JosephM

11 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

I keep thinking about this picture and this issue. I'm descended from some Civil War Veterans from the North. I keep thinking that I would be offended and insulted by this statue. It's like, what did all these people fight and die for, just to have some weird thing like this erected and stand there for everyone to have to look at.

Why is their a need to look at it if it offends one? To me , it is history and i might enjoy the artistry and study the history. If i am offended at a topless beach, why would i go there? Should it be banned or closed? I think not. People are different and in my view need to learn to suffer others with differing beliefs.

11 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

Thing is, if the US had become two separate countries, what would have happened during WWII? Could the Nazis have taken over the entire world  ?  and then where would we be?

That is a hypothetical with no existence in reality. We are one country. But just to play along say we were 2 countries, who can say for sure? So why wonder? Countries join together when their is a mutual interest.

11 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

That being said, I've met people who are descended from southern, white, plantation holders that are the nicest, fair minded people that you'd ever want to meet. I've also met a good number of closet Yankees from the south, who just say they don't feel comfortable being that open about it down south.

I was born in a Yankee state (PA) lived in a southern state and felt no such uncomfortableness. That is not to say that there aren't those who may feel that way but that is their problem to work out. There are choices they can make to move or change their thinking. There are things that can make one uncomfortasble no matter where they live because of the great diversity of people here. 

11 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

I don't know if this makes sense or not, but if people in the south, or anywhere, are genuinely feeling overwhelmed and "threatened" by other groups of people, there are much more sensible ways of dealing with it than calling out the kkk or building statues to past defenders of slavery. For one thing they can sit down and talk about it and discuss what the future might look like so everyone can have a decent and secure future. 

I think we can agree on sitting down and talking about it. I don't think these statues are recent builds. Most have been there for some time. The one in the picture was built in 1924 almost 100 years ago.

11 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

Perhaps if there were programs, where people could come to this country, or other countries, for a while, and gain some skills, save some currency, and get some ideas, and then return to their homelands with ideas and skills and ways of improving things, so people don’t have to keep leaving their homelands just to eat or be safe. People could do this in groups, even with well thought out plans and ideas for the future.

There are those programs existing already. Alot of it is subsidized by the US government programs. It is illegal immigration that is the problem . If one wants to help others in other countries you can always adopt a family or individual and support them through charity contributions through organizations, global food banks ,  etc. etc. I have been doing such for about 30 years now. It's not the job or original design of our government, it the job of individuals that have a mind to do so without offence to those who might think differently. In my view to take from all and give to others is an individual decision not to be forced upon people for a cheerful giver has the reward of love. It is not so with one who has to give of necessity.

Tax money is not governments to give .... Why?        Read this story of Davy Crockett in the House of Representatives.                 https://fee.org/resources/not-your-to-give/

Just some of my thoughts, Joseph

11 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

I've got to say that I think that good leadership counts here. It's all well and good if individuals decide they want to wear masks and go along with the CDC's guidelines. Even if ALL individuals think about it and think they want to do it. If government and leadership doesn't get everyone on the same page, it's not going to work and it's not going to happen. Why would individuals go and wear a mask if everybody, or most of everybody, isn't going to do it? It just wouldn't make sense.

The U.S. Constitution uses federalism to divide governmental powers between the federal government and the individual state governments. The Tenth Amendment tells us that all powers not granted to the federal government are reserved to the states. I think we sometimes expect too much of the Federal government which as designed was meant to have its authority limited. I like that.  This gives me the freedom to move to a state that is more in line with my views in the way they operate and the laws of that state. For example i personally would not choose to live in California or New York because my views are not aligned with their state laws and the  way they operate.

The community in Florida i live in best reflex my views and i would say 90+ % of the people follow the CDC's recommendations. As a result, we have the lowest Covid-19 rate of the three counties surounding us and one of the lowest community rates. About everything is open and operating at 50% capacity seating. If i go to a restaurant that doesn't social distance or workers don't wear masks, i merely notify the manager and leave unless they comply. No hard feelings against them if they don't comply as there are many restaurants like minded as myself. So i will gladly choose another and hope all do likewise. We can only make choices for oneself. I don't expect others to make the same choices as me but their choice will have consequences and i don't need to share in them. I can always eat at home.

2 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

Thing is we really do need to play it safe and practice the CDC's and medical experts guidelines until we get a vaccine. We really do.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elen1107

I don't disagree with that. Being over 70 i am particularly at risk and take the prescribed precautions you mention. What others do is up to them. Eventually foolishness will reveal itself to those who do not use wisdom. We can make suggestions to others but each ultimately must be responsible for their own actions. We can do our best to separate ourselves from those we believe might be choosing to act unwisely. The risk of harm is always greater in a free society and i prefer and am okay with that.

I have confidence in the talented people we have in this society and believe we will have many more vaccines being released  either before or just after the new year.

Elen,

I for one think you are on the right track. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding is a powerful writing that will prove itself over and over. I don't worry about mistakes i may make on the way. God is well able to make me stand in spite of falls or any failings on my part. I know and have no doubt that live die, sink or swim, nothing shall be able to separate me from the love of God which is in Christ.

6 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

That actually sounds kind of interesting. I wouldn't mind knowing more about that/those experience(s) of yours, that's if you want to put them into words and share with people.

A lot of it has been shared here over the last 11 years and that which is not can be found in a book with both factual and fiction inserted in it to make it more readable. It was published in 2003 called "An Awakening Within" available by ebook or softcover from Amazon. Barnes and Noble or directly from Trafford Publishing  by e-book for $3.99.

Paul,

Always 2 sides of the story on immunity...  While this doesn't negate King study, it shows that its only a possible suggestion and more research is needed before it is scientifically proven immunity disappears at some point in time.

-----------------------------------

But despite the anecdotal reports from doctors about patients becoming reinfected with the coronavirus, researchers say there's no evidence supporting the notion that people can become reinfected with the virus within a short time period.

"I haven't heard of a case where it's been truly unambiguously demonstrated," said Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

For instance, South Korea's Center for Disease Control and Prevention in one study confirmed that, among 285 cases of people who again tested positive for the coronavirus two months after receiving their initial positive test results (including some who were experiencing Covid-19 symptoms two months after their initial diagnoses), none of the patients' new samples contained enough virus particles to allow researchers to grow the virus from the samples in a lab. Researchers said those results indicated that the patients weren't actively infected with the virus, and the diagnostic tests likely had detected dead virus particles that remained in their bodies or generated false-positive positive results.

Further, the researchers noted that none of the patients who re-tested positive for the coronavirus transmitted the pathogen to others.

"It was pretty solid epidemiological and virological evidence that reinfection was not happening, at least in those people," Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University, said.

As for studies showing that antibodies for the novel coronavirus decline over time, researchers say that's how antibodies work for a host of viruses.

Michael Mina, an immunologist at Harvard University, said although those studies have left some people "scratching their heads saying, 'What an extraordinarily odd virus that it's not leading to robust immunity,' … they're totally wrong."

"It doesn't get more textbook than this," he added.

------------------------------------------------------

Reference : https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/07/24/covid-reinfection

4 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

So the book itself is telling us we don't need a book. Do we need a book to tell us that, or can anyone anywhere figure it out on their own. . .

In my experience no book is needed but ...    sometimes the book or a book or person helps us to get to the point where we do not need a book or the other to receive directly for ourself. Some people never get past a book because they are caught up in their dependency on them or unwilling to wait on God for a more personal answer through trust and faith.

3 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

Maybe they could figure it out a lot easier if all these books and dogma weren't being dumped on them all the time If they could experience God and God's Love directly, instead of dealing with all this "cultural" and other crap.

I would agree with that.

Personally i found only when i allowed God to tear down the building that  i was taught in 4 years of Bible college and then  allow God to build the building did i progress beyond the book part.

2 hours ago, thormas said:

only with a book😷

 ^{1 John 2:27}As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Even the book disagrees with you!

On 8/4/2020 at 7:57 PM, PaulS said:

Well, I was only joking, but in my view he is neither a Nazi or a demon.  Just a rich bloke with his views and probably thought of by some to be part of a greater conspiracy against mankind.  Each to their own.

Well i am not joking .... life has taught me that only the naive brush off conspiracy as a viable possibility. Every organization i have been a part of has  conspired at one time or another, some even which i have been complicit with. Men are not angels and they are always subject to the lusts of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. Soros "open Society" may not be classified as secret though some is planned in secret, and some may dismiss it's lack of secrecy as not a conspiracy but the fact remains... his large wealth and views are being used to pervert the course of history which those with different views but a lack of such resources are unable to do.

1 hour ago, thormas said:

And the very idea of limiting the vote, threatening the post office, is so un-American that any who support it, along with the orange trumpster, is complicit.

Be a man Donald and wage a campaign worthy of the people (not yourself) and model the best of America: win or lose fairly - and deal with it either way. Sadly he never has and one only hopes that other Americans - Republican, Democrat and Independent - see his bull and opposes it.

Thomas ,

Why don't you tweet your thoughts to President Trump himself instead of thinking you are some kind of all knowing  judge, jury and executioner here! You seem pretty good at ranting yourself. We acknowledge your hate and despise for him so why don't you think about just letting  it go and allow yourself to heal? 

Bedtime here.  Gday Mate

1 minute ago, PaulS said:

What is telling is that once they did get their act into gear, the death rates of these countries fell astronomically.  So too did their infection rates.  Italy learnt its lessons and implemented appropriate practices and measures, and you know how many people are dying there each day now?  Single digits.  

Or a degree of herd immunity that you don't believe exists. 🙂

3 minutes ago, PaulS said:

It's not about my glorious, sunburnt country of open plains and beaches trumping (no pun intended) the horror of a covid-ridden US at war with itself.

You can't believe everything you read. In fact 50 % is made up and the other 50 is questionable.  I wouldn' trade living here for anywhere else in the world. No war here in the villages. Yhe protesters know better than to venture here. 3000 active gun club members. 🙂

I don't think you understand Trump or what he is working with to make such a claim. I give him an A.

Do you suppose that Italy and Spain are not as smart as Aussies? Or your Queen, federation of States, or monarchy is smarter. I think not. We all have our unique problems.

It's easy to stop it in its tracks with the density of your country compared to ours. Don't give your country too much credit.🙂

Happy? I'm living with it with a positive outlook at least for now. You have a land size almost as large as ours with less than 1/10 the population. If you think you are doing better then think about that.

Come on Paul. Your numbers say otherwise. Australia is a unique country. Sure you had some problems but except for a few large cities you are really spread out. Look at your population and land size compared to ours. Hail to the queen. 

There are 9 countries with more deaths per population than the US. All things considered, we are not doing so bad.

Well, we have had protests with people shouting at close distances and young people having parties etc. etc . You got so much lightly inhabited  land in Australia that you don't have the social distancing problem we do.

Well. the proof is in the pudding. Show me the people who were reinfected that had the antibodies even if they were degraded. At best it is a scientific guess that they are not immune.

Then i guess we will just have to wait and see. Save your money , you may need it. 🙂

My original post only suggested that a degree of herd immunity might account for the negligible 2nd spike in NY based on the large number of deaths that point to an infection rate many times  higher than all but 3 other states.

1 minute ago, PaulS said:

Well I would have thought you would be able to show me seeing as you are convinced (presumably based on evidence) that herd immunity works for covid19.

Never said i was convinced . Said you don't know it doesn't.

Just now, PaulS said:

That's one bet that I wouldn't want to be staking lives and an economy on.

Well that's fine with me because that's not your decision to make. 🙂

Just now, PaulS said:

The word 'suggest' in a yet-to-be-peer-reviewed-study is like using the word theory when discussing evolution.  They are saying the evidence is showing you that very few people (less than 17% of the cohort) have antibodies at the 3-month mark.  That is beyond dispute in the study.  'Why' or 'how' that occurs is the only 'suggestion' - the science that they drop off is proven in the study.

Where is the real data such as people who have had it getting it again?

5 minutes ago, PaulS said:

I have faith that eventually a vaccine will likely be found.  But the quickest time-frame ever that the world has seen a vaccine developed for a disease, is the one for mumps - and that took 4 years.  So whilst I have hope that technological advancements will speed up the process today, I think it is prudent to treat the virus as though no vaccine will be found.  At least until we can get a handle on it and manage it better. 

Russia claims to already have one.

The past speed is no proof of the future.

Science has come along way and I would bet you we have more than one vaccine here in the US before the end of the year oh ye of little faith. 🙂😃