NeutralThought

You'll have to excuse the language of some of these posts, sometimes it's crude sounding but it loses it's meaning if you sugar coat it. Great article that makes the g0ys point about gAy phucking up what it's like to be a guy who loves guys - with gAy arse sex. http://www.savethehumans.com/culturebashing/outbursts/ heterosexual_topics/index.shtml If the link above breaks, cut 'n paste... This guy rants on about not being into guys anatomy. He may very well be one of the 38% of truly straight guys. He goes off for a while talking about urinals, locker-rooms & not wanting to see guys anatomy. Then he eloquently makes 0ur point: "Although, it's not like I would know if you're gay, anyway. My gaydar is pitiful, and it's not like a doctor is going to hang up, right below his diploma from Harvard, a big picture of himself f***ing some guy in the ass." -- The guy's rant shifts from male anatomy to ... arse phucking all suddenly with the topic of "gay". His rant continues & he unwittingly makes our points as if he has ESP: "This leads me to an issue that really needs some clarification: heterosexual anal sex. Personally, I don't like it because it's very gay. If you like having anal sex with a woman, you might as well ask her to strap on a ###### and ride you like a f***ing bull. I know, technically the ass belongs to a woman. But it's an ass for Christ's sake! Men and women both have asses, and if you're f***ing a woman's ass, all you're doing is research - in the most socially-acceptable way possible - on what it would be like to be gay. If you close your eyes while you're having anal sex with a woman, turning Evelyn into Evander is only a fantasy away. Heterosexual anal sex is just gay batting practice. Now, if you're into that, fine. But it's time to step up to the plate. See, you like ass. So stick with ass. Leave the women for us." -- This guy is TYPICAL of the average Joe's perception of "gay" & the connection with "ass". Why does he believe it so matter-of-factly? It's because the ASSumption is broadcast loudly in the ANnUlS of society; -- And the gAy-male community is doing the most vocal of the TAIL-TELLING: Dirty Disease-Spreading Immoral Phucks. Any question as to how g0ys feel about the Arse-plugg'n bunch? We're making a difference. Arse-phuckerz hate us & so does the Religious reicht! Jerry Falwell & Gay Pride: Together at last! However ... for those of us who are SANE -- we understand that loving our buds is a fulfillment of the highest command; - & luv'n on our buds has nothing to do with playing in arses!

"I found that the very commandment intended for life..." - Paul In his dissertations, Paul made it very clear that the Law was given for LIFE. In other words: God gave a commandment for a REASON and his reasons were to preserve life. I.E: People tell their children not to play in the streets. You'd think that the reason for such a commendment would be obvious. However, religion doesn't understand this principle. Religion isn't interested in reason - only rules. To religion, the child who plays in the street is "sinning" & the God of religion is likely to get into his car and run the child down for 'breaking the commandment'! Religion is too dumb to realize that the commandment was given -- not for the ego of the one making the decree ... but for the life of the one who obeys! Religion is too dumb to realize that the commandment not to play in the street was given -because the streets are inherently dangerous! Likewise, the commandment given to Adam in Genesis was a warning that the tree in the Garden's middle had a deadly fruit. It was that simple. "If you eat, you'll die." The commandment wasn't given because God wanted to make a rule for the sake of having a rule. Religion doesn't understand this & uninformed lay-teachers (theology by rumor) simplify the Genesis account to a level of stupidity until it sounds like this: "Adam & Eve ate the apple the snake gave them. This made God mad - so he dressed them up, cursed them, & threw them out of the Garden." And people actually believe that Genesis tells a story that bizarre! The religion of the lazy, slothful & willfully ignorant preports that God is a grandstanding tyrant who makes rules at His whim & then punishes people who break them! The religion of the ignorant actually preports that God is the one who runs the child down who breaks his rule by playing in the street! The evil God of religion punishes people for eating apples! It isn't swayed by the FACT that nowhere in the account of Adam & Eve does the word "Apple" appear! It's bad enough when people who have never opened a Bible make such stupid assertions. However, it's INEXCUSABLE when people who have been going to "church' for years are ignorant of the specifics of the account! How can people share their "faith" when THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY BELIEVE! Jesus compared it to the blind leading the blind! What does this have to do with Same Sex Attractions (SSA)? Bubba the Baptist knows John 3:16 and that God hates Hoe-moe-sex-shuals (& he's a bit foggy about John 3:16). Bubba the Baptist knows about the "Romans-road"; - And that Sodom was a city plumb-full of hoe-moe-sex- shuals (& He's a bit fuzzy about the sights along that Romans-road). And Bubba the Baptist knows that God made Adam & Eve (not Adam & Steve); - & that the snake tricked them into eating the apple! Bubba don't know sh1t! But the SBC is churning Bubba's out of their seminaries by the bushel- basket -as are almost every sect on the planet! What Bubba hasn't told anybody is that when he was 13 - his cousin Billy-Bob showed him how to "mass-ture-bayt" & they gave each other a helping-hand over the next year until God punished Billy-Bob by drowning him in the creek & sending him 'straight to hell' for being an unrepentant closet sod-oh-mite. Yup. Bubba's got his theology honed to a sharp edge (along the proverbial handle...that is). Bubba thinks God is a big, mean rule-making tyrant who drowns 14 year- olds for breaking 'the rules'. Every person in Bubba's church believes these things to various degrees & the entire Southern Baptist Convention teaches these things (albeit indirectly). Bubba may be an ignoramus ... but he's in a big crowd of them -- all "amen'n" themselves pats on their folly'd, religicated backs. Bubba's Bishop is from Westboro & every Sunday he preaches hot & heavy on some topic that gradually comes back around to 'God hating Fags' & while full of red-faced rage he cites olde English passages about "man laying with mankind as he lieth with a women -- they have commited an ABOMINATION & shall surely be put to death....". And he throws in a few parallel words like "Sodomite" & "Catamite" & being "Vomited out of the land...PRAISE THE LAWD!".... And Bubba nods, and applauds & hopes that nobody will ever know about him & Billy-Bob's secret meetings. Maybe if he talks about "SODOMITES" with enough venom in his voice - God will forgive him & look away when Bubba sees a boy he thinks is cute. Then one day: g0ys.org becomes a shared link. Suddenly, people are talking about things & seeing God in a new way. Someone suggests that God only makes rules to stop people from getting hurt, & AHEM: To stop them from hurting each other. And then they quote the Apostle Paul (page top). Then somebody else digs out the Bible study that proves by several textual analysis that under Moses-Law: there was only one lawful way to "lie with a woman" in a sexual sense and that Leviticus 20's prohibition was a specific commandment forbidding men from treating men as a woman -- meaning that men were forbidden to penetrate men. The point fleshed out: You can't rape a defeated enemy; & you can't emasculate a slave in that fashion; nor can you penetrate a fellow Hebrew! And anyone who OPENLY VIOLATES that commandment is to be put to death; & anyone who kills an aggressor attempting to rape in this way (be the defandant that same enemy, slave or countryman) is justified in the eyes of the law! And what happens among groups that indulge in that EXACT PRACTICE? Disease - spread like wildfire; - thru populations - like gangrene through the body (hence God's prohibition in the 1st place)! God doesn't cause the disease (it's why He forbid the activity in the first place)! The command was intended for LIFE & people who willfully violate it have committed a capital crime because of the devastating nature of the diseases the activity spreads! Imaging that: The Law makes sense & isn't some abstract rule for the sake of God's ego! This means what it means & not one jot more. The legal principle of "not going beyond what is written" (I Cor 4:6) ALWAYS APPLIES. Inclusio Unius Exclusio Alterius: What is not included within the precise definition of a statute is presumed excluded intentionally. It's how LAW works. CONCLUSION: Butt-phucking is a capital offense under Moses Law. Mutual masturbation, -isn't! In the eyes of Hebrew law: Adam & Steve (or David & Jonathan) can get naked with each other, exchange vows, sperma, property, oaths, execute estate transfers & adopt each other's family (And they did all these things). And if that isn't the full force of MARRIAGE, then how the HELL would you define it!? (Perhaps "Hetero-Sarkos"?...) "I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: Very pleasant hast thou been unto me: Thy love to me was wonderful, Passing the love of women." - David in song about Jonathan (2 Samuel 1:26) Guys loving other guys without ButtPhuck'n? You bet!

Oh I didn't mean to imply most gays were aitheists, I was refering more or less to gay guys who debunk theology as a tool to explain morality. As Far as Levitecus goes, it's basically null and void by Jesus dying. So to use Leviticus for more than a just a teachng tool to explain that laws have been constantly given to peopel by God as a way to protect them is the basis for even using Leviticus scriptures. More and more I'm seeing that promiscuity is the real cause/bane of disease and not the actual acts within a commited relationship. I've always said that unbiased logic always wins out (at least in my head) than biased logic or illogic. And currently I'm in a transition of some understandings. but isn't that the main point of these dicussions? To learn from each other so we can grow and grasp a better understanding. As far as myself goes, I would not want to think I'd had been the cause of someone fallign away from learning about God. Not to mention the simple fact that it's written that anyone who causes another stumble in finding God will be held accountable in some pretty severe ways. I guess I won't be seeing Jerry Fallwell or Benny Zinn or Pat Robertson up in heaven... clearly anyone who spouts out the trash they do are far from godly. Your right "I also feel that Jesus' message (as well as much of the prophets and so forth) were much more about love in action than law." That was indeed Jesus's message. Love works no ill. -Mike

I very much agree with you. Alot of peopel don't realize that the bible is actually a book of Law. God is described as the Lawgiver/Lawmaker and Judge. So I think the morality issue is important because by being morally correct... far difference from being Politically Correct there are stark differences in behavior both private and public within a person. I don't want the conversaion to be specifically about denouncing anal and all who practice it are evil, thats hardly fair to say. I do consider the Bible a book of law which should be followed as best you can, obviously we all fall short which is why God reads our hearts intent. We are not judged by our good deeds and works alone.... were told that much. I don't want anyone to think g0ys are anti-gay, were not in the least. There is alot more to the g0y site than just the dicussion of anal. Alot of exhaustive unbiased research went into creating the site. I say unbiased because it addresses issues for both heterosexuals and homosexuals. A point worth making... what if one day somoene came along and found text within the Bible that clearly without a shadow of a doubt condemned heterosexuals? Forge the Adam and Eve argument "Go Forth be Fruitful and and Multiply" was not a command, it was a blesing from God which many mistake. But thats not my point. Just stop and think for as long as you can, what if being straight was actually an abomination HYPOTHETICALLY ... think of how you would feel. Lonely? Lied to? Angry? Wouldn't you question how this was possible? Wouldn't you wonder why would God play such a mean trick on you. Why would he make you suffer so badly from the beginning at birth til you die? That's just a small measure of the day in the life of a same sex attracted person with a conscience. The whole argument of being a retardation or a mental disorder (a convient excuse the government made up and pressured doctors to go along with btw if anyone was wondering it was a total fabrication just as many studys today are government funded and total fabrications which say same sex attractions are unnatural and funny it's always hetrosexuals saying this) or even genetic defect for that matter are all FALSE. Were told that when you are reborn thru Christ spiritually that there is neither male nor female... well if there's no male or female then theres no sexual orientation either...gee here Jesus specifically says he does not care what your gender is and with no gender you have no orientation. further, by being reborn spiritually you will naturally desire morality which is consistent with Biblical commands. Another interesting point is the Leviticus chapters. When Christ died on the Cross they became obsolete, hence why it's called Old Testament. Did you know the original text when it speaks of a 144,000 it refers to men who have not know a woman? Specfically it says "defiled by" but I find that rather offensive and typical language for that time when women were considered property more or less. If we were to look at that more closely, what group of men does that sound like? GAY. Did you know Jesus spoke of three different types of Eunuchs? Did you know that Eunuch actually used to mean a gay man? Many think it means a castrated man. but thats not true. Jesus says there are those that are BORN Eunuchs (gay men), those who chose to live as Eunuchs (Jesus, Paul were self proclaimed Enuchs) and those who were made to be Eunuchs (Castration) How many people knew this? So g0ys are not anti-gay, I really wantto stress that. And I also think theres a huge difference in commenting on a loving couple who practices anal sex (I can agree to disagree on that subject lol) but let's be realistic, where the gay community is involved there is a huge amount of promiscuity. Does it not make sense to stop the activity which spreads disease, i.e., anal sex? More importantly, would it not be our moral responsibility to stop the idea that this is the ONLY way for two same sex inclined males to engage in sexual relations? This is really the most important because it's not true, ancient greeks knew this as well. Did you know it was a fine punishable by death to engage in anal sex in ancient greece? Contrary to popular belief the greeks were not some huge homosexual society. Anal sex in those times was used for two reasons that was acceptable. Male Prostitution and to degrade a fallen enemy. What betetr way to make a male enemy submit than to de-masculinize him, i.e, anal sex further i.e., male rape. So you see the gay community has taken age old customs and intergrated them into their society, claimed it's been an acceptable proactice when actually even in Biblical accounts it was used (King David's Army did it to fallen enemies) to de-masculinize men and or rape them. Typically only acceptable during times of war against enemy foes but now were lead to believe its a way to express love and compassion for another person? Again, it may seem like g0ys are judgemental but we don't believe we are. It's a VERY fine line admittedly and were definately not perfect but Jesus condemned several peopel and their acts and were told to emulate him. So we try and educate peopel in the truth of the matter vs. telling them it's ok and it's safe. Whew. You know it's interesting you say "Psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, the sacred bond of sex is a communion of equals." The gay community breaks it down in the following way... Top, Bottom, Verse. Active, Submissive. I don't see any equality in that. Yes, but I don't think it's for this reason. Even if there were no health connections, I think one would surely have to continue to say that it's immoral on other grounds. Psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, the sacred bond of sex is a communion of equals. It's the same reason sex with children is immoral. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A while back, I read something that struck such a chord of truth that I've posted the article & excerpts many on various systems. It has to do with an innocent minset among guys -- guys who have not been poisoned with "gay male culture" & the ASSociated stigmas. What you are about to read is the collective experience of many guys. Since the widespread proliferation of mass-media, - fewer guys are experiencing this paradigm because gay-stigmas have contaminated gentle male/male interactions with arse-play. However - there are still clusters of guys who can recall very similar experience to the following: "In 1960, I was 10-years-old and growing up in a working class environment where male homosexual activity was the rule, not the exception. Its predominant manifestation was "sex with equality," thus including mutual masturbation and oral sex, but not anal sex (Bagley, 1997, p. 183). The latter was not even thought about, except for eventually learning that passive anal sex was an activity engaged in by apparently degraded males who thought themselves to be like women, or were labeled as such because they were accepting the status of being anally penetrated. As for ourselves living in a world where effeminate males did not exist, our sexual activities with other males generally reflected our social relationships: most sex with one's best friend, and lesser sex with lesser friends. We also had girlfriends and knew what was to be done sexually with them as it was so well understood via having learned the word "######" and its clear meaning. This explains why even the thought of "f******" one's best friend was precluded: the activity or related desires was in violation of our equality based male bonding friendships. Sexual activity was also only a small part of our daily activities, and it was not an everyday activity although, at times, it was enjoyed more than once a day. As a young adult, I ventured into learning more about male homosexuality and encountered the Kinsey et al. (1948) study which contained data not at odds with my experiences (Note 3), nor with the similar experiences of my youngest brother who grew up in the same neighborhood. Although he did not engage in homosexual activity, when asked what our neighborhood was like in the 1970s, he explained the male homo-sex situation as follows: "You know, Pierre, when the tent was set up and most boys came to have a sleep-out, well, I was the only one not having sex" (Bagley, 1997, p. 185)." As explained: "Sex" in the above context was NOT anal. It wasn't even a thought. It is the large number of similar accounts & stories I have heard for years that was one of the primary forces behind forming g0ys.org (After all -- the guys with these stories rarely ever joined the "gay" community or let the accounts become generally known.) these interactions happened LOTS of time in lots of places with lots of guys and the irony is that the "GAY" community is almost totally oblivious to the reality of such encounters! Furthermore, most of the gay community seems unable to grasp the fact that it is considered - on a gut level - to be an abomination to masculinity -in general (for lack of a better term). The loud, queeny mouthpieces & penchant for gender-FRAUD has become an icon for debased male behavior. The gay male community is up to it's collective arse in arse-fetish (the VERY ACT instinctively shunned by regular guys who are warm on guys.). Within the same article, the following observation was noted: "In 1978, a major new experience involved the learning about so-called "gay-identified" males, many still being teenagers, and they often were gender nonconformable. As a rule, they had also grown up thinking themselves to be the only ones with homo-sex desires in their neighborhoods, their school, or even in their town or city. Their feelings of isolation had been extreme, resulting in their belief that male homosexuality was exceptionally rare, and many had grown up perceiving themselves to be "freaks." In recent books and papers dealing with gay youth, and on related internet pages, these stories are repeated, and similar life situations were highlighted in the Australian 'Here for Life' Youth Sexuality Project Final Report. The process of realising a same sex orientation, and either hiding this or being open, often results in: damaged self esteem; distancing from family and peers; attempts to avoid disclosure; distortion of nearly all relationships; increasing sense of isolation; and, sense of inferiority and self loathing. This sense of isolation and negative reinforcement has been shown to increase the incidence of mental health issues in young people, resulting in emotional disorders, self harm and suicide. (Goldfram et al. 1999) My own adolescent environment, however, precluded having such feelings because desires to have sex with other males, and engaging in such joyful activities, resulted only in knowing that I was part of a majority even if, as with masturbation, my sexual activities with other males were to be private acts (Note 4). It is also doubtful, given the information available from Ancient Greece, that adolescents boys of the period would have experienced self-hatred and isolation, with associated suicidal feelings, because they had love and sex desires for older males. If suicidal feeling existed, they would likely have been experienced by a male youth who was being ignored by all older males. Therefore, the reported exceptionally high rate of "suicide problems" for present-day males recognizing their same-gender sexual desires (males who often identify as gay or bisexual) may be a social construction intimately linked to another possible social construction: the increasing rarity of males reporting same-gender sexual desires and related sexual activity in the Western World. As Chauncey (1994) reports on the basis of the evidence: ...in important respects, the hetero-homosexual binarism, the sexual regime now hegemonic in American culture, is a stunningly recent creation (p. 13)." What has occurred is summarized by a message - a LIE - promoted by B0TH the Political/religious Reicht AND (say "and") the Straight AND Gay community itself. The LIE ASSerts that same-gender-attraction is a RARITY. This LIE has gained such a tremendous foothold because of the FILTH pushed about male/male relations by the Gay-male cummunity and the message reinforced by the Religious right with the LIE that the Scriptures forbid same-gender intimacy. (They do not forbid it. See: http://g0ys.org/newthang.htm for an EXHAUSTIVE analysis of said "Scriptures"). In the USA, it is not unusual for politicians to declare a "State of Emergency". Perhaps it's time to declare a "State of Stupidity". G0YS.org is the primary group confronting the general misinformation with a side-dish of whoop-ass for B0TH the political left & right. Our message is simple & known by far more 'normal' guys than those that inhabit everything gAy: "Men of good character don't butt-phuck other guys." The sideline message is that "The rectum is not a vagina & no amount of wishful thinking will turn an organ of excretion into something else." Men who live by those simple principles have been hooking up with each other since the beginning of time. However - it's only been the last 30+ years where gender-confusion & all the ASSpects of the enigma have been platformed with the general concept of same-gender attraction. This MISSCLASSIFICATION & the broadly spread message surrounding it has caused guys to believe that their affections for their peers mean that they're "gay" while they believe that "Gay guys = butt phucking". The devastation has yet to be quantified. The advent of the modern "gay-male" phenomina has been a push to get society to accept "anal-sex" as a norm. As a result, STI's like AIDS are exploding across the globe as men AND (say "and") WOMEN engage in that fetish & skew statistics 1000%-2000% in favor of pathogenesis. As media & politicians seem unable to seperate "gay sex" from "anal sex", -- ADDED to the warped politics of the social "accept any behavior" left: The globe in now getting what it DESERVES for turning our backs on moral principle - namely: "Don't do things that spread disease!" The g0ys solution: DisASSociate yourself from their NAME & legacy. loving another person has N0THING TO DO with some agenda to arse- phuck. However - because of the HUGE MONEY ASSociated with the LIE being pushed (See: http://g0ys.org/lyingfags.htm ), we find it unlikely that the current trend will be reversed anytime soon. Being the case: G0YS standing as a testimony against the political forces on both "sides" will disallow the excuse: "I never heard another perspective". If "JUSTICE" is a real thing -- then it must be what it is defined as. If it exists - but seems lacking in this world -- then it MUST BE ADMINISTERED BEYOND OUR PERCEPTUAL ACUITY. Got God?

Fred, You make a very good point. Why should it matter if a loving couple whether it be male or female based not engage in anal if they are in a monogomous relationship and at no risk to spreading hiv or getting it. This is where the g0ys research of theology shoots off from the gay accepting churches and the hetrosexual ones as well. g0ys believe it clearly states in the bible that same sex attractions are not wrong but specific acts which cause harm (the anus/rectum lining is very fragile) to a persons body is wrong. Were told to treat our bodies as temples. Further scriptures usually used to condemn "homosexual acts" (this is actually made up latin word) are actually speaking of temple prostitutes or worshipping fertility gods which was a common practice. I believe a popular one was B'aal which actually was satanic in origin. So you could in essense intepret that as anal sex being a form of satanic worship. I'm not saying thats what it is, I'm just saying Love works no ill. I think your right when you mention alot of scriptures do's and don't is in regards to being outside a committed relationship. Morality is very key in the Bible and expected of us at all times. In a committed relationship out of love, you don't have sexual promiscuity, and without that, there is no risk. Although someone mentioned sex with animals in previous post about it being completely safe. Sorry Syphilis came from men having sex with sheep. So animal sex/beastiality is rightly considered wrong.

Those are some very good points you mention about the g0y site. I can offer alil insight if you'd like as to the why's and hows. First, I'llpoint out that the majority of the gay community despises the g0y way of thought. most are self proclaimed atheists, so they totally debunk any scriptural logic or truth immediately. Second the focus of theology on the g0y site is to debunk the misintepretations of the Bible. Make no mistake thru careful reseach without an individual agenda you can find several mistranslations specfically aimed at same sex relations. It's not a gay or straight issue, it's a truth issue for g0ys trying to set the record straight, g0ys don't discriminate whe it comes to telling the truth. Let's face it, we all gravitate to beliefs and ideas and ways of life which we as individuals are comfortable with, thats normal. But it's more or less playing follow the leader. The average person does not actually do research on biblical scripture but takes the word of his/her pastor or priest or reverend. Clearly there is aproblem with this way of behaving as you don't actually LEARN anything you just recycle somoene elses interpretation and stateit as fact when clearly careful research shows this to not be true in regards to scriptures which let's face it, politics and greed of men have always played a significant role in religon, even in Jesus's day. There is no reference in the bible which condemns same sex relations. It's not wishful thinking of religious gays to think that. People talk about Adam and Eve alot, well Eve was pulled from Adam which means on a genetic level Adam was both Male and Female in the beginning (transgendered) We also know thru science that the male is the one who detemrines the sex of a child, not the female. So man has the ability to create both males and females, not the female. that speaks volumes about what Mans beginnings are. Further Adam was greated in God's image, both male and female before Eve was created. Many times Angels were described as neutral beings, male appearance but feminine qualities... ever wonder why? But I digress. g0ys are considered by the gay community to be homophobic, which is funny cause g0ys are self admitted same sex attracted males. So thats a lie but it suits the gay community to say g0ys are. The useof shocking images suits several purposes. It exposes the gay community for the filth it promotes (the shocking images are used to show sexual fetishes such as anal, sex toys, bondage, S&M, all truly perverse habits the gay community allows to be presented. for some reason they feel they should be excluded from being morally held accountable. If it's illegal for a hetero couple to engage in sex with animals then why should the gay community be allowed to? If it's illegal for a man to beat his wife, then why can the gay community promote sexual slavery and S&M and other violent sex acts? They shouldn't be, yet they claim they have a right to and that it's discrimination or your repressing their freedoms. That's just total BS. g0ys draw a sharp line between orientation and behavior. We rely on logic and facts thru exhuastive research that shows (although the government lowered the numbers to control what society learns, as they have always done for the "betterment" of society) g0ys feel that MANY MANY guys are same sex oriented and that it's only because of society's views and programming that guys are taught that any emotion from one guy to another is gay. Were not talking about sex here. Let's look at some odd things within society. Football. Smacking another guys butt is considered male bonding, part of the game (I know I played) why is it ok to smack another guys butt while playing sports? There are several pictures of well known athletes grabbing other guys crotches on the field and this is not considered gay. In europe men kiss, andits not considered gay. There are so many instances of men showing natural affection for one another. Doesthis mean they are all gay? No way. But it does show that when men are comfortable with each other, then certain boundaries are crossed without a second thought. In high school, guys run around grabbing each other in the crotch, or twacking each other in the crotch and running while their friend falls down clutching himself. This is what guys do. Guys check out each other in locker rooms, this is truth people, not fiction or wishful thinking, some guys aren't even aware they do it. Guys are made to shower opening with each other, while girls are given privacy...why is that? Just cause were guys were not suppose to care about being naked in front of other people? It's not an issue for me but for a majority of guys it is and also a majority of guys could care less being naked around their buddies. Guys growing up will often experiment with other male friends. Again, not wishful thinking, these are facts but that doesn't mean it's sexual. Men are sexual by nature, peopel who say masturbation is wrong or sinful are usually not men or if they are men they are repeating only what they've been conditioned to say. Men need release on a regular basis otherwise there is great pain involved or has anyone not heard the term "blueballs" it's not a myth I can assure you and it doesn't just come from being excited and then left to ones own devices. I know a guy in the Marines with me who went to medical for blueballs and the doctor told him to masturbate... he was froma extremely religious christian family which taught him this was wrong. So, g0ys do not advocate getting just any guy drunk to have sex with. We respect our friends immensely. The reference to alcohol your referring to is to help a guy relax. It also talks about foot massage which is universally known to relax a person to almost sheer bliss. Also in reference to this is the fact that it helps guys let their guard down. A g0y would not overstep himself and again your thinking gay terms where a guy gets another guy drunk and rapes him or has sex with him. A common joke about marines is whats the difference between a straight marine and gay one. A six pack. g0ys are bout opening up the mind of their fellow man to realize that it's perfectly natural in God's eyes and in nature for guys to be genuinely intimate with each other. That does not mean sex. The idea that guys being intimate with another guy is a gay idea, not a g0y one but it is one that g0ys would like to dispell. Further, since a g0y is usually very selective about his circle of friends, sometimes it takes YEARS to build up the trust, were not talking a casual friend who has not proved their friendship. We use David and Johnathan from the Bible as the model for true male friendship... whether you weant to believe they were lovers or not is beside the point (although any man whose heart is knitted with another and makes a covenant to God with the other guy, sure does seem like they were lovers but not in the GAY sense, in the g0y sense) they clearly had deep seeded love and respect for one another, they were willing to sacrifice their lives for one another and g0ys feel the same way about their male friends. Society witht he help of the gay community has made it so that guys can not show affection for another male without beign thought of as gay. Would you want that label if you as a guy or girl hugged your guy or girl friend? The stigmas associated witht eh gay community are at best repulsive. the gay community tells young guys just finding out their are attracted to other guys that you have to have anal sex. they have names for it all. The older guys tell the younger guys they have to be "bottoms" i.e., receivers. Manyof these guys have no clue or experience to know what to do but because their families have rejected them or they fear rejection they go where they think they are suppose to go (gay club, gay online chats etc) and they fall into the trap the gay community purpetuates. Now do I think all gay men are evil? haha clearly not. But the majority have bought a bad set of goods and are advertising them as great when clearly relaity says they aren't. Anal sex spreads hiv Condoms are not safe, they break 2% of the time Yet now kids are being educated in sex ed alternativelifestyles and that in regards to the gay lifestyle, two guys who are gay should have anal sex as thats the only way two gay men can have sexual relations. WTF? But the gay community is the one promoting this. So you tell me. Whose the problem. The g0ys who say respect yourself and your friends and fellow man and woman and here's why. OR The gay community which says hey anal sex is great, don't do it if you don't want to BUT it's so great and feels so good, specially if you use crystal meth and poppers...cause it makes you really horny so you can have tons of unprotected anal sex cause after you use crystal meth and poppers you don't care cause you've lost your ability to make sound judgements. Hmmm and they wonder why people don't like them? Again, this is not a blanket coverage for all gay men and women. But unfortunately the ones who are the nice ones who don't do these things, they do not get heard or represented at their PRIDE events... only the most outrageous get that honor. ======================================================= The problem is that this guy belives he MUST use shocking graphic pictures and sometimes offensive street terms for sexual acts or certain types of people that i believe very well. more often than not, offend BOTH liberal gays and straights as well as conservatives alike. While 'some' gay guys might like this approuch, i think the greater majority will end up thinking that one of their own is attacking their own community...kinda like how the fundamentalists call us "CULTS". A second issue with his site is while he lists some valid points medically and some interesting possible Scriptural views....He has this one page called, "But How Do You Know That he is Straight?" Where he tells step-by-step how gay guys can get their str8 buddies drunk so they can sexually take advantage of them and act like it was just all in fun. This not ethical. I mean if a str8 gay was to give this advice to other str8 guys on how to trick the female freinds they think are hot into sex...I think they'd call that date rape. So, while I acknoweldge his good points I see that his bad points and ideas counter act the positive. That was my take.

I myself am g0y and would be happy to answer any questions anyone has in regards to their way of thinking. It's great to see someone thats not same sex attracted at least giving us some credit for thinking outside the box.