Joshua Nunn

There are some things in the NT that can lead one to belive that Jesus was "God Himself." For example, in John 20:28, Jesus did not corrected Thomas for calling Jesus “my Lord and my God.” And Jesus did say things like, "I am in the father and the father is in me," expressing the fact that he realized he was one with God. However, those things have been misunderstood. Long before Jesus was born the prophet Isaiah, expressing the "voice" of God's word, wrote: “He is my witness and my servant whom I have chosen, so you may know and believe me, and understand that I am the Holy One. Before me there was no God formed, and neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord God, and beside me there is no Savior.” – Isaiah 43:10-11 Jesus knew and understood that, because the OT says as much many times. That is why Jesus made it clear that he was a servant of God, and that’s why he indicated that people should not worship him, but only God. That’s why he said things like, "They worship me in vain," and “Why call me good? There is but one who is good, and that is God.” (Matthew 19:17) And this truth is expressed in other ways, such as in John 14:28 and Acts 2:22. Jesus knew the truth, but he didn't write it down. Others did, and they were interested in building a new religion. They wanted to elevate the status of the Christ, and thereby elevate the status of Christianity. And whether the doctrine of preeminence was actually created by the original authors of the gospels, or whether it was created in the 4th Century when Christianity became the religion of a military empire, it is not true Christian doctrine. God alone is the Holy One, the Lord God, the Lord of Hosts. And Jesus was a host, as many other human beings have been. But he was special. He was a Christ, a spiritually anointed son of man. And that is what all Christians must realize if we are to have peace and harmony in the world, and mutual respect among religions.

I would disagree with the claim that "without the idea of resurrection Christianity makes little sense." As I see it, the core teachings of Jesus are around peace, love, charity, compassion, tolerance, forgiveness, and pacifism. After all, Jesus taught that we should love one another, even the least of our brethren and even our enemies. He taught that we should judge not; resist not evil if we are tempted to judge; overcome evil with good; turn the other cheek; and live not by the sword. That makes a lot of sense to me, and it's compatible with the teachings of the Buddha and all other enlightened spiritual teachers. We can, I think, look at the resurrection of Jesus as somewhat similar to what happens to the soul of all human beings who seek to return to God. At the same time, we can realize that as the spiritually anointed Christ who realized he was "one" with God, his resurrection was unique and special. I believe there is a way to look at the life and death of Jesus in a realistic way that sees him as what he was ... a son of man. And I believe we can view the "miracles" as myths that were created to elevate the status of the Christ and especially the status of Christianity to make it the only "true" religion founded by "God Himself." Jesus should be glorified, but for what he really was, and not an idol for worship. God alone should be worshipped, as Jesus himself said.

I too would recommend the book, Meeting Jesus Again For the First Time, by Marcus Borg. I would also recommend other Borg works, especially The Meaning of Jesus, as well as Jesus and Buddha: The Parallel Sayings. It is extremely important now that we understand the true message of the Christ, which is NOT what is being spread by leaders of the so-called "Christian" Right. For example, Pat Robertson, the host of the 700 Club and founder of the so-called Christian Coalition, has said: “You say you’re supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and the Unitarians and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don’t have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions, but I don’t have to be nice to them.” The problem is that real Christians, like real Buddhists and other true servants of God, tend to be humble and meek. They are too polite to criticize bigots and hypocrites. But we must stand up for the truth. It's very important, especially since right-wing zealots who claim to serve God are being so aggressive and even violent and deadly. They call themselve the "true Christians" or "true Muslims" or "true Jews" or whatever. But they betray their religion and they betray God. Those of us who understand what's going on must speak up.

MzMolly, Brother Roger is right, the work of Barbara Rossing and Wes Howard Brook are helpful in understanding the “end times” are NOT here. But I’ve found that the work of Joseph J. Adamson in his book Real Prophecy Unveiled explains not only why the world will not end, but a lot more. For example, he explains why and how the humble and meek shall indeed inherit the earth and establish the new “kingdom” of God, which “shall last forever, never to be destroyed.” (Daniel 2:44, Revelations 11:15, etc.) There is a lot of good news available. The trouble is, the proud and militant talk and shout the loudest. But in due time the Spirit of truth will expose their bigotry and hypocrisy, and enable the humble and meek to inherit the earth. That’s what the fulfillment of real prophecy is all about.

Progressive Christians might be very interested in a discussion about this subject on another forum: http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_li...ussionID=333455 It goes into the "virgin birth," the purpose of Jesus' martyrdom, etc. It's a very timely debate about what the true, core doctrine of Christianity really is.

There is a Christian answer to the bigotry and hypocrisy of the so-called "Christian" Right. http://realprophecyunveiled.netfirms.com

I think Gibson was well-meaning, but a big problem with his movie and book is that he presents misguided interpretation, speculation and opinion as truth. But a MUCH bigger problem is that it's based on the doctrine and dogma of the Nicene Creed, fabricated in the 4th Century to elevate the status of the Christ and Christianity for the then-new "Holy Roman Empire." And, by the way, that doctrine was used to justify many centuries of theocratic imperialism, oppression and cruelty we now call the Dark Ages. The biggest problem is that the same doctrine is used now to justify the bigotry of the Religious Right, which claims that "only by accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior can you receive salvation," because "Jesus died for the sins of humanity." Even worse, the Religious Right uses it to claim that everyone must agree and march in lock step with them or else be damned to eternal hell. And by making this movie and book Mel Gibson has now aligned himself with the Religious Right. The thing is, it's really a question of why Jesus did what he did, and it WAS NOT to justify religious bigots and hypocrites who claim only they know The Way and anyone who disagrees is in league with Satan. And it WAS NOT to create a religion for imperialists who seek worldly wealth and power and live by the sword (gun and bomb). The real truth is that Jesus allowed himself to be arrested knowing he would face death to show us a perfect example of the loving and forgiving pacifist and martyr, who would rather judge not, resist not evil, love his enemies, and turn the other cheek. THAT is real Christian doctrine. In contrast with that, the doctrine about Jesus "dying for our sins" and being "the only source of salvation" makes little sense, if you really think about it. After all, our sins are certainly our own, and we certainly live with the consequences of our sins. And our salvation is in asking for forgiveness from God, and achieving the feeling of being forgiven by God. Granted, most Christians hold the Nicene Creed as true to the gospels. But it now raises many questions: Are the gospels as we now know them true to the actual teachings of Jesus? Were they embellished and redesigned by the writers of the gospels when the oral tradition was finally written down between 40 and 70 years after Jesus died? Were certain things added to the gospels in the 4th Century to justify and suit the purposes of the "Christian" emperor Constantine who lived by the sword and ruled the then-new "Holy Roman Empire?" Is it not in fact a man-made doctrine designed to justify the building of a theocratic empire that holds all other religions as false? I believe in the Golden Rule of Jesus, which is the true core principle of Christianity. I do not believe he ever said or implied in any way that "unless you believe in me you will suffer eternal damnation in hell." I think that is the doctrine of hypocritical men that Jesus warned us about. And the idea that only by professing belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior can you receive salvation is a big part of that false doctrine. I learned that from the messenger for the Spirit of truth that Jesus said would come, in the message entitled Real Prophecy Unveiled, and in my heart I know it is true.

I’m not sure who your comments were directed toward, but I agree that we should not judge. Jesus advised that we should judge not, lest we be judged in turn. However, Jesus said it is left to the son of man to judge humanity. But he was not talking about himself, because he said he had not come to judge the world. (John 12:47) Jesus was talking about the next son of man, the witness and servant of God who Isaiah said shall bring judgment. (Isaiah 42:1-2) That is why Jesus said even though he had “many things more to say, humanity was not yet ready to hear them.” He said he “must go away” and there would be one to come at the end of the age who would “guide you unto all truth, issue judgment, show us things to come, glorify him (Jesus), and bear his testimony.” (John 16:7-15, Revelation 19:10) And Jesus further confirmed that when he said that even though he will not judge, his “words” and testimony ultimately will. (John 12:47-48) In other words, the current son of man, the messenger for the Spirit of truth who bears the testimony of Jesus and more, DOES issue judgement. And it is sorely needed right now, to deal with all the conflict and division.

Yes, Spong's writings are interesting too, like Borg's. And Spong, like Adamson, advocates a new reformation as well. However, Adamson's Real Prophecy Unveiled series is more comprehensive and wide-reaching. And it actually deals with why and how the humble and meek shall indeed inherit the earth. In fact, it explains how and why the new "kingdom" of God will be established on earth, which will "last forever, never to be destroyed." (Daniel 2:44, Revelation 11:15, Psalm 104:5, etc.) It's about real prophecy that will actually be fulfilled. It explains how allegorical and symbolic scriptural language, which was never meant to be taken literally, has been misinterpreted and misunderstood. And it explains how the time frame and meaning of other prophecies has also been misinterpreted and misunderstood to fabricate a false prophecy about the "end times" and "last days." Visit http://realprophecyunveiled.netfirms.com

You would probably be interested in the writings of the scholars on the Jesus Seminar, particularly Marcus Borg. I would also recommend the book Real Prophecy Unveiled: Why the Christ Will Not Come Again, And Why the Religious Right Is Wrong, by Joseph J. Adamson. It explains why the "virgin birth" story is actually a myth. And yet it glorifies Jesus for what he was, the Christ-Avatar for the passing age.