JosephM

Yes, The conundrum to me is that if there is no self and Nhat Hahn says "people think that their body belongs to them and they can do anything they want to it" then WHO IS IT that is thinking that and doing whatever they want to it ?

Burl, Here is a good article on PC and ritual from our main Progressive Christianity .org site. I don't think it is a fair statement that PC would have us discard ritual. While we are a community of welcome without the bonds of having to accept the formal dogma and doctrines of man disguised as the church system, holy books, laws or rituals, we do not reject or discard rituals Joseph

Burl, I think Soma's comments (theology) is related to what TNH wrote. This is not a book study forum .... it is a book discussion forum. In discussion , it seems to me we do not have to agree with what we read and it seems to me good to discuss, agree or disagree or amplify on any concepts mentioned in the book and offer our take on it. Essentially book discussions give readers a voice . Joseph

No I don't produce the newsletter. Its done by our main organization at www.ProgressiveChristianity.org .Thanks for your kind comments.

It's a Westar Institute event associated with Progressive Christianity and there will be Progressive Christians attending but none of our main organization leaders will be speaking. As does PC it invites all who are interested in scholarship about religion and religious literacy to attend. Click on the link to read more about the event.

Westar's Fall 2016 National Meeting‏ Largest Religious Study Event of the Year

Moved topic to debate and dialog after permission granted in post 12 by original poster spiritseeker20 JosephM (as Moderator)

No , not necessarily. I take the 1st option and it is not exclusive to Jesus as he followed that with he is in the Father and the Father is in him and furthermore he prayed that we would also be one with the Father even as he was. Elsewhere in John it reads the the logos is the true light and lights every man that comes into the world. God and the Light is in and through all things therefore , in my view, God is not exclusive to Jesus.

This weeks weekly Recap at Progressive Christianity.org

Hi Sherrie, Thanks for the introduction and welcome to a forum of similar-minded people. I can relate to your introduction and share your concerns. May we all be of useful service to our fellow humans and more. Joseph

Personally i don't think it was meant to be complicated. It seems to me, Jesus did not feel the need to write anything himself other than to scribble in the sand once. It is my experience that we become aware of the connection with God not by complicated understandings of Bible writings but more by the simplicity that is in Christ and the basic teachings of Jesus that when put in practice bring about transformation. Joseph

Hi spiritseeker20, I assume you are using this definition of miracle ... a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency. Whether the miracles recorded in the Bible happened or not, i cannot say. How can anyone say merely from reading someone else's story whether it is fact or fiction? Personally, i find no need to believe nor disbelieve miracles as recorded in the Bible though i find many recorded extremely doubtful to my reasoning mind. Also, I don't find the Bible as the Word of God as is accepted by many fundamental Christians so i give it no more authority than any other religious text. Having said all that, i for one have experienced a number of welcome events that at least at the time were not to me explicable by natural or scientific laws and so for at least the time being are classified by me as miracles. Perhaps they could be explained by science if not now at some future time. However, it doesn't really matter to me because existence itself to me is a miracle. Life is a miracle as are all the manifestations i see that are created from things i cannot see and i attribute them to divine agency , howbeit not necessarily with the same understanding as is common in Christian circles. Since you posted this in the PC forum, only those who self identify as PC will be allowed to respond. If you want a broader response let me know and i will move it to debate and dialog. Joseph

Perhaps you will enlighten us on this matter. What do you feel is lacking in general concerning scripture and Jesus here?

Lucas, Welcome to the forum and thanks for the introduction. Looking forward to a mutually beneficial relationship with you on this forum. Cheers to Ireland. Again welcome, Joseph

Lex, Fair enough. To introduce yourself from the main screen click on the "Introduce Yourself" forum and then Start New Topic box on the right side of the screen that comes up. The rest hopefully should be self evident. Joseph

Lex, The aim of Progressive Christianity is not to connect a person with a pre-defined destination but only to encourage one on his/her journey for truth. There may indeed come a point where the label Christianity loses its importance to one on a journey but i think it is more important to NOT initiate a "modern belief system" lest we again create another religion that detracts from the purpose of PC which stated on our main site is ... Progressive Christianity is an open, intelligent, and collaborative approach to the Christian tradition and the life and teachings of Jesus that creates a pathway into an authentic and relevant religious experience. In my view, there is a distinct difference to an approach versus a "belief system" and a religious experience versus a defined destination. Also, in PC it is recognized that PC is a journey and is not the only acceptable approach. In my view, PC is not trying to grow a religion or belief system although it may become such a goal to some. What Bishop Spong and many others are doing i find commendable, and who is to say whether his aim or any other is to low or best? After all, we are all just IC expressing itself. Are we not? Joseph

Hi Lex, I see you got logged on ok. I like your way of expressing what might be unfathomable to many. Joseph

This Weeks PC Weekly Recap

It is for humans. Try and get everyone to agree on hot or cold, right and wrong or good and evil. After all we are talking about original sin for humans..... Not God

Curious Atheist, (Your real first name would be preferable to me ) Personally i feel that unless a teaching comes alive for me, it would be unwise for me to just blindly accept it. The NT says to PROVE ALL THINGS. That speaks to me For me, i had a problem with having a relationship or connection with my source, substrate of existence or God. When i read a reported teaching of Jesus that said " as you forgive others it is forgiven you " I decided or choose, for whatever reason, to make that a practice. And i found that when i did, guilt no longer had a hold of my mind. I essentially experienced a freedom that i up to that point had never consciously experienced before. Science or psychology could possibly explain why, but it doesn't matter. Experience has shown me the benefits of such a choice. Many of the other writings also ring true to me but that does not mean everything i read of the recorded teachings of Jesus are true or false. It doesn't even matter whether Jesus really said them or not but i have no need to believe or disbelief he did. The teachings , in my view are more important than the man less i follow after idols. As Rom said, even the Buddha is recorded saying something similar from the Kalama Sutta Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them. I think the Buudha , if he really said that was also wise. Where did this wisdom come from? He didn't say. As for a different name other than Progressive Christianity. It is my hope you might get past such a delema. Here is a link by many other PC's here that might give you a more broad and better feel for what it means to them. Probably in more satisfactory definitive terms than what i have said. Joseph

I have found it true that as we measure others.... We are measured. As we judge others.... We are judged . All present tense and to me Poetic justice. To walk perfect before God or whatever word one wishes to call it to me is to walk without judgement or measure of the heart of another. This doesn't exclude using wisdom in choice. Joseph

I would agree with Rom. If there is such a thing as "original sin ", it would be choosing to live in duality at the expense of the real unity of all life . Sin came with the law when we set arbitrary points of references on a continuum and named them good and evil, right and wrong, etc.

The early followers of Jesus were called Christians. Some of them never even met Jesus nor had such a thing as the Bible to read. Since most PC's here have found an approach to God through the recorded teachings of Jesus wether verbal or otherwise, they have as much right to the label as anyone. So while many here may feel like many of the recorded teachings ring true for them when placed in practice and they self identify as Christian they also have found similarities in the teachings of others that ring true to them and find no need to change the label they most identify with. I have no problem with that..... Do you? In fact I don't really find labels all that important nor a single word or short series of a few vowels and consonants to adequately define an individual or his/her belief system. Joseph

I believe that is a misunderstanding. Most but not all PC believe the Bible was written by men and therefore is a human creation which includes the OT and NT. The writings are found by most to be inspirational but no more divinely inspired than any other religious text.

This weeks Progressive Christianity organization ---> Weekly Recap