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MOW

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Everything posted by MOW

  1. Hi everyone We're coming to the end of the Christmas season and it caused me to think about something .. In the Christmas pageants put on in church the angels are always played by girls. I attend a progressive church and the shepherds and wise men are usually mixed both girls and boys. The angels are always played by girls, even in my open and affirming church. I see angels as mythological beings but I find the role of gender assignment in mythology interesting. Has anyone who attends church noticed this or seen boys playing angels in nativity pageants? MO W
  2. I was wondering if any of the Liberal/Progressive Christians here do any thing special for Lent. I used to try to give up certain things,. but now I just try to add some positive behaviors. MOW
  3. I'm not sure when if happened ,but gradually over time I've lost all interest in football. I can't have conversations on Mondays about Sunday's games that other men are so excited about . I think it started when Dave Duerson commited suicide. He did so in such a manner that his brain could be studied. Recently another young man commited suicide at age 29. I used to spend Sundays after church watching the games ,but no longer. Does anyone else feel this way? MOW
  4. According to ESPN magazine Gary Player, age 77, does 1200 sit ups a day. Oh well. MOW
  5. I recently read Gardner's introduction and admired his honesty and candor . I noticed that most of the replies were from men over 60 . They talked about the need to downsize ,both livingspace as well as life expectations. How are things going for the over sixty crowd here ? What have you learned and what are your experiences? I've noticed, for myself, alternating between contentment and depression. The loss of physical power can be disturbing. I used to be able to do 50 pushups now I can barely do 15. I however refuse to take any testosterone or any of those other pills. Anyway , how is the over 60 life going? MOW
  6. I've been thinking of another take on the other thing the Gospel of John is known for, namely the "born again" statement. Perhaps there are other ways of being "born again". I'll give three examples. In a small biography of Karl Jung that I have,Jung tells the story of a church warden . The man was mean ,intolerant and rigid and from age 40 onward became even more fanatical and rigid. He became ,in Jung's words " a darkly lowering pillar of the church." Then suddenly,one night, at age 55 he sits up in bed and announces to his wife that he is just a"plain rascal".He then spends his final years in riotous living blowing through his fortune. An African American bishop, and protege of Oral Roberts ( I can't think of his name) one night while watching TV decides there's no such thing as hell. He starts preaching this to his congregation and is thrown out of the church. Despite this he refuses to budge ,starts his own church and now preaches universalism. A friend of mine's wife ,who grew up Evangelical, suddenly decided one day that she no longer believes in "original sin" "Born again" can perhaps have more than one meaning. Indeed I think someone on this forum said we can be "born again throughout our life. Mow
  7. I remember reading in a book by Ehrman ,that one of the reasons for connecting the OT to the NT was to make the newer "Christian " religion appear ancient. I think he stated that in Roman times (and perhaps still today) when it came to technology or military things,the new was valued. But when it came to religion the old was valued. In other words ,if this thing is truth, how come Socrates didn't know about it or Plato etc. I think Burton Mack in his book The Lost Gospel Of Q says they even changed the order of the OT books . In the Christian Bible the OT ends with Malachi predicting the return of Elijah.The NT begins after telling Mathew's birth account with John the Baptist preaching in the wilderness, like Elijah returning. This seems to make the OT flow onto the NT. Mack says that the Hebrew Bible without the NT ends with the book of Chronicles. I've never seen a Hebrew Bible so I have to take his word for that. MOW
  8. Off the top of my head I can think of "The Gospel of Thomas","The Gospel of Phillip" and ,"The Gospel of Mary Magdelene.The only one I have is The Gospel of Thomas . It's available at any bookstore. The other two are fragments ,I think. Mow
  9. Thanks Joseph, That a good interpretation. I guess one of the things PCs have a problem with is " no one comes to the Father except through me". I am sure there must be a way PCs can interpret that statement in a more progressive and inclusive way. MOW
  10. Joseph ,what, in your opinion is "The Word " i.e." In rhe beginning was the word"? Also "the living water" mentioned to the woman at the well? MOW
  11. MOW

    Barefoot Wines

    This topic is for the wine drinkers out there. Has anyone out there tried Barefoot Wines from California? I have had some reds(cabernet and merlot) but no whites. The price just seems to low i.e. 5 and 6 dollars a bottle) to be any good. MOW
  12. Hello everyone It's been awhile since I've posted. I was curious about pregressive Christian's take on the Gospel of John. It seems that Progressives tend to prefer the Synoptic Gospels and Consevatives like the Gospel of John more. Does this seem true? MOW
  13. You can elaborate on all three MOW
  14. I want to say at the outset that I am NOT a vegetarian but was curious if any one else here is. Two of my relatives recently became vegetarians and swear by it. Curiously I have two friends who are the exact opposite. I guess you would call them carnivores. One is a musician who does not eat any vegetables at all. The other is an older man who used to go to my church. He said as soon as he left his mother's house he stopped eating vegetables. I basically just try to eat variety of things ("temperence in all things"). Anybody here a vegetarian? MOW
  15. OK here's one I heard recently. A couple in their early sixties were at a restaurant celebrating 40 years of marriage . All of a sudden a fairy appears at the table and says," In honor of your 40 years commitment to each other I'll grant each of you one wish". The woman says" I want to sail around the world with my wonderful husband". Immediatly two tickets on a luxury ocean liner appeared in her hand. The fairy and the woman turned to the man who says "That's all very romantic, but I wish for a wife 30 years younger than myself . The woman and the fairy looked at each other . The fairy waved her wand and the man instantly became 92 years old. MOW
  16. You're welcome Jen. How about one more I heard at church. A minister wanted the older members of the congregation to start thinking more about the "hereafter". He spoke to one senior sister and said"You all need to start thinking about the hereafter". The women replied "Reverend, I 'm always thinking about the hereafter. Whenever I go into a room I'm thinking "What am I here after." MOW
  17. OK Here's one I've heard recently. What's the difference between a blues musician and a jazz musician? A blues musician plays three chords for a thousand people, a jazz musician plays a thousand chords for three people . I know some people might not like that joke but I thought it was kind of funny. MOW
  18. Hello darby Flow pretty much summed up my feelings in an earlier post. I took great pains to describe the Straw Man logic fallacy. I gave an example of what it was . I carefully explained why I thought DCJ was commiting it . The Straw Man fallacy is an invalid form of logic, whether its used by liberals or conservatives. But its like you didn't hear it . You never mentioned it in your post and just assumed I was just taking her side. I'm heterosexual myself, but I have a relative who is gay. As you may know I'm a musician who, in addition to working for the church, have many years playing in musical theatre and for dance companies. Needless to say I know many gay people . In addition to them I know that Tschaikowski, Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, Billy Strayhorn, Charles Griffes etc. are not "abominations". You ask how we could be offended personally by someone's ideas. It's not us personally that's offended ,but they are attacking people we love and respect ;and we know what they are saying is untrue. Suppose your Muslim acquaintence was more than that ,and was a friend. How would you like it if some conservative called him a "terrorist' . You wouldn't just stand there and say"well that's just his opinion". It's also true ,in a different reality (if you had been born in another country perhaps) you could be the Muslim and he could be the Christian. MOW
  19. Agreed Flow . DCJ , you've commited the logic fallacy of "straw man " when you did what you did in your post. The straw man logic fallacy is based on the image of someone in a fight with a large man . Unable to beat the large man, the opponent constructs a man of straw and proceeds to pulverize it and then claim victory , meanwhile the real man is untouched. For example ,you claim that October said that"your an abomination". actually what she said was "So is mixing two kind of fabrics. You might want to check your labels. Your an abomination. Don't forget gluttony and gossip. I don't see you running around telling fat people they are going to hell. " This was in response to your saying that the Bible says that homosexuality is an "abomination". Well the Bible says a lot of things are abominations like mixing fabrics, women who are menstruating being seen in public , working on the Sabbath, etc.. She was showing the inconsistancy of your logic and clearly bested you in the argument. So you resorted to taking one tiny quote ,out of context , and change the subject thus committing the straw man fallacy. MOW
  20. I don't know if the administration is aware of it but we seem to have had a spam attack over the weekend, some of it pornographic in nature. Please remove it as soon as possible. MOW
  21. OK October, What logical fallacy is James commiting here . i.e. If you're against the Iraq War you must be against all war. It took a war to get rid of Hitler. Therefore if you're against Iraq war you would have been for Hitler. I think it's either Ad Hominam(circumstantial) , or the Equivalency Fallacy( i.e Shaqille O'Neil is tall. Mount Everest is tall . Therefore Shaquille O'Neil is the same height as Mount Everest because they're both tall.) I think you said ,one time, that you were big on logical fallacies, and knew their names. MOW
  22. Good points October. One of my favorite books is "The Harlot at the side of the Road" by Jonathan Kirsch. Its a book by a Jewish writer that deals with the so-called "dirty" stories found in the Old Testament. In the chapter on "Sodom and Gommorah" he retells the whole story from the point of view of Lot's daughters. When Lot goes to the door and attempts to placate the mob by offering his own daughters to be gang raped ,he doesn't come off as righteous, in this version. It's interesting that conservatives/fundamentalists who are so outraged by the men of Sodom's actions don't seem as bothered by Lot's incest with his daughters. Joanathan Kirsch concludes the chapter with the image of Lot ,blind drunk, in sexual intercourse with the very daughters he had offered to the mob. MOW
  23. Great post October !! If I may add a little humour , I remember another incident in scripture reading at the same church. It was Heritage Sunday at the UMC church where I was playing. This sunday honors the day when John Wesley said "his heart was strangely warmed". To commemorate this , they decided to read the passage in Acts where Saul/Paul is struck blind by the light on his way to Demascus. Since it was Heritage Sunday, they read everything in the Old King James Version . The problem was that in that passage (in the KJV) Jesus says to Paul" I am Jesus who thou persecuteth. It is a hard thing for thee to kick against the pricks." The woman who was to read that passage was the oldest member of the congregation; a woman in her mid eighties. I knew that passage was coming and I was wondering what would happen. When she got to the phrase "kick against the pricks" her voice dropped to an almost inaudible level and she paused ,kind of stunned and then rushed to the end of the scripture. She was an excellent reader ,so I imagine she had not read the scripture before going into the pulpit. BTW " kick against the pricks" is a euphemism which (I think) means to go against your own nature ,or to fight against the inevitable. The image is of a horse being stuck with a sharp object to make it go faster,and the horse kicking back at the sharp instrument (pricks) making the situation worse. MOW
  24. I just had to post this. I was sitting in my living room at the computer. The television was on . All of a sudden a Pepsi commercial comes on that says "Want free gas?.....drink Pepsi " Didn't whoever wrote that commercial ,think about what they were implying?? MOW
  25. Des , I honestly don't know what fundmentalists and Biblical literalists do with Mark 16: 17-18. Perhaps (and I'm guessing here) "picking up snakes and drinking poison" could be euphemisms for surviving a dangerous or deadly situation in life. It just seems to me that Mark should properly end at chapter 16: 8 with the empty tomb. The verses following that are IMO just additions by a later writer to provide some after ressurection stories in Mark . The post ressurection stories in Matthew, Luke and especially John, just seem more meaningful, regardless if one sees them as mythological or not. MOW
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