JosephM

Point taken. Yet Internal dialog to me is a most important aspect of progress. In my experience, one can learn quite a bit just watching (being the witness of) ones own thinking mind internal dialog. From it we can see and feel what would otherwise be a form of unconscious and programmed actions, thus giving us the opportunity of alternative choices viewing from 'outside the box' so to speak. Can we rely on internal dialog? In my view, of course not. But we can learn a lot about our nature and tendencies from paying attention or being mindful of the dialog and feelings which i personally view as highly conducive to spiritual progress. (whatever that is)

I also find no confusion and balance at a deeper level in what many see as chaotic, turmoil or the seemingly randomness of life. Perhaps it is just a choice i have made as a result of my own experience? It does also, to me, seem to be reassuring and healing.

Derek, I think you hit the nail on the head. It "is largely academic". While i tend to side with the view we have a choice and a will, the free part seems to me to be limited and not free in the true sense of the word "free". However, i wouldn't put any quid on it. The perceived advantage, as i see it, of my choice of view of the matter, is my compassion instead of anger is triggered by some of the seemingly ignorant choices we all seem to make .

Cheers Mate, That's no rubbish. Cosmos it is to me also. The question " Do you believe in God" is no longer a suitable question to me as it gets me knackered. To me it is similar to a non-question both in that it is as you say "full of presuppositions and baggage" and also by my own definition, the answer is self evident. Excuse my Brit slang Joseph

Interesting.... Disbelief = inability or refusal to accept that something is true. Which begs the question ... (But is it really true just because it is external to self? ) I would ask many fundamental Christians.... What is true about God. Usually they answer... The Bible the usual conversation follows........ Me: Why is the Bible true? Other: Because the Bible is infallible. Me: Why is it infallible? Other: Because the Bible is the word of God. Me: How do you know it’s the word of God? Other: Because the bible says it is the word of God. Me: But how do you know that it’s telling you the truth? Other: Because the Bible is infallible. Now to me that is tautological belief even though the Bible is external to self. It becomes a product of ones own mind and is capable of infecting other minds when passed down by tradition and repetitive teachings without sufficient evidence. Follow up questions such as : Is Jesus God? Is the "Rapture" physical and real? Is Sin Sin like Black is Black and White is White? Are Heaven and Hell physical eternal places? etc. Well the Bible says so... I agree with you.. disbelief is more interesting than tautologies.

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And just who is that 'I am' with or without the ego? The ego seems to me to not be who you are but rather a series of thoughts, memories, fabricated viewpoints, etc of a story, real or unreal, (probably make-believe) that has taken on an identity as if it is truly separate and is that story. It seems to me the One who created it in the first place is the One who through evolution will awake and pass through it (Drop or still it (the ego)) and loose that individual identity which is subject to decay anyway. Just my 2 c

Burl wrote, Fair enough Burl, I find nothing argumentative in expressing or explaining your point of view. I only moved it here because the below quote you made seems argumentative/debatable in my estimation. You seem to me, to be accusing Paul of not considering evidence which would challenge his preconceptions which seems to be a personal judgement on your part if i am understanding it correctly. Your second paragraph seems to insinuate his belief system is not growing. Why? because he disagrees with you? Anyway, that comment in my view, would seem not to have been necessary to explain your belief but perhaps we all push the envelope a bit when we seem to be challenged? Joseph

Burl, While i was originally taught and accepted as gospel many Christian tenets of the church system, my personal experience from being open and challenged by study and personal experiences has led me to deconstruction of much dogma and doctrine that once was taught and believed. I don't see how i could consider that as confirmation bias by definition. It was a painful time and i found it hard to go against established Christian thinking and 4 years of training. The rejection from friends and relatives make it very difficult to change beliefs as new evidence and experience continually challenges our existing preconceptions. It seems to me it is confirmation bias that holds us to the confines of our first position when new data or experience is present for the viewing. Paul will have to speak for himself as we are all at different points in our journey, but from what i have discerned from his years here is that his belief system has indeed changed rather than using past bias to re-enforce his old beliefs. Just sayin,.... Joseph

I think i understand what confirmation bias is. Perhaps we are all a bit moved by it. However i don't yet see a clear division that only one of the opposing statements made above indicates confirmation bias is being used. I would be interested in understanding why one is not considered confirmation bias while the other is , if that is the case.

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Zen? Perhaps Christian Zen if we stretch it a bit... or a lot The Tiger by William Blake (1757-1827) Tiger Tiger, burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye, Could frame thy fearful symmetry? In what distant deeps or skies. Burnt the fire of thine eyes? On what wings dare he aspire? What the hand, dare seize the fire? And what shoulder, and what art, Could twist the sinews of thy heart? And when thy heart began to beat, What dread hand? and what dread feet? What the hammer? what the chain, In what furnace was thy brain? What the anvil? what dread grasp, Dare its deadly terrors clasp! When the stars threw down their spears And water’d heaven with their tears: Did he smile his work to see? Did he who made the Lamb make thee? Tiger Tiger burning bright, In the forests of the night: What immortal hand or eye, Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

From your link ...... "And, being spiritually One with God Himself, Jesus could have chosen to avoid those thorns." John 10:30 I and my Father are one. John 17:20-21 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: To me this pretty well indicates that if one considers Jesus as being fully God in the flesh, then anyone that he was referring to (believes on him through their word) is spiritually one with God and Jesus. So if this were true one would not be committing blasphemy by making the same claim. However if one dare make that claim, it would seem to me the whole fundamental Christian Church system would be there wanting to crucify that one. However, to me, seeing that God is all in All and through all things..... in reality, i personally don't think you can separate God from anyone or anything whether there is belief or not, lest they or it cease to exist. As Progressive Christians, it would seem to me, we believe in "the Sacred and the Oneness and Unity of all life" not just the life of the man who is called Jesus. Just my musings after reading link, Joseph

He could be my double if he cleaned up his beard abit. No wonder i always get a strange look from Brits over here.

Is that a G7 Chord?? Some of the many faces of me.

Derek, Actually you have had at least 19 views already. Some are just enjoying your posts, Especially me. Nice poem by Lal Ded Vibrations, vibrations, vibrations .....

Look to the movement of the clouds, the touch of the unseen wind, the embrace of the raindrop, the glow of the sun, the illumination of a lightbulb, the movement of the passing car, Everything, man made or otherwise, pulsates with unseen energy, lose your individual pulsation, Join the universal vibrations, Meet Nirvana Scott Shaw

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As much as we may desire it to be different , reality seems to me to have room for both unity and division and what we might consider good and bad, and a host of other labels that may seem opposing. But life to me is a cosmic dance. An interplay of divine dynamic and static energy. In it there seems to be creation , preservation, destruction, illusion and emancipation. Its all part of "man's changing vision of the Universe" as Koestler might put it. Just musing, Joseph

Ditto. Great message in posted poem.

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Very soothing and peaceful

Beautiful Cheery Blossom Photo. Eager to see more photos. Joseph

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