Jump to content

Guilt


JosephM
 Share

Recommended Posts

Below is a short writing of mine open for dialog concerning Guilt and its place in us. Feel free to comment or dialog. Your differing or supporting view is welcome and views expressed herein are for your consideration only.

JM

 

Guilt is an invisible pattern of the mind whether it is in the conscious mind, unconscious mind or both. It is present in most all sentient beings in degrees that range from very slight to extreme. Depending upon its intensity, guilt manifests itself in a wide range of destructive tendencies that include everything from depression, errors in choice, some level of abuse to the body, suicide and everything in between. Guilt causes unconscious selection of choices which lead to suffering as a payment for the guilt and in the worst case to self destruction. These manifestations are in a sense all self-inflicted by the choice of measuring or judging others. Understanding this helps to lift ones level of consciousness to a point that one can choose the positive over the negative to eliminate the cause of this phenomena.

 

To break free of this invisible pattern it is necessary to realize that which triggers and sustains this pattern within ourselves. If one realizes that we are all connected to one another and all of creation, then we will note that whatever we say, think or do to another, we are doing it to self.

 

As we go about our daily life, we are presented with an innumerable amount of choices. When someone is speaking to us we sometimes choose to analyze their motives or we choose to entertain preconceived opinions and thoughts that may or may not be accurate. Either way it is not applicable to this moment of now. We may be unconsciously measuring them in a way that creates separateness. In fact any thoughts we have about them that are not founded in unconditional love and peace is a form of measurement or judgment. We may be holding a thought either consciously or unconsciously that they have a problem or are wrong or incorrect in their way. In effect, by our belief, we have made a law by doing so in that we have pronounced judgment on self. If we now commit even a similar act, we are guilty ourselves; we have thus pronounced judgment on self creating unconscious guilt by our perceived belief. Our unconscious attachment to this guilt then attracts the accompanying patterns of manifestations of suffering and afflictions.

 

Most of us remain consciously unaware of the connection of events and resulting cycle of manifestations of this cycle of guilt that was brought on by our choice to judge or measure another. One must at all times choose unconditional forgiveness and love for all of creation including ourselves. How all this self inflicted suffering came about may be described differently by our choice of belief but the net effect is that it is self-inflicted and requires choosing the positive over the negative to break its cycle. Some call it karma and some sowing and reaping. All may have a slightly different perception or understanding of its workings. Either way, all thoughts and actions, whether one believes or not, creates patterns whether positive or negative. It is these patterns that manifest as degrees of pain and suffering or degrees of love and peace. Guilt is False and destructive and is not a necessary virtue to correct errors in judgments. Whereas, wisdom, understanding and increased awareness will suffice.

 

Love in Christ,

JM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As an after thought, I might add it is easy to mistake the actual 'effects' of guilt that are visible for guilt itself. Guilt itself is a silent and invisible entrainment created from all thoughts and actions in general that serve to fortify the illusion of separateness. The most predominant and easy to recognize being judging, condemning, measuring and holding onto un-forgiveness. Yet all vanities in a sense serve to promote guilt because they are naturally unfounded in truth. In some religions, one might use the word 'karma' to equate with this idea. Just a few more thoughts to contemplate concerning the subject.

 

Love in Christ,

JM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Joseph,

 

I find it interesting that on this thread you state that "holding onto un-forgiveness" is one of the most predominant and easy to recognize of all thoughts and actions that serve to fortify the illusion of separateness.

 

On the thread When Are We "saved"?, you vehemently defend your statement that "there is nothing for God to forgive. Sin is a product of the error in the belief that we are separate and in need of forgiveness. Forgiveness is then a concept that is only necessary as long as we perceive ourselves as separate."

 

So, if I follow your thinking, I'm to view forgiveness as unnecessary, but I'm also to view holding onto un-forgiveness as False? :blink:

 

Wow. This sounds like a lose-lose proposition.

 

Jen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Joseph,

 

I find it interesting that on this thread you state that "holding onto un-forgiveness" is one of the most predominant and easy to recognize of all thoughts and actions that serve to fortify the illusion of separateness.

 

On the thread When Are We "saved"?, you vehemently defend your statement that "there is nothing for God to forgive. Sin is a product of the error in the belief that we are separate and in need of forgiveness. Forgiveness is then a concept that is only necessary as long as we perceive ourselves as separate."

 

So, if I follow your thinking, I'm to view forgiveness as unnecessary, but I'm also to view holding onto un-forgiveness as False? :blink:

 

Wow. This sounds like a lose-lose proposition.

 

Jen

 

Hello Jen,

 

That is a most interesting observation you made and yes it does sound a bit like a conundrum yet it is not. Not holding on to un-forgiveness is a win proposition in my understanding. If one sees through the veil the spiritual truth that whatever one does to another one is in reality doing to one self, then one will surely not make a decision to even measure or judge in the first place. One will take no offense that makes forgiveness necessary. Jesus said judge not that ye be not judged. So if we do this God does not judge and in reality God does not judge at all. We pronounce judgment on ourselves by judgment and measuring other in a divinely balanced universe. As long as one views oneself as separate, forgiveness is necessary.

 

If one has experienced that we are all One in Christ and truly understands the inherent innocence of carnal nature /mind how can one then take offense with ones brother or sister. If no offense is taken then forgiveness is not necessary. How can one forgive something that is not there to forgive? So in that light, if one truly sees oneself as not separate and takes no offense, then forgiveness is unnecessary since no unforgiveness is held.

 

Hope that helps a little to clear up the issue. Of course, words are found limiting to communicate things that are experienced on a deeper level than the confines of words.

 

Happy Thanksgiving Jen and thanks for your well wishes of peace.

 

All my Love in Christ,

JM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with what has been said on guilt and forgiveness. Forgiveness is necessary in the lower layers of the mind because that is where negativity and guilt reside, but not in the higher layers where love and bliss party.

 

If we surrender the guilt, doubts and fears of the first two layers of the mind to the indwelling pure consciousness by forgiving, we release our guilt and limitations and permit the third layer to fulfill its purpose through us. The Christ consciousness in the third layer starts to recognize the pure consciousness in other minds, which is a happy unity where knowing pure consciousness is joy. This is how we learn to meet every situation in happiness and let God guide us into a greater experience of love and good. Surrendering the negativity in the first two layers of the mind opens it to the quiet influence of love and the calm certainty of peace in the third layer where we can do all things with complete assurance. Permitting the mind to love permits it to become filled with pure consciousness and for it to witness pure consciousness enveloping everything and everyone. This consciousness of love brings a sense of peace, joy and certainty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Give me ecstasy, give me naked wonder, O my Creator!

 

Give birth to the Beloved in me, and let this lover die.

 

Let a thousand wrangling desires become one Love. (1)

 

- Rumi

 

 

"I slept and dreamt that life was joy.

I awoke and found that

life was service.

I acted and, beheld,

service was joy."

- Tagore

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a most interesting observation you made and yes it does sound a bit like a conundrum yet it is not. Not holding on to un-forgiveness is a win proposition in my understanding. If one sees through the veil the spiritual truth that whatever one does to another one is in reality doing to one self, then one will surely not make a decision to even measure or judge in the first place. One will take no offense that makes forgiveness necessary. Jesus said judge not that ye be not judged. So if we do this God does not judge and in reality God does not judge at all. We pronounce judgment on ourselves by judgment and measuring other in a divinely balanced universe. As long as one views oneself as separate, forgiveness is necessary.

 

Joseph, I see the source of the great chasm between your understanding of forgiveness and mine. You've made it clear in your writings above that you believe judgment and discernment are one and the same thing. You believe that it is always wrong to have an opinion on the rightness or wrongness of another person's actions because to do so is to judge that other person.

 

God does not judge, just as you say. But God can tell the difference between acceptable thoughts and actions and unacceptable thoughts and actions. This is not judgment. This is fact. It is not a judgment to say that the planet Jupiter is bigger than the planet Mercury. It is also not a judgment to say that Hitler wasn't behaving like the angelic being he truly was/is. Hitler was way, way outside the zone of soul-based living. This is a fact. Because Hitler caused so much harm, God the Mother and God the Father forgave him. Forgiveness is an act of the heart which has absolutely nothing to do with judging someone. In fact, the more easily a person forgives, the more easily that person discerns the difference between right and wrong actions.

 

If you go to the store, and the clerk gives you too much change, and you gloat as you put it in your pocket, you've chosen wrongly, and God forgives you. If you cut off another driver on a busy road, then blame the other driver for being in your way, you've chosen wrongly, and God forgives you. If you go home and ignore your children, who desperately need your love and attention, you've chosen wrongly, and God forgives you. The reason these choices are wrong is because your conscious mind actually knows they're wrong, and doesn't care.

 

People make mistakes, and God knows this. But mistakes don't fall into the same category as intentional malice, as far as God is concerned. Intentional malice, which has made the world a difficult place, is a human choice which God and God's angels do not support. Angels have free will, you see, and they aren't obliged in any way to lend credence or credibility to those who refuse to listen the wisdom of their own glorious souls.

 

Amen.

Love Jesus

November 26, 2006

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joseph, I see the source of the great chasm between your understanding of forgiveness and mine. You've made it clear in your writings above that you believe judgment and discernment are one and the same thing. You believe that it is always wrong to have an opinion on the rightness or wrongness of another person's actions because to do so is to judge that other person.

 

God does not judge, just as you say. But God can tell the difference between acceptable thoughts and actions and unacceptable thoughts and actions. This is not judgment. This is fact. It is not a judgment to say that the planet Jupiter is bigger than the planet Mercury. It is also not a judgment to say that Hitler wasn't behaving like the angelic being he truly was/is. Hitler was way, way outside the zone of soul-based living. This is a fact. Because Hitler caused so much harm, God the Mother and God the Father forgave him. Forgiveness is an act of the heart which has absolutely nothing to do with judging someone. In fact, the more easily a person forgives, the more easily that person discerns the difference between right and wrong actions.

 

If you go to the store, and the clerk gives you too much change, and you gloat as you put it in your pocket, you've chosen wrongly, and God forgives you. If you cut off another driver on a busy road, then blame the other driver for being in your way, you've chosen wrongly, and God forgives you. If you go home and ignore your children, who desperately need your love and attention, you've chosen wrongly, and God forgives you. The reason these choices are wrong is because your conscious mind actually knows they're wrong, and doesn't care.

 

People make mistakes, and God knows this. But mistakes don't fall into the same category as intentional malice, as far as God is concerned. Intentional malice, which has made the world a difficult place, is a human choice which God and God's angels do not support. Angels have free will, you see, and they aren't obliged in any way to lend credence or credibility to those who refuse to listen the wisdom of their own glorious souls.

 

Amen.

Love Jesus

November 26, 2006

 

Thanks for your reply Jen,

 

Actually I look more at discernment as insight rather than the same meaning as judgment. Therefore I do not view them as one and the same. It may indeed be interpreted that way from my writings but it is not so in my understanding. Judgment to me is more the forming of an opinion from mental consideration or deliberation. I do not see them as the same thing. In fact to me there is a very important difference. Discernment does not require mentations or for me to form an opinion as mine. In my view, all opinions are vanity and for the most part fallacious. I have insufficient and unreliable mental data to judge another. Therefore, I feel no need to judge Hitler or any other human being for that matter. To me it is not necessary or relevant to my journey.

 

Discernment on the other hand is an integral part of wisdom. Still even discernment does not require me to place labels on actions or people such as 'right' or 'wrong' and 'good' or 'bad'/'evil' which to me are perception labels placed by having a limited point of view in the matter. God has shown me that awareness and discernment and wisdom which has been given me is sufficient to direct my actions without the use of labels which have reality only in the minds of the one making such a distinction and any who may be in agreement. Labels change with society, times and depend on whose perspective one is looking from. IE: Many in the United states at one time looked at it as a 'good' thing to displace the Indians and expand our frontier, the Indians on the other hand would find no agreement with any such thing being 'good'. Irregardless, personally I have no present use for labels of such things. Thing are what they are and there seems no more to be said by me.

 

My sincere thanks for your presentation of your thoughts. I have read your post carefully over twice and if I substitute the words 'not chosen wisely' instead of 'chosen wrongly' for many of your statements with a presumed goal of being supportive of life and unity then I find we are much in agreement. As far as things being 'fact', I am of the persuation that I know little of 'fact' in these matters.

 

Please take not the slightest offense in my words as they are only my current understanding and in no way are meant to discredit yours. May God richly bless each of us with increased awareness and understanding of truth.

 

Love in Christ,

JM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear friend,

 

Thank you for your thoughts. You've said above that "labels change with society, times and depend on whose perspective one is looking from." This is true in part. Communities and even civilizations have been ripped apart in the past because too many individuals have resorted to using labels, which can be a particulary lazy form of thinking. On the other hand, from the point of view of God the Mother, God the Father, and the family of angels who surround you, some observations about other beings don't fall under the category of labels (the label of labels?), but instead fall under the category of Fact. Divine Fact.

 

One of the hardest parts of the human journey is the struggle to differentiate between lazy labels and divine fact. Where do the labels end, and where does the truth begin? Is it ever right for a group of people to call themselves Chosen, then give themselves permission to take what they want from others because they're Chosen? Is it ever right for a group of people to call themselves saved because they've accepted a particular label? Do labels ever save? When is a label not a mere label, but the beginning of Truth? Can a human being understand the line between the two? Can a human being understand Truth in the same way that God understands Truth?

 

Yes. It can be done. That is the Way.

 

My suggestion to you, Joseph, is that you remember to keep asking God whether or not it's time for you to return to the question of labels, whether it's time for you to look at those labels from a newer and wiser perspective. Don't burn the bridge that leads to labels, as one or two of those labels may turn out to be Divine Truth in disguise.

 

Been there, done that, and am wishing you the best on your journey.

 

Love Jesus

November 29, 2006

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear friend,

 

Thank you for your thoughts. You've said above that "labels change with society, times and depend on whose perspective one is looking from." This is true in part. Communities and even civilizations have been ripped apart in the past because too many individuals have resorted to using labels, which can be a particulary lazy form of thinking. On the other hand, from the point of view of God the Mother, God the Father, and the family of angels who surround you, some observations about other beings don't fall under the category of labels (the label of labels?), but instead fall under the category of Fact. Divine Fact.

 

One of the hardest parts of the human journey is the struggle to differentiate between lazy labels and divine fact. Where do the labels end, and where does the truth begin? Is it ever right for a group of people to call themselves Chosen, then give themselves permission to take what they want from others because they're Chosen? Is it ever right for a group of people to call themselves saved because they've accepted a particular label? Do labels ever save? When is a label not a mere label, but the beginning of Truth? Can a human being understand the line between the two? Can a human being understand Truth in the same way that God understands Truth?

 

Yes. It can be done. That is the Way.

 

My suggestion to you, Joseph, is that you remember to keep asking God whether or not it's time for you to return to the question of labels, whether it's time for you to look at those labels from a newer and wiser perspective. Don't burn the bridge that leads to labels, as one or two of those labels may turn out to be Divine Truth in disguise.

 

Been there, done that, and am wishing you the best on your journey.

 

Love Jesus

November 29, 2006

 

Greeting Jen,

 

Thank you so much for your best wishes on my journey.

 

I have considered your advise concerning labels however, upon examination it appears that at the present time I find this mind incapable of arriving at fact in these matters. This seems to be due to this mind's inadequacy in that it lacks a sufficient amount of reliable data/context to be able to come to an accurate assessment. Therefore I will defer that to God. It also seems that when I do surrender my flawed beliefs to Him, I arrive at a state of bliss and joy where even the question that I thought I had disappears and I see no 'other' that could make applying a label even possible.

 

Perhaps, As you say, God will have me return to labels from a newer and wiser perspective. Surely God is able to do this if it is his desire for me and who am I to forbid such a thing. So I will leave it in God's hands and burn no bridges. Thanks again for your concern and know I also wish you the very best on your journey.

 

Love in Christ,

JM

Edited by JosephM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps, As you say, God will have me return to labels from a newer and wiser perspective. Surely God is able to do this if it is his desire for me and who am I to forbid such a thing. So I will leave it in God's hands and burn no bridges.

 

Yes, Joseph, and this is the beginning of your wisdom. Remembers always, though, that when it's time for you to return to these issues, God will need your help. God will give you hints, messages, and inner promptings. But God will need you to complete the circle, to act on the divine guidance you receive. This is the glorious gift of free will used in divine service.

 

Amen. Love Jesus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Guilt and Jealousy

 

Two sisters' or brothers' of the same deadly family

 

I was writing about the issues involved in another hot topic and here again we get to discuss the root cause of the problem. We see how we are guilted into believing that some people are thinking the've been discriminated against because of their jealous demands upon our culture and society. If we give them equality they will claim that it is not because of semantic differences.

 

I agree that guilt can be a deadly force and we need to move past and beyond being guilted into action, and hold fast to the sure belief in GOD and creation.

 

Forgiveness is a condition that requires the offender to ask to be forgiven. We are to ask GOD to forgive us as we have asked for forgiveness from those of whom we have offended or committed sins against.

 

Grace is GOD's gift given when we ask for forgiveness. When we ask or when we are asked to be forgiven, we are to forgive as GOD has forgiven us or as we expect GOD to forgive us.

 

How much does reparation fit into this picture, for a person that is truly asking for forgiveness will also offer to make right the wrong that was committed.

 

How simple is all of this?

 

It starts with telling the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

terms of service