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Seminarian

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Everything posted by Seminarian

  1. I have a BIG problem with saying that only humans have eternal significance. I just don't get that at all. Upon what can we base this anthropocentrism besides pure egocentricity and a wish? Such anthropocentrism is precisely what has led us to destroy the natural environment and to treat our fellow creatures with horrific cruelty. We've got to expand our theological thinking beyond ourselves to consider all life on the planet... and even the cosmos.
  2. I think all of the answers put forth are good. Simply using "God" in place of all pronouns works. If, however, you want to use pronouns, alternate between "she" and "he," perhaps also slipping in "it" ... and even "they"? The problem is that if we only use "he" and "she," it becomes too easy to anthropomorphize God, thinking of her as just like a person only bigger... and hermaphroditic. I personally do think of God more like an "it." More just like the power of love itself. But I think that using a full range of pronouns will serve to challenge us all to constantly expand our imaginations. The more we can expand our vision of the divine, the better, I suppose.
  3. Seeking, I see a lot of people above all responding to your question with book titles. I think this is wonderful. Books really do make a difference and I think they've recommended some great ones. But books are no substitute for relationships. I think the best way to recover from fundamentalism is through a supportive community or at least some supportive friendships. Ideally, this would be friendships with people where you live. If you really don't think you can find anyone like yourself where you live, then I hope you will continue to turn to me and the other folks on this board for support. I think we all want to be able to help. So keep us posted on how things are going for you.
  4. North, I did CPE this summer. It was a great experience. I learned a lot and I have been considering chaplaincy as a possible career option. We'll see.
  5. Great question. I have long lamented the lack of a liberal religious voice on TV or radio. And, given the overwhelming power of media in today's world, it is no wonder that fundamentalism, with its tremendous media presence, is ascendant. And I'm sorry I have NO resources to contribute to this discussion.
  6. Des, the St. Pauls UCC I know of in Chicago is in Lincoln Park. I think the parallel to women is right on target. I think gay ordination is about at the same place that women's ordination was a generation ago. I do think the options open up the more willing one is to relocate. My partner has just started a new job a few months ago that is working out really well, so he is not feeling too eager to relocate. So I will be trying to find something to do nearby... and this leads me to North's point. I may be looking at chaplaincy or maybe pastoral counseling. Although not military chaplaincy. The ban on gay folks extends to their chaplains as well. I checked out the Independent Catholics link. It looked very interesting and I'm always interested to learn more about groups working on the more progressive end of the spectrum, but I'll probably stick with the UCC. Oh, and thanks for the reading tip, too.
  7. Hey, thanks to everyone for this great discussion. I really appreciate everyone's comments and insights. I feel really supported by you all. Des, I've visited both Wellington and St. Pauls. I think they're both great churches in different ways. Wellington is much more progressive on social/political issues, yes, but I wouldn't go so far as to call St. Pauls "conservative." Anarchist, I think you've probably got a good point about the reputation of CTS. People probably will expect that they're getting someone on the liberal to progressive to radical end of things as soon as they see where I've gone to school. I wouldn't say my views have done any super radical shift since I've started studying, but I have started to struggle more as I've progressed with figuring out how to communicate with people who are much more literal than I am. As far as my "true views," they're pretty well represented by the 8 points of TCPC as a starting point. And just in general, I do not take much of anything in the Bible "literally." Thanks for the encouragement on NCD. I could see doing it at some point, but not immediately after graduating from school and getting ordained. That just feels a little too overwhelming to me. Fred, I hope you have some wonderful conversations with your new pastor. As to your Spong v. Borg thing, I really like them both a lot. Clearly Spong is the more radical of the two. Change movements need to have a range of views. Lily, I think you're right about the archetypal aspects of my situation. Even though I've been focusing on myself, I also know that many of my classmates are also on the theologically progressive end of things and will struggle with the same issues. I do think the situation gets compounded by being gay, though. Despite all the advances on gay issues in the UCC, I don't know very many glbt pastors serving churches, at least here in Chicago. So I worry that for many churches, I have three strikes as a gay man, as a political/social progressive and as a theological progressive.
  8. Cynthia, thanks for the Borg link. I'm a fan too. Yes, I live in Chicago in Hyde Park, which is also where I go to school at Chicago Theological Seminary. I don't know anything about the church in Crystal Lake. My partner and I are actually still church shopping in Chicago and have visited a number of different UCC churches, mostly in the city.
  9. Progressive churches in Dallas? I really don't know, but here is a list of churches that are gay-friendly in Dallas. There is some correlation between a church's stance on sexual orientation issues and its stance on other progressive issues. (No guarantees)... Midway Hills Christian Church Dallas Disciples of Christ Church of the Transfiguration Dallas Episcopal St. Michael and All Angels Dallas Episcopal St. Thomas the Apostle Dallas Episcopal Bethany Presbyterian Church Dallas Presbyterian Trinity Presbyterian Dallas Presbyterian Westminster Presbyterian Dallas Presbyterian First Community Church, UCC Dallas UCC Casa View UMC Dallas UMC Northaven UMC Dallas UMC I don't know whether you are gay. (I am.) I doubt most of these churches are predominantly gay/lesbian, but they have all publicly welcomed glbt folks.
  10. Oh and Des, you're exactly right about the unbelievable variety of UCC churches. I live in Chicago and it's a perfect example of what you're talking about. The churches here are a wild range of worship styles and theological perspectives and ethnicities. Keeps it interesting.
  11. Yeah, I think your denomination is roughly a Canadian parallel to our UCC. Even the same initials. And similarly, I think our clergy are often more progressive than the laity. I can be respectful of other people's beliefs. I just want to be in an environment where I can be pretty honest about my own. I don't want to get into any sort of game of pretending to be more traditional than I am in order to make other people happy. I was pointing to Spong as a model because he is actually a clergy person. As far as I know, Borg is not.
  12. I've never read it, but there was a controversy last year when Bible scholar John Henson released his own translation of the Bible, which he called Good As New: A Radical Retelling of Scriptures. I don't know if it's any good at all, but it is supposedly a more "liberal" type translation. Plus it was endorsed by the Archbishop of Canterbury.
  13. Right. I guess I feel connect to a denomination with a bit more of a "center" in terms of myth and ritual than the UUA, but without any requirement that I subscribe to creedal beliefs. So I don't feel entirely at home on either side of this denominational divide. I'm not necessarily expecting the UCC to throw off its conservative constituency altogether, but I just know that that is not the constituency I would be best suited to do ministry with. No, I don't believe I can represent a TYPICAL mainline denomination with real integrity. But I still harbor the hope that there might be a place for me to do ministry somewhere a little closer to the margins. Maybe it is just a "cool fantasy," in which case I need to come up with a plan B, but I do know that such churches are out there. If John Spong could become a bishop, who is to say that we heretics can't find a place? Thanks for the reply.
  14. Hi, I'm a UCC seminary student entering my third and final year. I was reading people like Spong and Borg and Carter Heyward before I went to seminary and was excited by the idea of being part of the progressive Christianity movement. The seminary has certainly been a supportive environment for exploring these ideas, but I'm worried about ordination and employment now. It seems that even in the supposedly "progressive" UCC, a lot of old-fashioned theological/christological ideas are still the norm. I for one can't subscribe to any of the traditional creedal beliefs, but I draw from some of the basic wisdom of the Christian tradition. I worry that I will have to compromise my true views in order to maintain employment. I am afraid that it is hard to get a position at the most progressive congregations within the denomination. My pastor is a TCPC type and has been very encouraging. (She was at the Re-imagining Conference.) She thinks I should start a church from scratch, which to me doesn't seem like a realistic idea at all. I've thought about making a break for the UUA. (I used to belong to a UU church.) But this isn't my preference. Thoughts? Ideas? Encouragement? I'm especially interested to hear mentor-ly advice from clergy people. Grace and Peace.
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