JosephM

Yes, it is through 'knowing' by grace that we are saved from living a life of conditioned unconsciousness that keeps us asleep from the truth.

On 6/6/2023 at 7:08 AM, tariki said:

Again, it is avidya, ignorance, that is the problem, not "sin" (against a Supreme Being)

Well said. Christianity is heard to say sin is a trangression against God or Law. Yet, it also says where there is no Law, there can be no violation (sin imputed), and to be condemed there must a Law, an accuser and a judge. If Christ (as in the annointing or meshing together with our creator) has made a free from the Law and knowlege keeps us from judging ourself through our absence of accusation of others, such a concept as sin is dead. And in Christ there is therefore no condemnation because with that knowledge, our ignorance  is absent.

Just my 2 cents

Joseph

Great Read. Thanks

Progressive Christianity does not have a particular dogma concerning life after death. Speculation to me has no particular value . If pressed for an answer I would agree with tariki in his post above. Perhaps it is best left as a deliverence from the pull of the ego based  mind. I would find it beneficial to not allow my mind to dbate such an issue.

Joseph

PS I think death of this flesh will come soon enough to alleviate such an issue.

Hi Jo.

In my experience i have found that the world is full of different views and life is filled with uncertainties. Take no views as absolute and uncertanties accept as the cost of being part of humanity.

There is an old adage "Home is where the heart is" that perhaps is true but i have found it is not a physical place. Everything seems to me to come to us as we are ready. This journey is your own and it seems to me you can find rest in your own true Self and trust that whatever life force is within you, whatever you want to call that substate of your very being, if you trust with all of your heart, leaning not to your own self understanding, acknowleging 'that' in all your ways, your path will be directed. Worry is not necessary and failure is not an option..

It seems to me, Neither life, nor death nor any other thing or non-thing is able to separate you from the Love for the person you have chosen for us to call Jonielle. You are Home and loved and in time will become more aware of it as you recognize and become aware that everything you need is already within you. Home included.

Love in Christ,

Joseph

Welcome Jim,

You are definitly not alone in your observations concerning the mainstream Christian religion. In my view, there is a peace that awaits the end of our sruggles by the  acceptance of our living  in a world that is full of uncertainties. May the travels of others here be a blessing to you on your journey.

Love in Christ,

Joseph

Greetings catnamedgoose and welcome to the forum,

Thank you for the introduction. I think there are many that have traveled that same road before including myself. Some are still here and others have continued on in their journey. It seems to me you are on a path of deeper understanding of Christianity and you will find what you are looking for.

Love in Christ,

Joseph

Welcome Jake,

It seems Bart Ehrman has struck a chord with others here also. He has been often referenced in posts on this site. Happy to hear you are finding your studies and Christianity relevant in your journey. It seems to me no one religion or scope of study has a corner on truth and usefulness in one life. I also no longer consider myself a "seeker". Quite a few of the views you share in your post seem to be fairrly common on this site.

Joseph

Anna G,

I think the first verse says it all.....    Note the words that say must shortly come to pass. I don't believe the word shortly is an error so the things written in the book must be as Paul said above interpreted about events contempory to the author and their implications of their past, present , and things which were shortly to come to pass rather than thousands of years later.

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Joseph

On 10/20/2021 at 11:11 AM, romansh said:

Yes ... nice. The universe (cosmos) is clearly chaotic. And we humans are part of that chaos.

Personally, i would only saythe universe appears chaotic. However, it is my opinion that it is not. 

Greetings Tariki (Derek)

Interesting dream. Kind of a past dream buff myself.  My quick take on it.

Fish is a basic source of life to people and tape holds things together and the cheeks are a view of our emotional life. 

It seems to me you are finished with the emotional need of engaging to feed your basic need. The tape finished getting larger and larger and the fish was removed. While you may think you need to continue with this need (you mentioned). It seems to me it is no loger necessary. (But you already know this)

Joseph

I think to be fair we can say just as there  is evidence that people are born homosexuals , there is also evidence that people are born pedifiles.. Either one can be classified at times and has been classified in the past by society as a crime. Some are homosexuals yet are able to resist the urge and some are pedofiles and are able to resist the urge.  Others are not able to resist the urge regardless of how society classifies it.

I'm heterosexual and it appears to me I was born that way. It's the attraction and urge i remember since i was young. Does that make me better or worse than other alternatives? I don't think so .... yet in general,  society makes their own rules and defines acceptable conduct and it does seem wise to me to try and fit in. Just sayin.

Welcome Randy,

Read a bit of your "Change Begins Here: Adopt the Mind of Christ and Build a Better World".  Excellent, easy to read and follow. Thank you for all you do to contribute to Unity utilizing Books and Art and personal change.

Joseph

5 hours ago, JosephM said:

Yes, You can search for "the meaning of life" for a lifetime or you can come to the realization that life itself is its own meaning.

3 hours ago, romansh said:

Whatever that means?

Life can be likened to a complex Computer Program with a multitude of individual subroutines that interact with each other. While each subroutine performs its own actions modified by its code, variables and the inputs and outputs of other subroutines or groups of subroutines and meaning might be supposed by a limited interaction and view,  the real meaning of the Program is not in the subroutine but rather the whole of the Program. Program meaning cannot be ascertained as long as the subroutine is limited by ones own code even with the limited interactional view with other subroutines. 

10 hours ago, Kellerman said:

My personal interpretation of all of it is kind of: *shrug* who knows???

I only became open to spirituality when I fully embraced not needing to imbue things with meaning. 

I was listening to Eckhart Tolle talk about meaning and he basically said "who cares?" And I was like "right...who cares?"

Yes, You can search for "the meaning of life" for a lifetime or you can come to the realization that life itself is its own meaning.

Hello Anthony,

Welcome to the forum. You are not alone in your quest. Starting your own small support group to meet in your homes would be great if you can find some like-minded individuals. Too much structure seems to me inevitable with larger groups. Best of luck in your endeavors.

Joseph

patrolwagon,

In context of the entire Bible writings, it seems to me, the Mark of the Beast is invisible to the natural eyes and nothing more than the mind that minds the things of man and the flesh (the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life) , and  those whose right hand of fellowship is with such. The Beast itself is nothing more than the thinking mind of man that is no longer used as a tool but rather sits in the temple (body) of man as if it is god directing ones path thinking it is in control.  However it fears knowing it has a short time to live and  perishes with the using because the Beast surely dies with the body.

Joseph 

On 5/6/2021 at 6:29 AM, PaulS said:

So Joe, do you think it is more meaningful to live a life one feels more satisfied with compared to living a life that one doesn't feel satisfied with?  I know it's never going to be all beer and skittles, but still, is there any relevance to what we make of this life, whilst we exist?

In reality, it is no more or less meaningful. Yes, it is usually more favorable to one to feel satisfied with the living of his/her life. What that encompasses can be different for each individual. Life in this body is subjective at best and ones desires and fulfilments usually affect ones satisfaction with ones living. Having said that, i have found, the only lasting satisfaction while living here, disregards self in favor of the whole.

On 5/2/2021 at 11:58 AM, romansh said:

I get it ...  Me thinking of the chair as red benefits me more than the chair.

But I am not sure how ignoring the illusory nature of forgiveness or the chair being red is of an 'ultimate' benefit. Would not "understanding there is nothing to forgive" be of benefit as well?

To think of forgiveness as a benefit, one would have to think that there is some sort of independent good or not good floating around.

Think of Alan Watts'  Chinese farmer story here. Maybe?

Yes, there is benefit in "understanding there is nothing to forgive" But that is an understanding normally gained through passing through the dichotomy of unforgiveness and non forgiveness and belief in an independent or objective good or bad which leads most often to guilt. It seems to me,  life is a journey and that understanding usually requires passing through the dichotomy of it .

In my view, as far as the meaning of life goes, that is to me a non-question. Life is its own meaning in that the meaning is in itself  To search for " THE meaning of life" is fruitless because that which gives this life existence is Life, of which source is in, yet also, outside physical boundaries and mental explanations and can only be marginally understood in any sense of the word by being/living That. And then we are left without words.

Joseph

Why would that be so, Daniel?

Yes, Just because we may not have a way "at this time" that is available to test/verify something does not make it incompatible with science. Science is an evolving process and not having equipment available at a particular moment in time to test something in my view should not be construed as incompatibility with science in general. Unless of course ones definition of compatible to science is limited to present time science capabilities.

3 hours ago, romansh said:

Ahh but was your mind free not to take that drink of water?

Of course not! 🙂 And if I could move objects without my hands it still most probably would not be free. 😃

6 hours ago, John Hunt said:

Can the mind change the course of events, or how far that’s just reading meanings into what happens, I don’t know. If everyone prayed intensely at the same time for a meteor to be moved off a collision course with the earth, would it have any effect? Could a pebble be moved an inch? I guess not. It’s never been done, anyway, not in a way that can be “proved,” photographed.

Yes, the mind can change the course of events and not only that but also move objects. I do it everyday. My mind says to pickup a glass of water and my hands obey and move it from the table to my mouth. My mind thinks golf would be nice today so i go play golf and in doing so the course of events is changed. It can even be photographed. 🙂😃😄

Just a little bit of humor to change the course of events. lol

Joseph

PS. Rom, good to see you back. Delete requested  done.

28 minutes ago, Kellerman said:

I don't have words for it, and really try to avoid defining God. 

I *feel* it, but don't examine it too closely. 

That seems like a great starting point to me.

52 minutes ago, Kellerman said:

These beliefs come from somewhere, and it's not from "being a Christian". 

While there may be a myriad of reasons, it seems to me,  ones personal  life experiences contributes most greatly to ones beliefs.