JosephM

This Weeks Progressivw Christianity.org Weekly Recap

What can we truly know? With know defined as "be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information" and factoring in the qualifier "truely" (to the fullest degree). Probably not much. Leave out the truly and one could say that which we observe or as a result of inquiry or available information. With the word truly i must be honest and claim ignorance. Joseph

I have no who for an authority but i am open to personal experience, reason and results .I give more emphasis on personal experience with results than reason alone however they all influence each other. Joseph

Burl said... Burl, From the main site, written by me and approved by leadership. you are here: / message-boards / Message Boards 5 ProgressiveChristianity.org discussion board is an internet support community of individuals, mostly consisting of but not limited to those that embraces pluralism and the eight points of Progressive Christianity. An internet place of reaching out and encouragement to those for whom organized religion has proved ineffectual, irrelevant, or repressive, as well as to those who have given up on or are unacquainted with it. A safe place of discussion and sharing of ones views and thoughts concerning the journey or quest for truth and spiritual discovery. A place of challenging discussions where participants come to both share and learn. A community that gets away from systematized, exclusive absolutes, and where intellectual honesty is much more likely to be valued. The discussion board welcomes all to participate, including but not limited to Conventional Christians and questioning skeptics, believers and agnostics, women and men, those of all sexual orientations and gender identities and those of all classes and abilities. Because of such a diversity of people and views, the discussion board is divided into individual forum each with its own guidelines and is strictly moderated without censorship or restriction of views yet with the requirement of mutual respect for others of differring views. A place where respect for the other and verbal behavior in discussions is more important than any view expressed. It’s a community of welcome without the bonds of having to accept the formal dogma and doctrines of man disguised as the church system, holy books, laws or rituals. ===================================================================== I as Paul, see no real disconnect in our purpose here as defined above. I have served the membership along with other volunteers since 2009 in an effort to keep things from getting out of hand which is sometimes difficult because of the nature of people and religious discussions. I provide monthly reports to leadership who from time to time look in and are free to comment and question our policies. Lectionaries are acceptable here but participation is voluntary and in the hands of members. If they are not interested in this type of thread, it will die for lack of interest.. JosephM (as Admin) PS I try to remember to give everyone a positive reputation point for starting a thread regardless of any personal feelings on its interest to me.

Burl, Sometimes i wonder where you get your data for your statements . From January 1, 2012 to July 20 2016 (you became a member July 21, 2016) we had 13,141 posts over a 55 month perioid or an app average of 238 posts per month. Since you joined we have averaged 223 posts per month. While you have livened up conversations a bit our numbers for your 3 months are lower so i guess you could still call us moribund with your presence by your interpretation of the numbers. Joseph

Burl, Personally, having had numerous unexplainable experiences myself during this lifetime, i take your "approach and simply appreciate that we do not presently have a logical framework to fit these experiences into." At the same time i would certainly not suggest that those who have not are feigning ignorance or find any fault in those for dismissing such because of lack of either personal experience or scientific evidence. There is an adage imprinted in my psyche from a friend that says "you will never know that it is true til it happens to you". How can one expect another to change their belief simply based on the subjective experience of another especially on such matters as this one? Joseph

Thanks for the intro Thormas and welcome again.. Also raised Catholic here. Not so well read myself as it has never been as passion of mine. However, i am looking forward to reading more of your personal experiences and sharing of your knowledge of life and your theology study. May your experience here be of mutual benefit to all. Joseph

Burl, Your post #10 and #12 have received negative reputation from your peers here not because of your views but because you seem to me to be making it an attack on a person rather than debating the view. ( personal attack ) This is unacceptable on this site. Please be more careful. Ref: guidlines HERE JosephM (as Moderator)

Hi Thomas, May we all find our true Self. Welcome to the forum and thanks for your participation in this thread. Glad to see you got registration straightened out. Perhaps, when you get a chance, you might take the time for a small intoduction in the water cooler forum so others can learn a bit about your religious background or whatever you are willing to share with us.. Joseph

To me, even claims that standards concerning God from past centuries cannot be held to 21C standards falls short of the reported NT writing that equate Jesus with God and then state "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Heb 13:8 or even James 1:17 " Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness neither shadow of turning." What little reasoning power that has been given me can only, at least for the present, attribute these horrific concepts Bill mentions to the minds of men. Propagated verbally and by written letters by those of authority and presently believed by men by a concept that i call blind faith in a book portrayed and believed to be "the Word of God". This to me, is one of the greatest false premises levied upon mankind and upon which many other false premises are built and sustained. This is my own personal shared view (opinion) and not meant to say that it is a more or less valid opinion than those who may choose to believe differently. Joseph (as member)

This Weeks PC Weekly Recap

Burl, I would beg to differ on what it seems to me is your opinion of scripture as relates to progressive Christianity. PC, at least on this site, has no such requirement that one accept all the writings or reported teachings in the NT as either original, accurate, or the Word of God. Not even the 8 points of PC are set in stone and have in fact been modified with time. My tie to Christianity is in that i found an approach to God through some of the reported teachings of Jesus. Whether Jesus really existed or not (though my view is that he did) or that he said all the things that are attributed to him (though my view is that he probably did not) is of little importance to me. What is important to me is the reported teachings that have contributed to a profound and positive transformation in my life and a connection to the source of all being. Personally i try to nether accept nor discard the writings attributed to Jesus on face value. Rather i find that some of the reported teachings speak to me in a testing or a practical application in my life. Those i allow to integrate into and grow in my life. The others that neither speak to my reasoning, intellect or for the most part , my personal experiences , i merely allow them to be. Perhaps they may someday speak to me, perhaps not. The same can be said of me of the teachings in other books. Joseph PS i don't know if Jesus was inclusive or not as some of the writings can be interpreted to suggest yes and others no . Basically i can't speak for Jesus but i have found being inclusive to have many positive benefits.

Non-self versus loving self, What Jesus really said or didn't say i do not know. But this i have seen. That which we may call i/self came from the Divine / One and is accepted / loved as it is in this moment of time. Hate is not a possibility when one realizes this connection except as long as the self seems to exist as separate. Self is in the process of returning to that which is sustaining it and whether it is 70 years, 700 years , 7000 years or 700,00 years or more in time i cannot say. But to me, self is temporal in that it is created and sustained by the One and is ever changing so that it is not the same as it was in time past. However, neither can i see self separate from the One / I. This is the paradox or conundrum of creation. None of this is provable in self terms but this i can say with a subtle experience of self certainty ... there was a time when i never existed but there was never a time when I was not. Just musing, Joseph

This Weeks PC Weekly Recap ---> http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b51b9cf441b059bb232418480&id=ffd0f9ba72&e=4818d6a086

I think the following versus attributed to Jesus in the Gospels in some sense speak to the diminishing of self. I personally don't feel that we are to hate self or that self ( being the carnal mind that minds the things of the flesh more than the connectiveness that we can experience). But rather that when we count the things more important that are less identified with that self or as Paul put it, die to self daily, we enter a realm where our own selfish wants are diminished and we act out of a Spirit/energy/? that takes into account more than our self which is to perish anyway with the using. Wish i had better words but perhaps one can get the gist of what i am trying to say. Luke 9:23 , John 12:24 , John 15:1-27 , John 12:25 , Luke 17:33 , Matthew 18:1-35 , John 3:30 , Matthew 6:1-34 , John 3:1-36 Perhaps SOME of the reported writings of Paul might do a better job when it comes to this concept but there are parts of what he says that i think are changed to reflect the wishes of the church at the time. Yet the concept is still there. Romans 8:13 , 2 Corinthians 4:16 , Philippians 1:21 , Romans 12:1 , 2 Corinthians 5:17 , Colossians 3:3 , Galatians 2:20 Joseph

Ditto here Bill, As far as missing the fellowship for me at least, I have gotten past that point and found others with similar or acceptable different views in my personal life that don't grieve my spirit as they don't seem to feel a need to convert or force their views on others. If church was more sharing by a greater number of participants than being preached at by one, it would seem to me to be a lot easier pill to swallow. Lol Joseph

Burl, Thanks for those kind words.

Teacher

While there are many who see the KoG in the light you have described and historically may make sense, i think the message relevant for the modern world and even originally does have a more spiritual meaning that is not always grasped without a study of the language in which the Gospels were written. And even then it is often difficult to understand without direct experience . Rather than getting into a long write i will reference a post i did in August 31 of 2007 with my understanding and own personall experience of what i feel the gospels writer(s) meant when talking of the KoG. Joseph

Bill, Personally i think there are more than 3 choices. Of many, another could be perhaps God is in control in the sense that God is the only One and the substrate of all existence and experience in and beyond what we know as form. Perhaps we, as many separate entities are a temporal illusion. Perhaps suffering is not what it appears to that to which we identify with? Perhaps nothing is really gained or lost in what we consider this temporal episode of life? In addition to your 3 choices and another i mentioned, there are many other possibilities or concepts or explanations people can choose as a belief system. Yet this to me is now obvious.... Life as JosephM is temporal, as is all of form. Life itself which gives this appearance of JosephM is beyond form and yet includes form. The only separation from God and for that matter anyone else is and has been in a mind that identifies itself as JosephM rather than identification with the very source of that life. Good to see you back, Peace, Joseph PS . I think a quote SteveS55 posted of Thomas Merton (an American Catholic author) HERE might also be considered.

This weeks PC Weekly Recap

Welcome teotym, I am certain you will find similarly minded individuals here. Your experience and conclusions doesn't sound much different than others here. Thanks for the introduction . Joseph

This Weeks ProgressiveChristianity.org Weekly Recap

This Weeks Progressive Christianity Weekly Recap

This Weeks Progressive Christianity Weekly Recap