Is Following Christ Compatible With Christianity?

[davidk]

Jen-

This is really very uncomplicated.

"What is there" means exactly what it says. And "what is there" says: "what exists". "What exists" says "REAL LIFE".

I hope that is more clearly expressed.

 

Honestly, preferentially, I "...pick and choose the parts of the Bible that suit..." me where it begins with, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." and it ends with "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all. Amen."

 

"...the disadvantaged "deserved" their misery because they were being "punished" by God."-canajan, eh?

I can't seem to find this as any of God's propositional communication to us in Scripture.

 

So you skip the parts that explains true Biblical Patriarchy is not man dominance, but God dominance through man as head of his household, where he must love his household as Christ loves the church and if necessary lay down his life for it. Wanna trade?

I am not certain where one might find the Bible addressing, "hierarchy" and "inequality of souls" as God's approved doctrine.

 

The entirety of Scripture is God's "salvation" message to mankind.

 

Autumn-

You may call me whatever your little heart desires.

If you want my answers to all of the questions you posed I will gladly do so. However, I thought it may have been too lengthy for this blog. I will continue at your discretion.

 

TGWB-

I read your 'blogspot'. I could not agree with your summation of Matthew 18.

 

A Christian is one who knows Jesus is their Lord and Savior as He said He is, from the only document containing the historical prophecy and presentation of eyewitness accounts. No other religion or person can supercede those truths.

The entire Bible contains the promises of God with no contradiction. Christianity is the community of believers, God's church, as faulty as we are.

What other religion points to Jesus as incarnate God? What religion can explain the questions of existence, morality, and how we know that we know, besides from the Word of God, the Bible. None are sufficient. Only the Judeo-Christian God can answer these questions sufficiently and truthfully.

If one cannot believe these things, how does one insist on calling himself a Christian? "Do, or do not, there is no try."-Yoda

(A side note- Why do you type "tRuTh"?)

 

Wayseer-

Welcome! I have a question for you: Since Jesus said He was the only way to God, the Father, how does one have the contempt, the audacity to tell Him He's wrong? Or worse, that He's lying.

[October's Autumn]

Wayseer-

Welcome! I have a question for you: Since Jesus said He was the only way to God, the Father, how does one have the contempt, the audacity to tell Him He's wrong? Or worse, that He's lying.

 

 

Or, that Jesus said no such thing. It is the writer of the Gospel of John who put the words in Jesus' mouth for the purpose of reaching his audience. Many of the things attributed to Jesus were also part of Mithraism a competing theology (if you will) to Christianity at this time. Most likely the writer of John was trying to win coverts who were familiar with or followers of this religious practice.

 

 

davidk I don't really need your answers. I was challenging your notion that you are not a fundamentalist. I don't have a particular need to call you anything. I can likely predict your answers to all or most of those questions. Like many, you follow a formula. I can't really blame you. Leaving these hurtful sects of Christianity can be extremely difficult (much like leaving an abusive relationship) as many of us here will attest to. While I feel for you because you are still trapped I also understand what you have to give up in order to leave. It is something many of us do but so many more are not able to. You may not even be aware of your need to get out.

 

Reminds of the frog in the pot of boiling water. If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will immediately jump out. If you put it in a pot of water and slowly raise the temperature it will boil to death completely unaware of the fact it is dying.

 

 

(Turns out my analogy is folk-tale http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp but it is still a good illustration).

[davidk]

Jen-

This is really very uncomplicated.

"What is there" means exactly what it says. And "what is there" says: "what exists". "What exists" says "REAL LIFE".

I hope that is more clearly expressed.

 

Honestly, preferentially, I "...pick and choose the parts of the Bible that suit..." me where it begins with, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." and it ends with "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all. Amen."

 

"...the disadvantaged "deserved" their misery because they were being "punished" by God."-canajan, eh?

I can't seem to find this as any of God's propositional communication to us in Scripture.

 

So you skip the parts that explains true Biblical Patriarchy is not man dominance, but God dominance through man as head of his household, where he must love his household as Christ loves the church and if necessary lay down his life for it. Wanna trade?

I am not certain where one might find the Bible addressing, "hierarchy" and "inequality of souls" as God's approved doctrine.

 

The entirety of Scripture is God's "salvation" message to mankind.

 

Autumn-

You may call me whatever your little heart desires.

If you want my answers to all of the questions you posed I will gladly do so. However, I thought it may have been too lengthy for this blog. I will continue at your discretion.

 

TGWB-

I read your 'blogspot'. I could not agree with your summation of Matthew 18.

 

A Christian is one who knows Jesus is their Lord and Savior as He said He is, from the only document containing the historical prophecy and presentation of eyewitness accounts. No other religion or person can supercede those truths.

The entire Bible contains the promises of God with no contradiction. Christianity is the community of believers, God's church, as faulty as we are.

What other religion points to Jesus as incarnate God? What religion can explain the questions of existence, morality, and how we know that we know, besides from the Word of God, the Bible. None are sufficient. Only the Judeo-Christian God can answer these questions sufficiently and truthfully.

If one cannot believe these things, how does one insist on calling himself a Christian? "Do, or do not, there is no try."-Yoda

(A side note- Why do you type "tRuTh"?)

 

Wayseer-

Welcome! I have a question for you: Since Jesus said He was the only way to God, the Father, how does one have the contempt, the audacity to tell Him He's wrong? Or worse, that He's lying.

[Wayseer]

Wayseer-

Welcome! I have a question for you: Since Jesus said He was the only way to God, the Father, how does one have the contempt, the audacity to tell Him He's wrong? Or worse, that He's lying.

 

I don't think Jesus said any such thing - in fact it is a very 'unJesus' saying - it does not fit. These words were cut and pasted in by writers well after his death and the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE.

 

What Jesus was on about was that there was no compulsion to adhere to the legalism of the Law - a theme picked up by Paul, the first of the Christian writers. Jesus moved about within the Jewish community and had he have claimed, as you suggest, that he was the only way to YHVH, he would have been quickly killed - that he lived for as long as he did proves he made no such claim. Of course, that did not stop others from claiming he had made such claims.

[McKenna]

McKenna:

 

I would like to address other posts and questions, particularly McKenna and her questions about Tough Love,

 

I'm not certain that I will be permitted to post again in the next several hours so I'll try to just quickly point out that I'm not aware of Jesus using tough Love on people.

 

That's why I asked, because I wasn't sure that we were all meaning the same thing when we said 'tough love.'

 

I believe the topic was first brought up in post 74, by Jen, who - if I interpreted her correctly - was talking about 'tough love' in terms of calling people out for being hypocrites - which Jesus certainly did, at least as the Gospels tell it.

 

In other words, you can still feel love towards someone even if you sometimes have to tell them to cut the crap. And you can feel angry towards someone you love! I don't think that's disguised hatred. I think that's called being human.

 

I certainly get angry at people I love, and I sometimes have to tell them when they're being ridiculous or hypocritical (and they have to tell me that as well!). Doesn't mean we don't love each other. It just means we're being honest.

 

*shrug*

[Realspiritik]

davidk I don't really need your answers. I was challenging your notion that you are not a fundamentalist. I don't have a particular need to call you anything. I can likely predict your answers to all or most of those questions. Like many, you follow a formula. I can't really blame you. Leaving these hurtful sects of Christianity can be extremely difficult (much like leaving an abusive relationship) as many of us here will attest to. While I feel for you because you are still trapped I also understand what you have to give up in order to leave. It is something many of us do but so many more are not able to. You may not even be aware of your need to get out.

 

Thank you, OA, for your honest, compassionate words. It takes a long time to deal with the effects of spiritual abuse.

 

Jen

[Realspiritik]

That's why I asked, because I wasn't sure that we were all meaning the same thing when we said 'tough love.'

 

I believe the topic was first brought up in post 74, by Jen, who - if I interpreted her correctly - was talking about 'tough love' in terms of calling people out for being hypocrites - which Jesus certainly did, at least as the Gospels tell it.

 

In other words, you can still feel love towards someone even if you sometimes have to tell them to cut the crap. And you can feel angry towards someone you love! I don't think that's disguised hatred. I think that's called being human.

 

I certainly get angry at people I love, and I sometimes have to tell them when they're being ridiculous or hypocritical (and they have to tell me that as well!). Doesn't mean we don't love each other. It just means we're being honest.

 

*shrug*

 

Yup. I was the culprit who brought up tough love. I stand by it, too.

 

McKenna, you made me laugh out loud with your *shrug*. That's just what I needed on this wintry Monday morning -- a quip that says so much with just one word.

 

Jen

[Realspiritik]

Hey, everybody,

 

I'm thinkin' I'm just not going to respond to Davidk on this thread or any other.

 

Davidk, good luck to you, man.

 

Jen

[davidk]

I don't think Jesus said any such thing - in fact it is a very 'unJesus' saying - it does not fit. These words were cut and pasted in by writers well after his death and the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE.

 

What Jesus was on about was that there was no compulsion to adhere to the legalism of the Law - a theme picked up by Paul, the first of the Christian writers. Jesus moved about within the Jewish community and had he have claimed, as you suggest, that he was the only way to YHVH, he would have been quickly killed - that he lived for as long as he did proves he made no such claim. Of course, that did not stop others from claiming he had made such claims.

If I recall the Bible correctly, he was killed. It was not that He claimed to be the only way to the Father, but that He claimed to be equally God with the Father and for that He was sought to be killed.

 

I suppose this begs the question, Where do we find a very 'Jesus" saying that would not be compromised by being in the Bible?

 

I "cut and paste" very accurately. How are yours? How many sayings can be contributed to "cut and paste" error? Which can't?

 

Some have the wrong understanding of what God's Law was all about. Even after Jesus came to fulfill it. The Law cannot make anyone do anything. God's purpose for the Law is to expose sin and our need for salvation from a source other than ourselves. Hence, Jesus fulfilled the Law by being our Salvation. He is the only one that can legitimately make that claim and He did.

(Be careful mentioning Paul, some of the other posts don't feel he has any credibility.)

 

Autumn-

I didn't mean to suggest you needed my answers. I believed you asked in order to get them. Now I'm puzzled why you asked since you already knew my fomulaic answers. Clearly, if you can assume my hurtful answers there would be no need to disappoint you. If you've been hurt by anyone claiming to be a Christian, forgive them. They happen to be just as human as you are.

That is one of the biggest problems claiming to be a Christian may present. Non believers think Christians should act like Jesus, perfectly. When they don't, "He's a hypocrite, who wants that religion? Hurtful Liar!" Very difficult to overcome. It's not until the non believer discovers the Biblical God is really who it says He is, the author. The light comes on. Love and compassion become understandable, livable. Man's delimma is explained. And the truth flows out of scripture in torrents. Am I perfect? Hardly! But I have accepted the gift of God, His only begotten Son as my Lord and Savior by His Grace, Jesus Christ.

[TheGreatWhiteBuffalo]

That's why I asked, because I wasn't sure that we were all meaning the same thing when we said 'tough love.'

 

I believe the topic was first brought up in post 74, by Jen, who - if I interpreted her correctly - was talking about 'tough love' in terms of calling people out for being hypocrites - which Jesus certainly did, at least as the Gospels tell it.

 

In other words, you can still feel love towards someone even if you sometimes have to tell them to cut the crap. And you can feel angry towards someone you love! I don't think that's disguised hatred. I think that's called being human.

 

I certainly get angry at people I love, and I sometimes have to tell them when they're being ridiculous or hypocritical (and they have to tell me that as well!). Doesn't mean we don't love each other. It just means we're being honest.

 

*shrug*

 

That is not the Tough Love that I experienced where I was cut off or cut out, excommunicated from Church, Family and Friends... The Tough Love that creates terrorists by bullying and abusing others and when they are wrong they never appologize, this Tough Love is an act or action that is not Love...

 

Jesus and I call for accountabilty of others, that is true that is not Tough Love that is holding others accountable so that they don't lose their eternal soul, violating others and removing the path to eternal life. Jesus taught us a way to be clean before GOD the Great Spirit. This is not tough or hard it is loving to follow the instructions the path is made smooth and the burden is light. You see the light and the load is light the path is narrow for few will find that path as they are afraid to expose their faults.

 

I hope I pick up your spirit so that your shrug is turned into a hug...

 

Yes, definitions are important, and yet the meaning is consistent for both of us, or so I think correct me if I am wrong... Tough Love is isolating one from communion, as pointed out in another thread Jesus would seek out those that desire to be found... Jesus would always entertain those of different opinions who seek to know the truth. Jesus had answers for everyone. Jesus helped the blind see and the deaf could then hear and the dumb could speak clearly. Jesus healed both body and mind, for by healing the mind the body would also be healed.

 

TGWB-

I read your 'blogspot'. I could not agree with your summation of Matthew 18.

 

A Christian is one who knows Jesus is their Lord and Savior as He said He is, from the only document containing the historical prophecy and presentation of eyewitness accounts. No other religion or person can supercede those truths.

The entire Bible contains the promises of God with no contradiction. Christianity is the community of believers, God's church, as faulty as we are.

What other religion points to Jesus as incarnate God? What religion can explain the questions of existence, morality, and how we know that we know, besides from the Word of God, the Bible. None are sufficient. Only the Judeo-Christian God can answer these questions sufficiently and truthfully.

If one cannot believe these things, how does one insist on calling himself a Christian? "Do, or do not, there is no try."-Yoda

(A side note- Why do you type "tRuTh"?)

 

 

TGWB- to DavidK

 

I read your 'blogspot'. I could not agree with your summation of Matthew 18. -- (Why not?, I used the KJV of the Bible, I think it reads very similar to the NIV I see that the text needs to be fixed to be consistent with the teachings of Jesus over 2,000 years ago, how is it that you don't see the problem? Look again, at that Blogspot entry and the Blog of My Story and you'll see that I am the Brother that was hurt by a Brother in Christ as I was falsely accused by a Brother through Denomination, I was Dominated by the Government and the Church, so what I bind on Earth shall be bound on Earth and what I Loosen on Earth so shall be Loosened in Heaven, Does the Church have a foundation to stand on? If I claim and can prove that the Bible is full of Errors, then so it shall be, by GOD the Great Spirit, if so doing I usher in a new day of Peace around the world then so be it by GOD the Great Spirit... You have chosen not to see, or hear, you would likely prefer that I do not speak or write, but that doesn't purify you in the refiners fire, to make you more precious than GOLD and Silver...)

 

A Christian is one who knows Jesus is their Lord and Savior as He said He is, from the only document containing the historical prophecy and presentation of eyewitness accounts. No other religion or person can supercede those truths. -- (Not unless given a special blessing by GOD the Great Spirit)

 

The entire Bible contains the promises of God with no contradiction. Christianity is the community of believers, God's church, as faulty as we are. -- (The Curses of Evil and the Wrath of GOD is a Contradiction in the Bible that needs to be fixed! The Church is a building that has been errected on a false foundation the Bible is flawed to declare that we needed Jesus to die for our SALVATION, Jesus never had to die, yet you don't see, hear or speak the truth when you repeat the lie in the Bible, GOD is GREATER than that, GOD never needed a sacrifice, GOD needs our OBEDIENCE and that requires us to know one thing... Help Others, Tell the Truth! All religious texts in all religions can be reduced to this one phrase.)

 

What other religion points to Jesus as incarnate God? What religion can explain the questions of existence, morality, and how we know that we know, besides from the Word of God, the Bible. None are sufficient. Only the Judeo-Christian God can answer these questions sufficiently and truthfully. -- (Galileo was a scientist and a Christian who was killed for proclaiming the world was not flat but round in the form of a sphere, by GOD given intelligence... It is time to understand the Bible has been changing and is in need of a major change, for there is another truth that I am sharing and that truth is complex yet simple, religion needs to be united not dividing, religion needs to remove the evil from with in... There is a need for 'The Evolution of Religion.')

 

If one cannot believe these things, how does one insist on calling himself a Christian? "Do, or do not, there is no try."-Yoda -- (A Christian is one who believes in GOD and in the teachings of Jesus the true teachings of Jesus and the truth can be known, let's talk about Matthew 18 and the debts that Jesus was concerned about, the ministry of Jesus was very concerned about financial freedom, first and foremost! What that means is that Jesus was most concerned about people living in poverty or better yet getting people out of poverty, but that is not all. Jesus was very concerned about the well being of people and victims of crimes.)

 

(A side note- Why do you type "tRuTh"?) -- The book of Ruth was very important to me as my wife had the Verse Ruth 1: 16-18 engraved into my wedding band, too bad she didn't trust me and obey me to communicate with me and to tell the tRuTh... She has not asked to be forgiven and she claims that she would never want to be the Proverbs 31 wife... She has succeeded in all that she has aspired to accomplish, it is sad that the Church empowered her to lie and helped her lie. Ergo the Church leaders are way over the mark and the line has been crossed they are false teachers wearing millstone necklaces, a fate that many will suffer...)

[October's Autumn]

Autumn-

I didn't mean to suggest you needed my answers. I believed you asked in order to get them.

 

Your answers to the questions demonstrate where you land on the spectrum of those who call themselves Christians. Based on the obviousness of your comments it is easy to see you are a fundamentalist even though you don't like to be called one.

 

 

The problem with fundamentalism is that it distorts who God is just as you have a distorted view of God. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy or with people who call themselves Christians who are human. It has nothing to do with needing to forgive anyone. It is fundamentalists and conservatives who need to ask God for forgiveness for creating an idol out of the bible and for not being willing to know God. They are much more interested in their doctrines and dogmas than in actually have a relationship (though they will claim to). I've never met a non-Christian who thought Christians should be perfect. They have only thought they should be honest -- honest with themselves and honest with others.

[soma]

My individual peanut mind can't grasp God because God is too vast. The image that my unit mind can grasp is another unit being who serves as a model for spiritual life. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." Jesus is pointing the way to God and is the tangential point between the macrocosm and the microcosm. By using Jesus as a personal model and a focal point, I can attain Christ consciousness. It is the perfect consciousness for me because it has attained all of the possibilities in the human state. In it all potential is actualized on this earthly plane so it becomes the prototype of being for my peanut mind to be a Christ conscious mind. It admits and supports the idea that there are varied upward paths to God, and the diversity in different world faiths diminishes as I approach Christ consciousness. Evolution and all spiritual paths lead God.

 

When we come closer to our spiritual role models, we come closer to all, and vice a versa; when we come closer to all, we come closer to our role models. Thus, we should work on expanding our minds and seeing the all-pervading God consciousness working in life. The incomplete love that I have for Christ means I lack understanding because when I understand something I love it completely. In complete love there is an element of my consciousness that unites with the love object in deep understanding. This love attraction needs to be refined and purified through constant contemplation. In a meditation to know and identify with the same source of existence as Christ, I become aware of the principle of God's consciousness dwelling in all things. One doesn't just unite with gross matter as if eating the food we love but one's every potential becomes activated in God's consciousness, and the whole man or woman is born again in the consciousness united with everything. This is how God enters our human reality, and we become whole or holy.

 

Members of a church in Kansas travel across the country to stir up hatred and division. They carry signs that say, "God hates America". This is a question of how much dogma is between us and God. If Christians are getting spirituality second-hand from somebody who fears then we will fear. If we we get our spirituality straight from the source then we will love our brothers and sisters with our whole heart, mind and body. Take away all the spin and Christianity is about love and unity. "Love your neighbor as yourself."

[Wayseer]

David you already have your answers and those who claim to have the answers gernerally do not like questions.

 

Soma writes - My individual peanut mind can't grasp God because God is too vast - nor, do I suggest does anyone else. The paradox seems to be that the closer one gets to GOD the greater the gap.

 

David, GOD is not contained in a book, no matter how beautiful it is bound. Nor is GOD held captive by words however sincerely they may be uttered. Nor is GOD found in intellectualising however skillfully argued. When you learn these lessons you will not need your book nor your pedantry.

[davidk]

Wayseer-

Are you saying I don't like questions or that you don't like questions? (i.e. Where do we find a very 'Jesus" saying that would not be compromised by being in the Bible? How many sayings can be contributed to "cut and paste" error? Which can't?)

 

There is truth in your Gap theory. The closer the relationship we have with the infinite- personal God, the more we realize how magnificent He is.

 

Who said 'God is contained in a book'? (is this another question? omigosh, there's another one.)

 

Autumn-

I haven't answered the questions yet. I tried to explain I would respond at your discretion beacause I thought it may get lengthy. You answered them for me and then criticized my answers. What can I say?

(Mar 9-"However, I thought it may have been too lengthy for this blog. I will continue at your discretion."

"davidk I don't really need your answers." and "I can likely predict your answers to all or most of those questions.", then "...much like leaving an abusive relationship... .")

It has got to be difficult for anyone trapped in a relationship where they are being abused. The embarassment, the shame, before finally gathering your courage to say, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!", and gettin' out!

 

Soma-

You write beautifully, but I am really having a difficult time wrestling with the 'tangential's', the '-cosm's', the seemingly inexplicable 'concsiousnesses', and some 'human state'. All of that confuses God's message into a diluted mytical fantasy world.

 

"Love your neighbor as yourself" is secondary to the first command, "Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and mind."

[October's Autumn]

Autumn-

I haven't answered the questions yet. I tried to explain I would respond at your discretion beacause I thought it may get lengthy. You answered them for me and then criticized my answers. What can I say?

 

But you have answered them. Almost every time you write a response you answer them. The specific details to those specific questions aren't necessary -- only your general mindset. I didn't answer them for you, simply explained that I already knew your answers (or at least most of them). There is no "thought" in your posts only pre-programmed reactions.

 

I'm not sure why you think you are on this forum. If you think you will convince those of us who have already been where you are and have seen the errors to come back you are wasting your time and energy. If you are hear to learn then you need to stop, take a deep breath and listen...

[October's Autumn]

David you already have your answers and those who claim to have the answers generally do not like questions.

 

 

I agree with your observations, Wayseer. I'm still trying to figure out davidk's point in being here. He does not appear interested in learning anything only in trying to convince everyone that they are wrong and he is right. I hope *I* am wrong and he is here for some other reason.

[Wayseer]

I agree with your observations, Wayseer. I'm still trying to figure out davidk's point in being here. He does not appear interested in learning anything only in trying to convince everyone that they are wrong and he is right. I hope *I* am wrong and he is here for some other reason.

 

 

Davidk is here because he desperately hopes he's right. If he 'knew' he was right he would not 'need' to be here. He also 'needs' love. Unfortunately his need for love is so desperate that he will manipulate others just to get them to respond to his posts thereby supplying his 'need' - however negatively such need may be met - it's called passive/resistence and canine trainers know it well. We all play these games to some extent but most of us, thankfully, learn and mature. But have a thought for Davidk - to let go of a well tried and supportive behaviour pattern takes no little courage. Look what happened to the man whose habit it was to wait beside the pool waiting for a miracle until Jesus cured him one Sabbot (Jn 5:1-18) - couldn't wait to dob him in to the Pharisees. There are those who'll kick even while being saved.

[McKenna]

That is not the Tough Love that I experienced where I was cut off or cut out, excommunicated from Church, Family and Friends... The Tough Love that creates terrorists by bullying and abusing others and when they are wrong they never appologize, this Tough Love is an act or action that is not Love...

 

Jesus and I call for accountabilty of others, that is true that is not Tough Love that is holding others accountable so that they don't lose their eternal soul, violating others and removing the path to eternal life. Jesus taught us a way to be clean before GOD the Great Spirit. This is not tough or hard it is loving to follow the instructions the path is made smooth and the burden is light. You see the light and the load is light the path is narrow for few will find that path as they are afraid to expose their faults.

 

Very well. However you wish to define tough love is up to you. But clearly we agree on what is acceptable (holding others accountable) and what is not acceptable (excommunication, terrorism).

 

I hope I pick up your spirit so that your shrug is turned into a hug...

 

Aww

 

*hug*

 

Yes, definitions are important, and yet the meaning is consistent for both of us, or so I think correct me if I am wrong... Tough Love is isolating one from communion, as pointed out in another thread Jesus would seek out those that desire to be found... Jesus would always entertain those of different opinions who seek to know the truth. Jesus had answers for everyone. Jesus helped the blind see and the deaf could then hear and the dumb could speak clearly. Jesus healed both body and mind, for by healing the mind the body would also be healed.

 

Indeed

 

What other religion points to Jesus as incarnate God? What religion can explain the questions of existence, morality, and how we know that we know, besides from the Word of God, the Bible. None are sufficient. Only the Judeo-Christian God can answer these questions sufficiently and truthfully. -- (Galileo was a scientist and a Christian who was killed for proclaiming the world was not flat but round in the form of a sphere, by GOD given intelligence... It is time to understand the Bible has been changing and is in need of a major change, for there is another truth that I am sharing and that truth is complex yet simple, religion needs to be united not dividing, religion needs to remove the evil from with in... There is a need for 'The Evolution of Religion.')

 

Er...no? Maybe you mean someone else? If I'm correct (and Wikipedia says I am ), Galileo wasn't killed but was placed under house arrest and forced to recant. Also, I'm not sure if he argued that the Earth was round or not (I think they already knew that?), but the main problem the Church had with him was his advocacy of the theory of heliocentrism...

 

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong in my history there )

 

Who said 'God is contained in a book'? (is this another question? omigosh, there's another one.)

 

Haha, this amused me

 

Thanks for maintaining a sense of humor (or sarcasm) despite all the criticism aimed at you.

[McKenna]

Davidk is here because he desperately hopes he's right. If he 'knew' he was right he would not 'need' to be here. He also 'needs' love. Unfortunately his need for love is so desperate that he will manipulate others just to get them to respond to his posts thereby supplying his 'need' - however negatively such need may be met - it's called passive/resistence and canine trainers know it well. We all play these games to some extent but most of us, thankfully, learn and mature. But have a thought for Davidk - to let go of a well tried and supportive behaviour pattern takes no little courage. Look what happened to the man whose habit it was to wait beside the pool waiting for a miracle until Jesus cured him one Sabbot (Jn 5:1-18) - couldn't wait to dob him in to the Pharisees. There are those who'll kick even while being saved.

 

Maybe we should let DavidK speak for himself as to why he's here? Speaking of what his 'needs' are seems to me to assume a knowledge of his character that one can't possibly have obtained from a few comments online

[October's Autumn]

Maybe we should let DavidK speak for himself as to why he's here? Speaking of what his 'needs' are seems to me to assume a knowledge of his character that one can't possibly have obtained from a few comments online

 

 

Maybe, but it is so much more fun to psychoanalyze people I see Wayfarer analysis as being fairly forgiving in his understanding... we'll see if davidk decides to respond himself.

[davidk]

Davidk is here because he desperately hopes he's right. If he 'knew' he was right he would not 'need' to be here. He also 'needs' love. Unfortunately his need for love is so desperate that he will manipulate others just to get them to respond to his posts thereby supplying his 'need' - however negatively such need may be met - it's called passive/resistence and canine trainers know it well. We all play these games to some extent but most of us, thankfully, learn and mature. But have a thought for Davidk - to let go of a well tried and supportive behaviour pattern takes no little courage. Look what happened to the man whose habit it was to wait beside the pool waiting for a miracle until Jesus cured him one Sabbot (Jn 5:1-18) - couldn't wait to dob him in to the Pharisees. There are those who'll kick even while being saved.

WOOF!

 

Are you 'secretly' trying to goad me into a response to this so you won't have to answer my questions? Very clever, inventing someones characteristics to discredit rather than answer their question. You should run for public office. I Shall repeat them.

From posts 109 & 114:

Where do we find a very 'Jesus" saying that would not be compromised by being in the Bible?

How many sayings can be contributed to "cut and paste" error? Which can't?

Who said 'God is contained in a book'; or, who implied they can hold God captive with 'sincere' words?

OK, I added that last one.

 

Your inventive diversion tactic isn't nearly as subtle as you think.

[October's Autumn]

nor is yours...

[Wayseer]

Actually, Davidk, I was not responding to you at all but to another poster. Again, you assume too much.

[davidk]

Actually, Davidk, I was not responding to you at all but to another poster. Again, you assume too much.

 

Yes, I know. That is why I prefaced my little tirade with 'secretly'. You also had assumed a great deal with your speculative characterizations. However, your shortest line was your most accurate; "He also 'needs' love."

Are you going to consider the questions I asked?

 

I wrote that last line anticipating Autumn's response, even though I was addressing you. It was pretty close, opinionated.

 

Anyway, that line was over the top and I should not have written it. My apologies.

 

Autumn:

I knew you wouldn't think I was subtle!

[davidk]

To answer the question: why am I here on this Debate and Dialogue board?

 

The question Is Following Christ Compatible With Christianity? was said in order to be somewhat controversial.

I was reading a lot of chatter about local church issues, Roman Catholic issues, gay issues, the media's coverage of Christianity, etc. It all got bottled up trying to define what Christianity was and there seemed to be no hard consensus of opinion.

Someone mentioned in a post that Christians told him he wasn't a Christian. Some experiences were swapped about. Some concluded it didn't matter what religion you had, all paths led to god.

Then, this post:

"...stating "I am a Christian" means I am a fundamentlist, intolerant, judgemental, often hateful, and not open to anything that doesn't fit my world view."

And then a suggestion; following Jesus as the Son of God was idolotry.

And the posts began to segregate Christians into 2 groups; the ' I am a loving, progressive, enlightened Christian' group and the ' I am a trollish, unloving, fundamentalist Christian.

 

Unfortunately, I know some jerks in each camp. They are judgemental when they should be loving, unforgiving instead of compassionate, and all the rest. If we are honest in the evaluation of ourselves... haven't we been jerks?

 

A few of the postees seemed to have particular issues and were stamping the name 'fundamentalist' around (which to me is unloving, highly judgemental and often misused) rather broadly.

 

On one particular post was written, "In my rural community stating that I am a Christian means I am a right wing, pro-life Republican, who hates everybody that doesn't share my political point of view, that I judge and condemn everyone that doesn't share the specific tenets of my faith,and that I don't want science taught in the school, etc."Well, I knew immediately that his community did not think of Christians this way, and it was what he thought the 'Christians' were.

 

I couldn't help myself. I posted a satirical message about what a progressive community he must live in with no fundamentalists (poking fun at progressives in a vein similar to his 'Christians'). Then, in all seriousness, I asked the question from 2 John 1:7 to help nail down the terms Christian, Christ, and Christianity that were being so elusive:

"Did Christ come as a man (in the flesh)? One's Christianity is determined by one's answer to this question...."

 

To my surprise, it wasn't my comment about his community that brought the first response, it was the question I asked about Jesus Christ. In retrospect, it was silly not to have made that prediction. And the post began with, "Being a Christian (Follower of the anointed one) has nothing to do with what one believes,..."

 

From then on, with the exception of one very highly qualified response, not a single person has been able to answer that question.

 

How sad, how very, very sad.