Rev Heretic

Yep, I'm a communist too. My curiousity is aroused now. I would be very interested to see what Jesus would score! Mrs. Heretic

You have identified the crux of the matter. It is very difficult to find a church home where we can feel accepted for who we are. Everything Brother Rog and others have said is true. You may find a congregation where you feel at home, but in a denomination that uses itineracy (ministers moving around), you never know what you'll get for ministerial leadership. They try to match congregations with ministers who are somewhat like them, but the system is not perfect and you can find congregations with ministers who together are not at all agreed on any kind of theology. There were some appointments my husband, Rev. Heretic, had, which, after the first month, had us exclaim, "What were they THINKING by putting us here???" The frustrating part of being in a church where you do not feel comfortable is the necessity of having to hide a part of yourself, your beliefs, etc. This is an exceptionally difficult role for a minister, but can be equally difficult for a regular congregation member. I often thought, "This is what it must feel like to be gay - to always watch what you say, what you do, hide your true self." It is a lonely situation. Right now I would say every denomination is split down the middle, between progressive thinking and fundamentalist thinking, those who are literalists and those who look for the spirit of the scriptures. It used to be that whatever denomination shingle was hanging by the door, you could pretty much get an idea of what was inside. No more. I know the UMC is so split right now that some congregations have to explicitly state that they are "Reconciling Congregations" (code word: We accept gays) - duh! I thought that was supposed to be what EVERY congregation was! But so many of them are homophobic that those who are accepting feel the need to make that known. What a state for Christ's church to be in! And if you avoid denominations and go in for the nondenominational churches, they are mostly fundamentalist in my experience. I guess the question is - do we go with the flow and attend an established church, feeling lonely and out of place, do we give up attending anywhere and become Rev. Spong's Church in Exile, or do we start our own churches? How on earth would we go about doing that? How do we find the like-minded people? I know my husband, Rev. Heretic, would be willing to start discussion groups/studies/classes/worship services in people's homes, but that's not something you can just take out an ad in the paper for, is it? Yet, the early Christians met in homes, not in big churches. It is unfortunate that in the history of the church, every time a group had disagreements, it would break away and start up another church, or another denomination, or another whatever. It's too bad the church cannot be unified. If Christianity, as it exists now in most places, is dying (or dead), do we jump ship and resurrect it in a new form or do we stay? My husband becomes very sad when he has had to minister to an obviously dying church desperately trying to save itself. He said he was not called to be in a hospice ministry - which is about all you can do, hold their hand while they are dying and help them with the transition. Maybe through this ongoing dialogue here we can address the issues of where we go from here. We in the church have lost several generations now because the message doesn't make sense anymore. So what now? Mrs. Heretic

Hello everyone - this is our first post as well. We are a husband and wife (I guess you could call us Rev. and Mrs. Heretic) who will be joining these discussions from time to time, either one or both of us. I (Mrs. Heretic) am the typist, so everything has to go through me anyway. Unfortunately, Rev. Heretic can do nothing computer-wise except push the button to turn it on (and that with much teaching!) Today I will be answering the questions for us both. 1) Do you consider yourself to be a progressive Christian? Why or why not? Actually, no. Rev. Heretic considers himself a regressive Christian - meaning his theology leans way back toward what he considers the earliest days of Christianity - before the message got all messed up. 2) Where do you live? Mid coast Maine. 3) What do you do for a living? What do you do outside of your wage-earning job? I am a medical transcriptionist, originally from Tennessee. Rev. Heretic is a fully ordained retired United Methodist pastor, born in Missouri, lived in Tennessee (West and Middle) most of his adult life until the move to Maine. 4) How did you find out about these boards? Bishop Spong's site. 5) What are you looking for as you post here? My husband, since he is retired, has little outlet for his gift of teaching and his need for theological discussion, is tired of arguing with fundamentalists (on another board) and would like to join a group of like-minded people. In his ministry in Tennessee and in Maine, we have found very few like-minded people. Rev. Heretic wants to see a resurrection in the church, which he considers presently dead. He is extremely interested in liturgy - what specifically we need to do to formulate our liturgy into meaning and substance - not empty words, not nonsensical thoughts, not outdated ideas, but enable it to give meaning to worship today. This includes hymn lyric changes, certainly. 6) What on Earth do you think this icon means? Have no idea. 7) Tell us anything else you want to about yourself. Between the two of us, we have been members of the United Methodist Church and the Episcopal Church (both "high" and "low"). We have attended intermittently the Disciples of Christ Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Presbyterian Church, and the Unitarian Universalist Church. We have visited in the Lutheran Church. We have been members of, and pastor to, churches both in the South and the Northeast. We have had therefore broad experience with various denominations. Rev. Heretic also studied with a rabbi for enough time that if he were Jewish, he would have completed the prerequisite study to become a rabbi himself. I (Mrs. Heretic) am a church musician (organ, piano, and voice), so we have usually been a "team" ministry. In summary, we have given much thought to what is "wrong" with the present state of the church. It is not limited to the South, nor is it limited to any one denomination. We believe very strongly that Christ's church is dead, but doesn't know it yet. But as in the resurrection of Christ, it may rise up again (in a different form than the present) to carry on the work of Christ. We have a very strong Christology - that is why we couldn't be comfortable with the Unitarian Universalists. It is not by any means an exclusive Christology, and it's not so much concerned with Jesus (as Borg puts it, the pre-Easter Jesus) but instead is focused on the Christ (the post-Easter Jesus, the Body of Christ, the Church) and the presence of God in Christ in us individually and collectively. Rev. Heretic is also a recovering alcoholic, almost 20 years sober, and his personal transformation has formulated much of his theology. I, Mrs. Heretic, will be the one perusing the message board here, and will notify Rev. Heretic if he needs to write something or respond to something. I also print out various posters' messages so he can read them and think about them and respond to them. Sorry this is so long - it's a complex issue and my husband is a complex man! In Christ, Mrs. Heretic