JosephM

Especially found surprising investigation into the future and time along with their experiments in what some call astral travel. I didn't realize the Army was so interested in a study into consciousness 40 years ago.

Wow. Lost me in a few areas but very interesting. Looks like a bonified CIA site from the http address.

Fair enough Burl. Would like to get more than just 2 of us to start. Anyone else? The book is a #1 NY Times Best Seller. Joseph

Anyone interested in a book discussion of "The Power of Now , A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment" by Eckhart Tolle? It contains an introduction and 10 Chapters and we could discuss 1 chapter a week over a 10 week period. "You are here to enable the divine purpose of the universe to unfold. That is how important you are!" ---Eckhart Tolle

Paul, Well, you make a good point. I have had revelations since i was a toddler but was unable to process it with my mind. The revelations never changed but yes my understanding of it has. Revelations are in my experience without words and we use the mind and vocabulary we have at the time to describe them and interpret as best we can. There is never doubt present in the experience, only in ones thoughts afterwards as the conditioned mind attempts to process it in language. So the words indeed change over time but the experience remains unchanged. It is , at least in my experience , an evolving process in terms of interpretation, but the experiences are complete in themselves and require none. Joseph

One could think that and it is understandable for an enquiring mind to reach that conclusion. In fact it would be difficult for a reasoning mind not to do so. Reasoning in my view, has a God view point that processes abstractions and what one might consider a consciousness level that has a meaningful life view and emotions of an understanding nature. However, without processing revelation it is, my experience, that one can go no further toward joy or peace and an understanding that comes not from the mind but rather a knowing from revelation, transfiguration and illumination that is innate in all only when one steps beyond the limitations of the reasoning process. I see it as a very difficult barrier to breaK through. So your view in my mind is understandable and there is no fault present. Joseph

Ok so here is my post to the question .... Who am I? i have a body and a mind and a story which are all conditioned and to perish with the using. If I identify Self as these things I will be subject to these things and what most humans consider the ills associated with being subject to them. This will continue through chapters of what we refer to as time whether in or out of body until we come to the knowledge of who or what we are. Who are we? We are One mind experienced as an evolving energy tree of creation with many branches and leaves all connected and interdependent yet not necessarily perceived as such because of identification to a part of the whole. How and why it evolved as such are questions that arise from that perceived separateness and misidentification which is but illusion. When realization occurs there is an identity shift in consciousness to the One which in reality is all there is. All in All. It is without words or questions or locality or time which are all to perish as manifestations or changing energy patterns of the Unmanifest. So who am I? I am not the things you see and we are the same. Joseph

Paul, I see it as the physical mind which separates. It is not the mind that itself sees all is One. The mind feeds on separateness for fear of death which is inevitable for it. It is a creation, a manifestation of consciousness and has no real permanent reality itself.. It thinks it is separate from others. Hence the only separation between us is in your mind. Essentially the physical mind is a tool that through evolution has taken on an identity of its own as if it is you. Consciousness in the manner i speak of it is not thought or the identity the physical mind has taken on.. It is Life itself. Thought is merely a product of consciousness as is the body and is not consciousness itself. Joseph came into being as an identity in the thinking mind some 70+ earth years ago as a creation. Before that he was not and after physical death he is not. Yet there was never a time when "I" was not. There is no exterior or interior except to the physical mind. Consciousness has no locality. The proof is in the pudding. ?? and the gaps.... Reside there and see ? Just another conundrum to ponder on as everything is energy and reality as one sees it is nothing but a persistant illusion. (not real).... ha... and that's scientific quantum physics proof.

Paul, I can understand your view especially since consciousness is not really a visible thing nor does it require thinking to be present. I certainly could offer no evidence other than some of what you already mentioned and some would say that scientifically it is no more than conjecture. However, since i perceive that very subtle presence even without thought which some might classify more accurately as a feeling, to me there is no internal debate going on in mind on its eternal existence which is not separated from what we call others and view as separate in our evolved thinking mind but in reality is One. It seems to me the more one identifies with mind as in the physical brain, the more difficult it is to perceive. In actuality i think you will find God is in the gaps of thinking so to speak. Being thusly, thinking to me cannot resolve the issue nor offer proof. Such a conundrum! ?? Joseph

Concerning the sentence I made bold: in the copy of your post: Interesting. I see it the other way around. To me, Physicality would not exist without consciousness. I know Descartes said I think, therefor I am but in my experience, I am is primordial. I am therefor I think, in my view, would be more correct. Joseph

Question everything, Personally i view the second coming not as a one event in time for all but rather a revealing or uncovering of Christ within us. For many i believe that has happened already each in their own order. I see it as a spiritual coming not physical. Joseph

Do you use a story or your experience to define yourself? Father, husband, accountant, etc. Are you your mind? Are you your physical body? Are you a product of society and what your mind believes? Or are you something else? What do you say....... Who do you say you are?

Thanks to those who have already responded. We are now looking for 8 additional sponsors to take us through September of 2019. Joseph

Looking for 9 additional sponsors to carry us through September of 2019. If interested in supporting this site please read THE PREVIOUS POST.

It has been a year since our last support drive... Our hosting fees run $20 per month and to keep the site operating we depend on the generosity of Site Sponsors. I am looking for 11 other Members besides myself wishing to sponsor a month to take us to August of next year. As Site Sponsor you will receive some special perks for 1 year. * "Site Sponsor" in your avatar to indicate you are a Site Sponsor and helping to financially support this forum's mission by helping to bear the cost of one months Internet hosting fee (presently 20.00/month) * Flood control limitations removed from your searches * Increased post editing time from 30 to 60 minutes * Increased number of posts allowed in a 24 hour period to 100 * Can view who gave reputation points and some other limits increased. *Access to a Private Site Sponsors Sub-Forum (not visible to the public or regular members where you can talk more openly to other sponsors and have a say concerning the operation of this forum. * Free advertisement of a book or paper you authored displayed for 12 months as an image with a link to a purchasing site THANKS FOR YOUR ATTENTION. You can PayPal at jmattioli@hotmail.com or PM me for where you can send a check if you are interested, able and willing to help support your forum and its mission by being a Site Sponsor for a year by making a one time $20.00 donation. There is no requirement to do so to be a member of this community . Please note that if you are outside the US it would be necessary to use paypal as our bank charges an outrageous fee for cashing out of country checks. PayPal your support to jmattioli@hotmail.com Joseph Mattioli (JosephM), TCPC Discussion Board Administrator

I think the quote here recorded in the Kalama Sutra reportedly by the Buddha is a wise one to consider..... “Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.” It seems to me that we should test the wisdom we find in the writings for ourselves . IE: Have you tried forgiveness? Has it brought more peace to your life? Have you tried being non-judgmental and not constantly measuring others? Does it reduce your own personal guilt and bring more peace to your life? Have you tried friendship by first showing yourself friendly? Have you tried kindness, love, gentleness, patience, self-control? Are there benefits to these for welfare? Do they lead to happiness and peace with your fellow man? etc. etc. Test them for yourself. These to me are the important aspects of Christianity and all religions along with not getting lost in the mire of the verbiage that only creates strife and confusion. My 2 cents, Joseph

Thormas, Like Paul i am a bit skeptical myself concerning the intentions of those who put together the NT Bible. That skepticism is based not on provable fact but on my experience with the church system and organizations in general even today. It seems to me that Jesus himself didn't really trust religious organizational systems . Most of what i find to be his most insightful teachings seem to be recorded as teaching outside the system directly to the people. My experience shows me that religious leaders tend to have there own private agenda behind the facade of that which appeals to the people. It seems to me that many but not all leaders have not yet evolved past the the point of lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. These things were in the world then as now and are temptations to all . Joseph

SKye, I try not to look at it as a dichotomy such as external or internal. God to me is All in All. Without location and beyond languaging. Yes it says he will come and take up his abode in us but that in my experience is a deficiency in language as you were never separate from God in the first place except as a figure of speech. You could not exist except for the fact that God is the very substrate of your very existence. At least that is my personal experience put in words. Joseph

Welcome Skye, i hope you find what you are looking for here. Perhaps a step in your journey. May you find much peace inside yourself. Joseph

Yes Thomas, Good advice to be thankful and i would add grateful.

For myself, i can't say what Jesus really said or didn't say, or for that matter if he said anything..... but i can read the words and compare them to my own experiences and test them in life to see if there is truth in them that can be verified in my own experience. Doing that i have found much of the reported teachings to be true and those that have not been verified in my own experiences i have found comfortable to just let sit until it is revealed to me as profitable or not.. ie: I have experienced the at oneness with God and creation and therefor can relate to those recorded words in John. I have experienced the power of forgiveness, non judgement and excusing rather than accusing to experience the profitableness of such wisdom. To me it doesn't matter who says the words as truth seems to me to be freely given. Therefore what credit is there to a man for sharing what he/she has received as a gift. Even Jesus is recorded saying "i speak not my own words but the words of him who sent me. (John 7-16) To me the message is most important. Focusing on the messenger seems to me a distraction from truth. Just saying, Joseph

Yes Burl, Good point. Both at once i can relate to.

Jack, That's an interesting observation. Personally i do not see it that way from the writings in John 10:30 where it records Jesus saying I and my Father are one and then later follows it in John 17:21-23 King James Version (KJV) with 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: To me i do not see an external God at least spiritually speaking when one is in Christ which in my view means in the Greek to be annointed or as the root of the word Christos implies ... as in the idea of being smeared together with God. After all, if God is in and through all things or All in All as Paul is recorded writing then the idea of being separate and external seems to me to fall away. Even my own personal experience reveals to me that it is impossible to exist as separate from God. Just my point of view, Joseph

Many years ago when i studied Greek i wrote this under a pen name as it was a bit progressive for its time. I would like to revisit it if anyone has interest. If not , i'll remove the thread as when it was presented in the past it was rejected and seemed to offend some of the more fundamental thinking at the time even on this site. The True Gospel Message Enlightenment from a Christian Perspective By Koshada Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent (metanoeo) (in Greek) means to think differently for the (basileia) realm of (ouranos) by implication happiness or elevated state is (eggizo) made near or at hand. Note: The kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are used interchangeably in the New Testament yet are two different words in the Greek. Heaven denotes the elevated state and God denotes Divinity or the source. John 3:3-6 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Truly, Truly, unless a man is (gennao) regenerated or brought forth of the water (flesh) and of the (pneuma) Spirit/vital principle he can’t go in the realm of (theos) Divinity. The two are different. Flesh is (sarx) flesh as in meat of an animal and Spirit is Spirit/vital principle as in essence. To regenerate is to renew again which signifies that something of the Spirit was set aside or forgotten or lost and needs to be renewed to enter back in to the realm of Divinity. In reality nothing is really lost but in this world of duality it is as if it is lost. Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: [21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Here it is plainly told that the realm of Divinity does not (erchomai) appear or come with (parateresis) observation or ocular evidence. Further more he tells us the realm of Divinity is (entos) inside or within you. The outside world would not exist without the presence of the life force from within. (Within and without are from the perspective of this world as in true reality there is neither) Col. 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: To whom God/Divinity would make known what is the (ploutos) wealth as in fullness of the glory of this (musterion) secret or mystery (as in hid) which is (Christos) his anointing (his Divinity) as in the idea of contact in you, the hope of glory (his apparent fullness or presence). 2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. If any man be in the anointing contact of God, he is a new creature (as in regenerated freshness): old things are (parerchomai) neglected / set aside / passed away, all things are become ( kainos) new as in freshness. Luke 18:29-30 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, [30] Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting. Left (aphiemi) house or parents, or wife or children does not mean go away or abandon but rather ‘laying aside’ the attachment and desires associated for the realm of Divinity‘s sake. It is a preference of preferring one above the other and not necessarily a physical leaving. This is because there is no where to leave or go in the physical to find the realm of Divinity which is within. It is clear the reward for leaving the old is great in this PRESENT TIME and in the world to come. (See fruits below in Galatians 5:22) Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. We arrive at this state by the simple considering or reckoning ourselves (as in Repent or thinking differently) to be dead to sin (which is ignorance of the flesh or what some call ego, vanities of the flesh or the old creature which is a result of a false center of self or false thinking) and alive to our true being in Divinity through the same anointing that was in Jesus. In simpler terms the only task to be accomplished is to let go of the identification with the flesh nature (ego or old creature) as one’s real self. Of course, only when one is ready or sees through introspection the fruitlessness of his present state and path will he even be drawn to think differently in his search for truth. Removing the obstacles standing in the way brings revelation understanding and truth which is present all along but obscured. These obstacles include but are not limited to learned and preconceived perceptions of reality, subjective opinions, upbringing, subjective experience, false teachings, and mentations with a mind that operates on dualities, is limited, subjective and incapable of discerning truth from falsehood without the intervention of the Spirit. Since Truth is self evident and already present within, then the key to the kingdom and the fruit is letting go of that which is not true (or as most would say that which is false). This realignment of self to our true nature of Divinity brings about a change in context. (You are what you worship) That change reveals itself in fruit. Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. These are the fruits that are manifested from this anointing called Christ in you in Christianity, which is your hope of the presence of God/Divinity in you. The fruit of faith is not the same as believing but is truth itself as defined in Hebrews 11:1 (the substance or evidence of things not seen with the eyes) Many are worried that by realignment of their thinking they may manifest evil instead of good with their fruits being the opposites of above. However, it is an impossibility to willfully remove the obstacle of duality and end up with opposites as they don’t exist except in the duality of the mind of man which has to be surrendered to God or reckoned dead. There is no such thing as death, evil, fear, anger, hate, pride, conflict, judgment, force or even time in the world of non-duality. They are not possible because they can exist only in mentations in the world of effects and form. That world is changing and evolving as the consciousness of man evolves by the transformation from the Divinity within us. Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. Amen. 1 Cor. 15:55-56 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? [56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. When Christ/Divinity/Truth/Light/Enlightenment is realized, physical death loses its sting which is sin/ignorance. The grave loses its victory because fear of death is gone and we know that we are complete in Divinity and physical death has no power over us. For the strength of sin or ignorance was the law or belief system. (Judgments and measuring which manifests as un-forgiveness , condemnation and fear.) It is recorded that Jesus prayed in John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: The questions will of course arise: How did we get into this predicament of separateness in the first place? How did that which was enlightened to start become unenlightened? The answer is Choice. By choice mans consciousness chose to know both good and evil (the false world of duality) and create a belief system, a melodrama and experience it with all of its attributes. As the human mind/soul gave reality to falsity, it then believed that the falsity had an independent existence. Man identified with that mind and body and became subject to suffering in the form of shame, guilt, pride and fear which existed only in his mind. And the mind creates that which it believes. Man then became unaware or as some say unenlightened of his true nature and subject to error. Creating the world of duality or opposites in a mind allows us to experience the world of form in a myriad of false ways as a separate reality of the minds creation. Being lost in its melodrama led to misidentification and ignorance of our true nature and manifested as positionality and subjective opinionating which is vanity. To the mind it appears we are many separate self existent beings but the nature of Divinity within us tells us we are one and sees allness in all of creation, both with and without form. But not to worry. Ephes. 1:9-10 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: [10] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 1 Cor. 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. The end is sure. In the fullness of times, ALL will return (home or to source) from whence it came. In Reality, nothing is lost or gained. No one has really left in the first place as the presence of Divinity is the only reality of an omnipresent God. The absence of Divinity is merely a mentation of mind. To remove oneself from the presence of Divinity is an impossible scenario as existence itself whether in or out of form is Divinity by essence. Nonexistence is by linguistic definition a hypothetical and by definition cannot exist.) Note: Christ is not a man. Jesus manifested Christ consciousness or the connection with Divinity. But his name was not Jesus Christ even though he is referred to that way. He was called “the Christ”. It is a nature or title. In the same way, Siddartha was called “the Buddha”. It is a nature and title meaning an awakened one and is not a name of a person though it is often used that way. It can be downloaded free at this link if desired. https://sites.google.com/site/josephmattiolipc/writings/Gospel Message.htm?attredirects=0&d=1 Comments? Joseph

I think this thread has run its course and is getting a little too personal with references to the individual rather than the subject matter. Therefore I am closing the thread to further replies. JosephM (as Admin) THREAD CLOSED