a freed slave -- treated me with deep compassion, and rebuked me for the anger I held against my attackers. This freed slave had found the miraculous power of forgiveness, and he began to tell me what it felt like. I was mystified at first. I had been fantasizing about a grand revenge in the tradition of Greek heroic tales. My great friend Tychicus helped me grieve. He knew what it felt like to be abused and battered, both physically and emotionally. He had empathy. He had a treasure the like of which I had never before known. He taught me how to find that treasure.

 

Empathy, as it turns out, can only be experienced when a person achieves a balance between heart, soul, strength (body), and mind. Many people have no empathy for others. This is because they do not choose to live a life that balances heart, soul, strength, and mind. Another way to express this is to say that they do not choose to live a life that balances Oneness of Heart with Differentness of Mind, Differentness of Body, and Differentness of Talent. They choose instead a non-life of non-empathy.

 

You cannot know God if you do not honour these different but complementary aspects of yourself. You cannot know God if you use only your mind. You cannot know God if you use only your strength. You must integrate all aspects of yourself in a balanced way.

 

You think of your human brain as a single, homogeneous organ. Nothing could be further from the truth. (Just open up a neuroanatomy book and start looking at the pictures -- your brain has multiple centres with widely differing cell structures and widely differing functions. It's many different organs working together, hopefully in a cohesive, balanced way to help you achieve true life.) Your brain is the integration centre for the different but complementary aspects of who you are. Your brain is not about "thinking." Your brain is not your "mind." Your brain, when it is operating in a balanced way, according to God's plan, includes your thinking, and includes your mind, but also includes your soul-based emotions such as trust and forgiveness, and your body's wise, insistent input.

 

Meanwhile, Christians of the orthodox ilk, who look to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed as the framework for their faith (this is more commonly called the Nicene Creed today, though strictly speaking the Nicene Creed is a somewhat earlier, shorter version) are called upon by the church to profess a creed that speaks only to the mind. Read it carefully. There is no talk of love. No talk of heart. No talk of praxis (i.e. engaging your body and your strength in faith-directed action). There is only belief. It speaks only to the mind (and not very clearly at that). It does not speak to the other, equally important aspects of your nature. This Creed is out of balance. This Creed does not embrace and build on the Shema. This Creed does not reflect what I, as Jesus, taught.

 

I love you all very much.

Jesus

May 23, 2008

[minsocal]

Exciting stuff. I've been following this research avidly. I'm particularly interested in the role of various glial cells in overall brain health and functioning. There's little doubt (at least in my mind) that the role of these cells has been seriously underestimated, as has the dynamic interplay between cerebellum and cerebrum.

 

Jen

 

Jen,

 

You're right about the role of glial cells. Here's a link listing the possible roles they play:

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-.../mg14119114.000

 

minsocal

[Realspiritik]

Good morning, friends. Jesus here.

 

Today I present a chart that compares the values embraced by all of God's angels to the values of human beings. This chart contains very specific examples of angelic values.

 

This is the legend for the chart:

@ = 100% realization and practise of the stated value

&+ = partial realization of the stated value, but more mentorship is needed so the person can fully understand the meaning

/? = person has begun to lose the understanding of the stated value, and will have to work hard to reclaim the meaning

#$% = person has completely subverted the stated value, and is intentionally warping the meaning to serve selfish interests

* = not applicable for young children

^^^ = value is not understood or practised

 

...................................................................Angel/Soul_______2-Year-Old Child_______Mature Human Adult______Dysfunctional Human Adult

 

1. understands boundary issues___________ @_______________ &+ ________________ @ _________________ #$%

2. understands own personal limits ________ @ ______________ &+ _________________ @ ________________ #$%

3. understands others' personal limits______ @ ______________ * ___________________ @ _________________ #$%

4. full range of emotional affect ___________ @ ______________ @ _________________ @ _________________ ^^^

5. courage to love______________________ @ ______________ @ _________________ @ _________________ ^^^

6. courage to forgive____________________ @ ______________ @ _________________ /? __________________ ^^^

7. does not bully_______________________ @ ______________ &+ _________________ @ _________________ #$%

8. does not hold grudges_________________ @ _____________ &+ _________________ /? __________________ ^^^

9. not afraid to use Tough Love____________ @ _____________ * ___________________ @ _________________ #$%

10. turns lemons into lemonade____________ @ _____________ &+ _________________ @ _________________ #$%

11. insight/wisdom______________________ @ ______________ * __________________ &+ _________________ #$%

12. can laugh at own self _________________ @ ______________ @ _________________ @ __________________ ^^^

13. cherishes friends for their unique qualities__ @ ____________ &+ _________________ @ _________________ #$%

14. cherishes one romantic soulmate

(monogamy)___________________________ @ ______________ * __________________ @ ________________ ^^^

15. loves puzzles, games, & sports but

doesn't care who wins___________________ @ ______________ @ __________________ @ ________________ ^^^

16. team player_________________________ @ ______________ &+ _________________ @ _________________ #$%

17. cannot abide cultural myths of

racial superiority________________________ @ _______________ &+ _________________ @ ________________ #$%

18. cannot abide cultural myths of

gender superiority ______________________ @ _______________ &+ ________________ @ _________________ #$%

19. cannot abide cultural myths of

religious "chosenness"____________________ @ _______________ * _________________ @ _________________ #$%

20. exquisite sense of timing _______________ @ _______________ * _________________ &+ ________________ ^^^

 

 

Your God and your guardian angel know that you are fully capable of being a mature human adult (column 3). If you push yourself even harder over time, you can find yourself living with all the values of column 1 -- that is, you can overcome your fear of forgiving and your reluctance to let go of grudges, and you can also maximize your potential for insight/wisdom and your divine sense of timing. Column 1 can be said to represent the balanced values of living in the Christ Zone.

 

It takes a lot of time, a lot of assistance from others, and a lot of self-forgiveness to make the gradual transition from living in column 4 to living in column 3 or 1. It takes effort, commitment, and compassion from those around you for you to make this transition. But I assure you, based on my own personal experience as a spoiled young man who grew up and found his own heart, that it can be done. Please ask God to help you. God would love to help you become your true, angelic self.

 

Thank you.

Love Jesus

May 25, 2008

[Realspiritik]

Good grief, it took me ages to set up the above chart so that it's relatively clear on the screen. It's far from perfect aesthetically speaking, but my original plan to use emoticons as the symbols ran into a major technical glitch. Of course, it doesn't print correctly at all. If some kind soul would be willing to make this table more printer-friendly, I would be extremely grateful.

 

I apologize to those for whom the chart may be unreadable. I am not the most techno-savvy person. However, I am always eager to learn, if anyone can offer helpful suggestions!

 

Jen

[TheGreatWhiteBuffalo]

Good grief, it took me ages to set up the above chart so that it's relatively clear on the screen. It's far from perfect aesthetically speaking, but my original plan to use emoticons as the symbols ran into a major technical glitch. Of course, it doesn't print correctly at all. If some kind soul would be willing to make this table more printer-friendly, I would be extremely grateful.

 

I apologize to those for whom the chart may be unreadable. I am not the most techno-savvy person. However, I am always eager to learn, if anyone can offer helpful suggestions!

 

Jen

 

 

Jen I think what you needed to do was to center some of the components in order to line everything up, it shouldn't be too hard to manage but I just don't have the time to work it out right now myself, I see many things that I might have issue with also, a form of bad theology is present in the above information as you have it presented or so it appears.

 

The forgiveness and burden issue is an upside down concept something that I've been trying to point out that something for the health of the person that seeking justice is not seeking revenge issue. There has to be a tool for relief.

 

Look at things this way the court system is a great tool for relief,

 

Sacrifice of death is not a good tool for relief because killing the guilty or the innocent is wrong.

 

The courts make people accountable for their actions,

Taking action to cause harm is a violation against man and GOD...

 

As a man I've had to let go and move past the toxic relationship created by my wife and her poison has ruined my relationship with our children, she should not be so empowered but how can I be more assertive without taking action and that won't help create a better relationship with my children so I am at a lost and I've had to let go and let GOD as Davidk wrote on another thread in time and over time things might come back when the children grow up and understand just how badly I was treated. It is a life lesson and I have to move on and start over once again.

 

So my perspective of the above will also be different as the meanings will be very different, not that you intended to post something that would cause harm, but from where I stand some of that information would force me to become something that I'm not or it would create in me a falseness making me shallow or even silent, instead of growing it would be causing great emotional harm.

 

Instead of being a Christian which in any interpretation would be profane, I would always strive to be a child of GOD, a source of light, exposing the darkness and making everything good.

 

I won't even say right because things are both right and left so in truth we need to be working together as a whole and not just one sided.

[TheGreatWhiteBuffalo]

Good morning, friends. Jesus here.

 

Today I present a chart that compares the values embraced by all of God's angels to the values of human beings. This chart contains very specific examples of angelic values.

 

This is the legend for the chart:

@ = 100% realization and practise of the stated value

&+ = partial realization of the stated value, but more mentorship is needed so the person can fully understand the meaning

/? = person has begun to lose the understanding of the stated value, and will have to work hard to reclaim the meaning

#$% = person has completely subverted the stated value, and is intentionally warping the meaning to serve selfish interests

* = not applicable for young children

^^^ = value is not understood or practised

 

.....................................Angel/Soul____2-Year-Old __Adult__Dysfunctional Human

 

1. understands boundary issues______ @__________ &+ _______ @ ____________ #$%

 

2. understands own personal limits ___ @ _________ &+ _______ @ ____________ #$%

 

3. understands others' personal limits_ @ __________ * ________ @ ____________ #$%

 

4. full range of emotional affect ______ @ _________ @ _______ @ _____________ ^^^

 

5. courage to love_________________ @ __________ @ _______ @ ______________ ^^^

 

6. courage to forgive______________ @ __________ @ ______ /? ______________ ^^^

 

7. does not bully _________________ @ __________ &+ _____ @ _______________ #$%

 

8. does not hold grudges___________ @ __________ &+ _____ /? _______________ ^^^

 

9. not afraid to use Tough Love______ @ __________ * _______ @ _______________ #$%

 

10. turns lemons into lemonade _____ @ __________ &+ _____ @ _______________ #$%

 

11. insight/wisdom_________________ @ __________ * _______ &+ ______________ #$%

 

12. can laugh at own self ___________ @ _________ @ _______ @ ________________ ^^^

 

13. cherishes friends _______________ @ _________ &+ _____ @ ________________ #$% for their unique qualities

 

14. cherishes one romantic soulmate __ @ _________ * _______ @ ________________ ^^^ (monogamy)

 

15. loves puzzles, games, ___________ @ ________ @ _________ @ ________________ ^^^ & sports but doesn't care who wins

 

16. team player ___________________ @ ________ &+ ________ @ _______________ #$%

 

17. cannot abide cultural myths ______ @ ________ &+ ________ @ ________________ #$% of racial superiority

 

18. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ ________ &+ _______ @ ________________ #$%

of gender superiority

 

19. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ ________ * _________ @ _________________ #$%

of religious "chosenness"

 

20. exquisite sense of timing ________ @ _________ * _________ &+ ________________ ^^^

 

 

Your God and your guardian angel know that you are fully capable of being a mature human adult (column 3). If you push yourself even harder over time, you can find yourself living with all the values of column 1 -- that is, you can overcome your fear of forgiving and your reluctance to let go of grudges, and you can also maximize your potential for insight/wisdom and your divine sense of timing. Column 1 can be said to represent the balanced values of living in the Christ Zone.

 

It takes a lot of time, a lot of assistance from others, and a lot of self-forgiveness to make the gradual transition from living in column 4 to living in column 3 or 1. It takes effort, commitment, and compassion from those around you for you to make this transition. But I assure you, based on my own personal experience as a spoiled young man who grew up and found his own heart, that it can be done. Please ask God to help you. God would love to help you become your true, angelic self.

 

Thank you.

Love Jesus

May 25, 2008

 

Hi Everyone,

I'm going to take these each one at a time for the purpose of perspective and the eye of the creator...

 

 

 

.....................................Angel/Soul____2-Year-Old __Adult__Dysfunctional Human

 

1. understands boundary issues______ @__________ &+ _______ @ ____________ #$%

 

Like the universe in some things there are no boundaries, like tuning an instrument you know there are many ways that an instrument can be tuned and played...

 

2. understands own personal limits ___ @ _________ &+ _______ @ ____________ #$%

 

We all can do what we choose to do, we can learn as we go and grow.

 

3. understands others' personal limits_ @ __________ * ________ @ ____________ #$%

 

Other people may choose to put limitations on what they want or wish to do, we should always strive to encourage growth and a good attitude to go for it exceed and succeed at least try to achieve.

 

4. full range of emotional affect ______ @ _________ @ _______ @ _____________ ^^^

 

I think in our own way we all do this...

 

5. courage to love_________________ @ __________ @ _______ @ ______________ ^^^

 

We all need this no courage required, Love is a gift passed from one person to another a gift from GOD.

 

6. courage to forgive______________ @ __________ @ ______ /? ______________ ^^^

 

We all need to be able to forgive those that ask to be forgiven...

 

7. does not bully _________________ @ __________ &+ _____ @ _______________ #$%

 

The source of a toxic relationship begins with forcing a particular point of view upon onthers, instead of allowing them to grow into an understanding....

 

8. does not hold grudges___________ @ __________ &+ _____ /? _______________ ^^^

 

Now how can you reconcile this with 6., 7., and 9.? Would you call correcting an injustice holding a grudge? The whole concept of having a grudge and tough love contradict each other in some cases discipline is required and discipline can require tough love and being rooted in a solid foundation standing solid as a rock. Choosing which issue to stand for and which to let crumble to grow as a person or nation. I've written a lot about a major problem in our world...

 

9. not afraid to use Tough Love______ @ __________ * _______ @ _______________ #$%

 

See #8.

 

10. turns lemons into lemonade _____ @ __________ &+ _____ @ _______________ #$%

 

Or squeezes the juice to flavor foods...

 

11. insight/wisdom_________________ @ __________ * _______ &+ ______________ #$%

 

We can all learn...

 

12. can laugh at own self ___________ @ _________ @ _______ @ ________________ ^^^

 

Laughter is good but not always appropriate... We all have emotions...

 

13. cherishes friends _______________ @ _________ &+ _____ @ ________________ #$% for their unique qualities

 

A given

 

14. cherishes one romantic soulmate __ @ _________ * _______ @ ________________ ^^^ (monogamy)

 

Nothing wrong with serial monogamy...

 

15. loves puzzles, games, ___________ @ ________ @ _________ @ ________________ ^^^ & sports but doesn't care who wins

 

This is really about not being selfish and cheating, we should want the best person to win... This particular question becomes cirrular with individual desires against the best outcome.

 

16. team player ___________________ @ ________ &+ ________ @ _______________ #$%

 

You have to be included and not everyone is always on the same page, but team players do know to work together. We all have to be able to see the present situation and the future goals.

 

17. cannot abide cultural myths ______ @ ________ &+ ________ @ ________________ #$% of racial superiority

 

This is the true definition of creating tollerance,

 

18. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ ________ &+ _______ @ ________________ #$%

of gender superiority

 

See #17. above

 

19. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ ________ * _________ @ _________________ #$%

of religious "chosenness"

 

I know I have this part down and I believe that GOD see's how our world is flawed by religious leaders that have manipulated the truth or true nature of GOD...

 

20. exquisite sense of timing ________ @ _________ * _________ &+ ________________ ^^^

 

 

Only by GOD's grace

 

Let's see what we have here....

[TheGreatWhiteBuffalo]

Good morning, friends. Jesus here.

 

Today I present a chart that compares the values embraced by all of God's angels to the values of human beings. This chart contains very specific examples of angelic values.

 

This is the legend for the chart:

@ = 100% realization and practise of the stated value

&+ = partial realization of the stated value, but more mentorship is needed so the person can fully understand the meaning

/? = person has begun to lose the understanding of the stated value, and will have to work hard to reclaim the meaning

#$% = person has completely subverted the stated value, and is intentionally warping the meaning to serve selfish interests

* = not applicable for young children

^^^ = value is not understood or practised

 

.....................................Angel/Soul____2-Year-Old __Adult_______Dysfunctional Human

 

1. understands boundary issues______ @__________ &+ _______ @ _________ #$%

 

2. understands own personal limits ___ @ _________ &+ _______ @ _________ #$%

 

3. understands others' personal limits_ @ __________ * ________ @ _________ #$%

 

4. full range of emotional affect ______ @ _________ @ _______ @ __________ ^^^

 

5. courage to love_________________ @ __________ @ _______ @ __________ ^^^

 

6. courage to forgive______________ @ __________ @ ______ /? __________ ^^^

 

7. does not bully _________________ @ __________ &+ _____ @ ___________ #$%

 

8. does not hold grudges___________ @ __________ &+ _____ /? ___________ ^^^

 

9. not afraid to use Tough Love______ @ __________ * _______ @ ___________ #$%

 

10. turns lemons into lemonade _____ @ __________ &+ _____ @ ___________ #$%

 

11. insight/wisdom_________________ @ __________ * _______ &+ __________ #$%

 

12. can laugh at own self ___________ @ _________ @ _______ @ ___________ ^^^

 

13. cherishes friends _______________ @ _________ &+ _____ @ ___________ #$% for their unique qualities

 

14. cherishes one romantic soulmate __ @ _________ * _______ @ ____________ ^^^ (monogamy)

 

15. loves puzzles, games, ___________ @ ________ @ _________ @ ____________ ^^^ & sports but doesn't care who wins

 

16. team player ___________________ @ ________ &+ ________ @ ___________ #$%

 

17. cannot abide cultural myths ______ @ ________ &+ ________ @ ____________ #$% of racial superiority

 

18. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ ________ &+ _______ @ ____________ #$%

of gender superiority

 

19. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ ________ * _________ @ ____________ #$%

of religious "chosenness"

 

20. exquisite sense of timing ________ @ _________ * _________ &+ ___________ ^^^

 

 

Your God and your guardian angel know that you are fully capable of being a mature human adult (column 3). If you push yourself even harder over time, you can find yourself living with all the values of column 1 -- that is, you can overcome your fear of forgiving and your reluctance to let go of grudges, and you can also maximize your potential for insight/wisdom and your divine sense of timing. Column 1 can be said to represent the balanced values of living in the Christ Zone.

 

It takes a lot of time, a lot of assistance from others, and a lot of self-forgiveness to make the gradual transition from living in column 4 to living in column 3 or 1. It takes effort, commitment, and compassion from those around you for you to make this transition. But I assure you, based on my own personal experience as a spoiled young man who grew up and found his own heart, that it can be done. Please ask God to help you. God would love to help you become your true, angelic self.

 

Thank you.

Love Jesus

May 25, 2008

 

Arrgghhhh! Last time...

 

...........................................Angel/Soul__2-Year-Old __Adult_____Dysfunctional Human

 

1. understands boundary issues______ @__________ &+ _______ @ _________ #$%

 

2. understands own personal limits ____@ _________ &+ _______ @ _________ #$%

 

3. understands others' personal limits__ @ __________ * ________ @ _________ #$%

 

4. full range of emotional affect _______@ _________ @ _______ @ _________ ^^^

 

5. courage to love__________________ @ _________ @ _______ @ _________ ^^^

 

6. courage to forgive_______________ @ __________ @ ______ /? _________ ^^^

 

7. does not bully ___________________ @ __________ &+ _____ @ _________ #$%

 

8. does not hold grudges____________ @ __________ &+ _____ /? _________ ^^^

 

9. not afraid to use Tough Love________ @ __________ * _______ @ _________ #$%

 

10. turns lemons into lemonade _______ @ __________ &+ _____ @ _________ #$%

 

11. insight/wisdom__________________ @ __________ * _______ &+ ________ #$%

 

12. can laugh at own self ____________ @ _________ @ _______ @ _________ ^^^

 

13. cherishes friends ________________ @ _________ &+ _____ @ __________ #$% for their unique qualities

 

14. cherishes one romantic soulmate ___ @ _________ * _______ @ _________ ^^^ (monogamy)

 

15. loves puzzles, games, ____________@ _________ @ _________ @ ________ ^^^ & sports but doesn't care who wins

 

16. team player ____________________@ _________ &+ ________ @ _______ #$%

 

17. cannot abide cultural myths _______ @ ________ &+ ________ @ ________ #$% of racial superiority

 

18. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ _________ &+ _______ @ _________ #$%

of gender superiority

 

19. cannot abide cultural myths _____ @ ________ * _________ @ _________ #$%

of religious "chosenness"

 

20. exquisite sense of timing ________ @ _________ * _________ &+ ________ ^^^

[Realspiritik]

Hi Everyone,

I'm going to take these each one at a time for the purpose of perspective and the eye of the creator...

 

15. loves puzzles, games, ___________ @ ________ @ _________ @ ________________ ^^^ & sports but doesn't care who wins

 

This is really about not being selfish and cheating, we should want the best person to win... This particular question becomes cirrular with individual desires against the best outcome.

 

Gary, my dear friend, I must gently say to you that I do not see in your three replies an understanding of what I am attempting to convey. Perhaps part of the problem is that you are using certain words and phrases with a different meaning than I (through Jen) am using them. The terms I am using, such as "boundary issues" and "emotional affect," are terms that will be familiar to those trained in psychodynamic theory.

 

Apart from the fact that you and I seem to be using words in different ways, there is also the reality that you and I do not agree on certain basic principles. I chose Point 15, quoted above, to illustrate the disagreement you and I have. When I stated that an angel/soul/mature human being loves puzzles, games, and sports, but doesn't care who wins, this is exactly what I meant. I am saying that a truly mature person does not care who wins. This is often conveyed in the old maxim, "It's not who wins or loses, but how you play the game." I am not talking about being selfish and cheating (although the dysfunctional Column 4 human approach to game-playing often ends up that way). I am talking about playing a game for the sheer joy of having fun with friends/family. You say, "We should want the best person to win." Who would this "best person" be? Who gets to decide who the "best person" is? You? I would not want to be in the position of asking God to take sides and pick "the best person to win." It is not a circular question. It is a question of maturity. If a person is truly mature, then she or he will understand that the point of a game is to have fun and to spend time laughing and goofing around with other people -- not to win for status's sake.

 

I wish you many blessings.

 

Love Jesus,

May 30, 2008

[TheGreatWhiteBuffalo]

Gary, my dear friend, I must gently say to you that I do not see in your three replies an understanding of what I am attempting to convey. Perhaps part of the problem is that you are using certain words and phrases with a different meaning than I (through Jen) am using them. The terms I am using, such as "boundary issues" and "emotional affect," are terms that will be familiar to those trained in psychodynamic theory.

 

Apart from the fact that you and I seem to be using words in different ways, there is also the reality that you and I do not agree on certain basic principles. I chose Point 15, quoted above, to illustrate the disagreement you and I have. When I stated that an angel/soul/mature human being loves puzzles, games, and sports, but doesn't care who wins, this is exactly what I meant. I am saying that a truly mature person does not care who wins. This is often conveyed in the old maxim, "It's not who wins or loses, but how you play the game." I am not talking about being selfish and cheating (although the dysfunctional Column 4 human approach to game-playing often ends up that way). I am talking about playing a game for the sheer joy of having fun with friends/family. You say, "We should want the best person to win." Who would this "best person" be? Who gets to decide who the "best person" is? You? I would not want to be in the position of asking God to take sides and pick "the best person to win." It is not a circular question. It is a question of maturity. If a person is truly mature, then she or he will understand that the point of a game is to have fun and to spend time laughing and goofing around with other people -- not to win for status's sake.

 

I wish you many blessings.

 

Love Jesus,

May 30, 2008

 

 

Hi Jen, as you could tell I liked working on the puzzle, it wasn't about centering it was about getting the right breaks in the columns so that everything would line up properly and observing that the quoted boxes are yet smaller than the main text page which is smaller than the text box we type our information in and by degree we see the diminished effect add to that diferent seperators and it gets to be quite a challenge.

 

Now of the one point #15 that you choose to use as a teaching instrument, I was wondering if a discussion would arise out of my reply and in deed this point that you seem to differ on you failed to realize that we are more agreed than we disagree, the problem is that we did not have the chance to see each other face to face and now that I get to reply may I be so understood that there becomes a moment of dawning...

 

I'm a big racing fan of Nascar and a really big Davey Allison fan, very saddened at his untiimely death. Who would I choose to win a race? While I like all of the other drivers Davey was an angel in my eyes and was a major contributor to the racing sport his sportsmanship enhanced the sport and so I would Choose Davey as my pick for his virtues as a Child of GOD...

 

Would GOD want me to win? Why not? Why not anyone? Yes, a mature person wants to see people have fun for the sake of having fun, but in most human races there can only be one winner, in the political field who shines as the one that should be the winner of three people currently in the media spot light? Only one is the true Child of GOD... Do you know who that is?

 

I certainly hope that I will be able to make this and another post as signing in seems so difficult almost as though I'm being blocked from participating.

 

Is your perspective truly mature?

[Realspiritik]

Jesus here.

 

I have referred in the past to the work of Abraham Maslow, whom some call the father of humanist psychology.

 

For the purposes of this piece, I will be quoting from Barbara Engler, “Humanism,” Personality Theories: An Introduction. 6th Ed. (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 2003), pp 358-390.

 

In 1970, Maslow presented his work on what he called the Hierarchy of Needs. He noticed that a small percentage of the population (less than 1% of the population as a whole) achieved a state he called “self-actualization.” He noted 15 characteristics common to self-actualizers. Engler presents these 15 characteristics in a table, and groups them under four key dimensions (awareness, honesty, freedom, and trust).

 

Here is Engler's presentation of Maslow's data:

 

Characteristics of Self-Actualizers

Awareness

• efficient and accurate perception of reality

• continued freshness of appreciation without preconceptions

• tendency to have peak experiences

• clear ethical awareness and standards but not necessarily conventional ones

Honesty

• philosophical sense of humor that pokes fun at our shared human pretensions

• deep feeling of kinship with all humanity

• selective and deep interpersonal relations with small circle of intimates

• democratic character structure accepting of all people

Freedom

• detachment and a need for privacy

• autonomous and independent of culture and environment

• creativeness characterizing whatever they do

• spontaneity, simplicity, and naturalness

Trust

• problem- rather than self-centered

• acceptance of self, others, and nature for what they are

• resistance to cultural conformity

 

“Peak experience,” a term used by Maslow, is described as follows by Engler: “A peak experience is an intensification of any experience to the degree that there is a loss or transcendence of self. These kinds of experiences are often mystical or religious, but Maslow emphasized that . . . a peak experience may be provoked by a secular event as well” (364).

 

Maslow noted that peak experiences have a way of “lingering on” and permanently transforming a person's understanding of her/his relationship with creation. People who have peak experiences are never quite the same again.

 

Welcome to my world. If you take the above list of characteristics, and add to this list a profound faith in God, a profound faith that God loves you and respects you, a profound faith that God knows what a wonderful person you are deep within, then you'll have a pretty good understanding of what it would feel like if you were to live every day in the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of the Heavens that I spoke of in the Synoptics (Matthew, Mark, and Luke).

 

You'll have a pretty good understanding of what it would feel like to live in the Christ Zone.

 

You'll have a pretty good understanding of what it would feel like to live with Oneness of Heart + Differentness of Mind + Differentness of Body + Differentness of Talent.

 

You'll have a pretty good understanding of what it would feel like to love your God and your neighbour with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and all your mind.

 

You'll have a pretty good understanding of what it would feel like to embrace the 20 angelic values in the chart I presented above.

 

You'll have a pretty good understanding of what it would feel like to be a Yeshuan/Progressive Christian who walks beside me on the path.

 

These are all ways of saying the same thing.

 

The crucial difference -- and it's a big difference -- between Maslow's understanding of self-actualization and my own understanding of self-actualization is the model for how to actually achieve it. Maslow believed that self-actualization was at the top of a pyramid: you had to start at the bottom of a pyramid, and climb four different steps before you could get to the top. You couldn't even think about achieving self-actualization or peak experiences unless you first met your physiological needs, second your safety needs, third your belonging and love needs, and fourth your self-esteem needs.

 

The work of Viennese psychiatrist and Auschwitz survivor Viktor Frankl, author of Man's Search For Meaning, demonstrates conclusively the inadequacy of Maslow's pyramidal model. The reality is more complex than Maslow made it seem. The reality is that the four basic needs identified by Maslow (physiological, safety, belonging/love, self-esteem) must be constantly balanced with each other. They are not sequential needs. They are simultaneous needs. The visual model is not a pyramid. The visual model is a Celtic Cross, with a large circle in the centre that represents the Christ Zone, the experience of self-actualization. Each of the four arms of the cross represents one of the four basic needs. When these four basic needs are balanced, juggled, traded off as best one can under a particular set of experiences, peak experiences begin to spontaneously pop into your daily life. You cannot force these peak experiences. They come when they come.

 

The reason so few people (less than 1% of the general population) experience self-actualization is not genetic. The reason is a lack of balance in most people's lives. The reason is a wide cultural adherence to status-oriented choices, to hierarchy-of-the-heart. People are simply not choosing to accept the kinds of values that would build their brain architecture in ways that facilitate peace, transcendence, and experiences of Oneness with God's Heart.

 

Yes, it really is that simple. Yes, it really is about the choices you make. And yes, it's a bugger to learn how to make the kinds of loving choices I'm talking about.

 

I love you all. I hope you have found this thread about The Grail informative.

 

Love Jesus

May 31, 2008

[davidk]

See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name saying ,"I am the Christ," and will mislead you. Don't follow 'em, because they'll deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name.

 

Love,

Jesus (the real one)

[Realspiritik]

See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name saying ,"I am the Christ," and will mislead you. Don't follow 'em, because they'll deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name.

 

Love,

Jesus (the real one)

 

Jesus here, Davidk, and this post is directed to you, my friend, in response to your above note. I have a problem on many levels with your comment. Let me state first that I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that you have your own personal opinions and that you have a right to your own opinions. So I'm not attempting to talk you out of your own opinions (a courtesy you do not show others). I am, however, going to strenuously object to your use of my name. You are not on my list of approved channellers, Davidk, and I do not give you my permission to use my name. You can go ahead and talk about what you think I said and what you think I taught. But you are not a channeller. Only those men and women who have gone through channelling boot-camp with God and God's guardian angels are given permission to pass onto others what is said by quantum beings such as myself. The list of qualified channellers currently practising on Planet Earth is very small indeed. You are not on the list.

 

If you would like to be a channeller, Davidk, two things are required of you by God. The first requirement is that you must have the natural soul ability to be a channeller. This soul ability, if you have it, is encoded in your biological DNA. To be a channeller is NOT the same thing as having intuition. I repeat -- a channeller is NOT a person who has intuition. All human beings are born with the capacity to be intuitive. It is a function of your brain architecture. Most people lose their natural intuitive brain circuitry by age 15 or 16 through lack of use and lack of proper mentoring.

 

A channeller (I'm telling you this in some detail, Davidk, so you will not be able to tell me that nobody ever told you what I'm telling you) is a person who, like everybody else, has built-in intuitive brain circuitry and who on top of and in addition to that intuitive brain circuitry has a skill set that must be recognized and properly trained to be of any use.

 

One can no more become a channeller simply by stating to God, "Hey, God, today I've decided to become a channeller, and tomorrow I'll hang out my shingle, and you and I can get started," than one can become a teacher or a nurse or a neurosurgeon or an ordained minister by stating to God, "Hey, God, I've decided to become a neurosurgeon. Today I'll buy some scalpels and stuff, and tomorrow I'll hang out my shingle, and you and I can get started."

 

This leads me to the second requirement for your being on the list of qualified channellers. The second requirement is that you must willingly and humbly sign up for channeller's boot camp.

 

Boot camp is as tough and demanding as its name. Boot camp is run by one's own guardian angel. There is a set curriculum. You do not get to choose the curriculum. The standards are very high, very exacting for getting a Pass in the various skills and strengths you'll be expected to develop. There is, for example, no Pass margin of 50% on the Learn-How-To-Forgive Course. You must keep trying till you get a 100% grade in Forgiveness under a wide variety of real and very painful field tests. A certified channeller must be able to summon true core forgiveness under any set of consequences, no matter what has happened or to whom. (I note here that the Forgiveness Course is not restricted to would-be channellers, but is in fact open to all individuals at any time and in any place). A certified channeller has a single toolbox, and that toolbox is the human brain. The human brain must, over a period of several years -- I repeat, several years -- be rebuilt almost from the bottom up, neuron by neuron, glial cell by glial cell, until the brain is as healthy and as balanced and as attuned to quantum communications as it is possible for a brain to be. (Note: the goal of having a healthy and balanced brain is not restricted to channellers, but is open to all individuals. A healthy, balanced brain is an important toolkit for artists and writers and athletes and anyone who wants to develop his or her own unique skill set, whatever it may be).

 

Boot camp is very tough, Davidk. I do not recommend that anyone try to embark on it without having emotional support from human friends and trained professionals (such as a licensed psychotherapist) because the level of emotional intensity is high in boot camp, and few people in this society are equipped to deal in mature ways with emotional intensity. There will be emotional pain as part of the process, and you must have effective coping mechanisms in place before your guardian angel will even let you begin. Otherwise, you are likely to trigger an episode of serious mental illness.

 

This is a preliminary statement only, Davidk. I could go on at considerable length to explain what is involved in becoming a qualified channeller as far as God is concerned.

 

Jen is a qualified channeller. She went through boot camp. It took her four years working 24/7/365. Do the math. That is the commitment necessary for the human brain to undergo "an extreme makeover" at the biological level, and for the human brain to become fully integrated with one's soul talent as a quantum communicator (i.e. channeller). If that sounds like the amount of time and effort it takes to do postgraduate studies at a university, you would not be wrong. It's a good analogy.

 

You will have to discuss with God, Davidk, whether or not this is a suitable path for you. I present facts here for your consideration. These facts are not debatable. It is up to you to decide how you choose to use this information.

 

Jesus,

July 2, 2008

 

P.S. I never said I was the Christ. The founder of the Christ religion in its Christian form was Paul. I founded what I am forced to call, for lack of a better term, Yeshuan Christianity. On this site, I have used the term Concinnate Christianity as a way of distancing my teachings from the Christ teachings of Paul. You will have to choose, my friend, whether you are are follower of the teachings of Paul, or whether you are a follower of the teachings of me, Jesus. They are not the same teachings.