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David last won the day on May 8 2012

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About David

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    Experienced Member
  • Birthday 07/14/1949

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    California Oct-April, Vancouver Island May-Sept
  • Interests
    I live between worlds. Between the UU, the UCC, the Disciples, and the Episcopalians. Between working in the corporate world and being retired. Between holy hill in Berkeley and the holy wilderness of Vancouver Island. Between the San Francisco Bay Area and the foothills of Sacramento. Between the Church of the past and the Church yet to come. Between my children as babies and their babies. Between sin and salvation as only a progressive christian can understand. I am a member of Spong's church alumni association working to create a new Church that I am not sure Spong has yet visionalized. On the way I enjoy most all sports, hot tubs and the person I love, my wife Susan.
  1. Dutch, Your post added to mine without necessarily agreeing with all I said. Thank you. The kind of community that I am talking about is organic. From those types of communities we are helped in learning who we are. Bill, I continue to appreciate your struggle with all of this. To me it is obviously a struggle and it makes me hurt inside sometimes. One thing I think that needs to be done is to take TCPC off of its pedestal. I’m not sure that anyone at TCPC tried to get on this pedestal and perhaps the pedestal is not real for many folks. TCPC is a very small group that has b
  2. Paul, I am not sure there is anything that I could say that would change your opinion about what I intended to say, so I won't. Maybe I have helped you in some way to confirm what you think. This forum can do that. David
  3. George, I am sorry if my continued presence bothers you. Folks come and go as their spirit moves. I intend on coming back if Tillich again becomes a focus and I may see some specific thing I would like to talk about. But at present I do not intend on being active anymore. I had a teacher who said that most folks have a few things that they say in many different ways. I think that if you look at different folks you will see common themes that they talk about in several different ways. If you agree with those themes it may not seem to you that those folks are repeating themselves.
  4. Paul, I would not want to try to persuade you that this is not the place for you or for anyone else for that matter who has found comfort in this place. If you have read that into my post please forgive any part that I played in that. Please also do not assume that I require “strict guidelines”. If you have not been a part of the kind of Christian community that I am talking about then you may not be able to understand. Please understand a main point of mine is that it is the communities that we are a part of that help shape who we are as individuals. We obviously disagree about the n
  5. Funk's book is called "Honest to Jesus", not "Honest to God". John A. T. Robinson was the author of the classic "Honest to God". My apologies to both Funk and Robinson.
  6. Just to recap: I embrace the teaching of Jesus because of its intrinsic philosophical value; particularly as expressed in the Sermon on the Mount / Plain. I often seek to emulate that philosophy in my own life. I do not, however, believe in propitiation for sin, resurrection, virgin birth, miracles, etc. Is I am or is I ain't - a Christian? NORM You have gotten to the heart of the matter Norm. I see that you saw that I said goodbye and asked me a question in my absence. Let me not leave without further speaking to your question. I have suggested that people look to the histor
  7. George, Just a minor point which believe me is minor for me. The rule here was going off topic and I think Norm was the one that brought us off topic and we all followed. I was the one however that was chastised. You prove my major point. The community/society has an important and essential stake in the process. That process has a lot to do with inclusion/exclusion Who are you going to include and who are you going to exclude. Having a strong sense of mission is the best way to do that. Having “ground rules” as you say is another way to include/exclude and I have no quarrel with
  8. I keep running up against Joseph the moderator. Best if I just return to silence.
  9. George, Thank you for allowing me some slack here to get to where we can both agree that self definition is a complicated mix of society and individual self. Obviously the next step is to ask how that applies to Christianity and self definition of being a Christian. That is a complicated mix of society and individual self. On the society side we have a whole complex of things to consider and the same goes for on the individual side. It just seems to me that within the progressive "community" there is a tendency to deny any part for the community. Particular values such as acceptance a
  10. Thank you George. That was like pulling teeth. My point obviously is that self definition is a complicated mix of society and individual self. If we can agree on that then we can discuss what may be less absurd and preposterous.
  11. Let me take one question at a time. If I claim to be the President what is the difference between saying that I am not the President and saying I don't meet the definition of being President?
  12. Dutch, If I claim to be the President what is the difference between saying I am not the President and saying I don’t meet the definition of being President? If I say I am not a criminal because I shot someone does not society have the right to say my self definition is wrong? Once we agree on some standard where society is more important than the individual then we can also talk about where the individual does have an absolute right that can not be touched by society. David
  13. Hi Norm, You are setting me up, right? Read above: if I say you are not a Christian I get banned (but what is gained/what is lost since I will be returning to silence). But I guess I am glad that a Jew asked this question because I can say you are not a Jew and not get banned. If you are in the arena of self definition you will soon learn that self definition is not entirely up to the self. If I define myself as the President of the US I soon learn that they do not let me in the White House. If I define myself as a charmed Elf that is ok as long as I do not want to get into the
  14. George, If you can not explain it then it seems to me that it is not a guideline that is generally understood within our society. Raven, DavidK was a certainly not a progressive. He was however one of the more civil fundamentalists that I have come across. If you are publicly progressive then you are going to draw the attention of the fundamentalists. Rather than kicking them off of a forum that is sensitive to progressives I would suggest that we learn how to respond to them in civil conversation. That is going to involve a theological position that fundamentalists take and that is t
  15. As I understand the guideline is that you can say generally that progressives can not be Christian as long as you phrase it in such a way that it is a general assertion as to what a religion encompasses. But you cannot say to an individual progressive who self identifies as a progressive that he/she is not a Christian. Is that correct?
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