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trek42

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  1. Thanks, des. I live near Dallas, Texas. I know of no progressive churches in my area. Of course, I don't think most progressive churches say, "We are progressive." Maybe they do, I don't know. I know that every church in my area is convinced it is the right one and on their way to heaven. Thanks for the advice on the "no's" and the "yes's". Right now so much is being deconstructed that I am not sure what will be left. Maybe just the dust that I am anyway. Anyhow, I wasn't being literal about "12-Steps", just seeking some input as to how others have made similar journeys. I'm daring enough to think that I am not the first to let go of one trapeze without knowing that another is right there for me to grab onto. I know just enough to know that the former trapeze no longer felt safe. What the next one will look like or when it will arrive, I know not. But I suppose that is the way of faity, huh? - bill
  2. Sorry, des, I guess that came out wrong. From a fundamentalist point of view, liberals do seem to be more lax on standards than the fundies are (inclusion of women in the ministry, acceptance of homosexuals, etc.). I do read enough liberal material to know that there are standards, so please allow me to rephrase: the lines are not drawn in the same places or as sharply as the fundies draw them. - trek
  3. I'm really struggling with my fundamentalist roots. There was alot of security in the system of biblical inerrancy and infallibility. While I wasn't really free to question some things that I have questioned, the fundamentalist mindset did offer a stability to my belief system that I now lack. I wander the wastelands between considering stuff from the Jesus Seminar (where perhaps 10 percent of the gospels are the words of Jesus) to liberal Christianity (where there seem to be no standards) back to conservative views (where every word in the bible was God's word). This is a rough place to be. The freedom is often exhilarating. But it is also quite scary because there is no one to act as a guide. So I was wondering, if you could design a 12-Step Course for former fundamentalists who still find the example and teachings of Jesus meaningful, what would you include in the course? What would you recommend to those who want to leave fundamentalism but who don't want to leave Christianity completely? - trek
  4. Good thoughts, Des. The drive to KISS (keep it simple, stupid) is a strong one in a culture where everything is so complicated. OTOH, Christianity has always sought to distill its beliefs down to a common creed or a common confession. To me, that brings up an interesting point. What does it mean to be "Christian" (including the "plain ol' Christian")? On one hand, the conservatives support that being a Christian means adhering to a creed or a doctrinal list. In that sense, the definition of "Christian" means a set of beliefs that we hold to that may (or may not) influence how we act. I suppose this sort of Christianity is more Pauline in nature and theology. OTOH, the liberals support that being a Christian means doing what Jesus did, having Him as our example of compassion. In that sense, the definition of "Christian" is not necessarily a common set of beliefs that we acknowledge with our heads, but, rather, actions which flow from a changed heart. I suspect this sort of Christianity is more Christocentric in nature and theology. So, is being a Christian more about what one believes or about what one does? Is there a difference? Should there be? (BTW, these are the questions that I am try to sort through in my own journey at this point. I still call myself a Christian though the title is a big turnoff for most of the people that I interface with day after day. They see "being a Christian" as being a conservative, bible-believing, turn-or-burn, evangelical, fundamentalist. I have been that. But I no longer wish to be. If I had to choose between being more Pauline or Christ-centered, I'd go with Jesus. OTOH, I hope to find a way of reconciling the two. ) To play the other side, it would be interesting to attempt to come up with a list of "What Do All Christians Do?" But, there again, we would probably see as many differences and similarities as we have with what Christians believe. Any thoughts? -Bill
  5. Many progressive Christians seem to believe that everyone will eventually come to know God, that this is what God Himself desires and His plan for humanity. Jesus had a number of things to say of "eternal" life and "eternal" punishment. What are your thoughts on Jesus' teachings on hell? Can these teachings be interpreted through a progressive filter? trek
  6. BTW, if anyone here is interested in going through THOC by Borg via chapter-by-chapter format, I am starting a new group here: http://s11.invisionfree.com/LightReading/ If there is enough interest, we can discuss other progressive books also. trek
  7. Borg mentions, in most of his books, a concept that he calls "thin places." These are, if I understand correctly, places or experiences where the "barrier" that separates us from the divine is very thin and we can experience something of the Spirit in the now. I guess you might call it a mystic experience. Have any of you had "thin places" in your journey? If you did, did they just happen or is there something that you can do that makes such experiences more accessible? I've been a Christian for 33 years but have never experienced anything that I would call "supernatural", out-of-the-body, a sensing of God that was completely unexplainable through natural means, a mystic encounter, or a "proof" of God's presence with me that I could rely on no matter how I felt about religion or the bible. What have been your experiences of "thin places?" Were you seeking them? Are they still as unexplainable now as they were when you first experienced them? trek
  8. Hiya, Theo-Maniac. For whatever it is worth, if you are looking for a good introductory commentary from a progressive Christian viewpoint, you probably couldn't do much better than to read "The Heart of Christianity" by Marcus Borg. Although it is definately not a study bible, I think Borg does an excellent job of distilling the central truths of what it means to be a Christian (for old ones or new ones alike). One advantage of this approach is that it will give you a good understanding of what Jesus taught and what He means to Christians BEFORE you get into a "study bible" that tries to compartmentalize all the different doctrines and teachings of the bible. Study bibles can be helpful but they can also get very confusing because most follow an exegetical format and it makes it difficult to find the "big picture." Borg's book could maybe help you to see the big picture before getting bogged down in a verse-by-verse commentary. Hope this helps you. I wish I had found this sort of "free-thinking, actually-making-sense Christianity" when I was a new believer. trek
  9. Hi folks, I've read Borg's book "THOC" and it has greatly encouraged me in my faith in moving more progressive in my Christianity. As to his comments on prayer, I, too, am a little puzzled as to how he sees intercessory prayer. One of the things that I really appreciate, though, is his ability to offer a new perception on something that I have often taken for granted. Take his comment on spirituality for example: "Spirituality is paying attention to our relationship to God." What a wonderfully simple explanation that goes so much further than praying the Prayer of Jabez, finding a Purpose Driven Life, or asking perpetually, "What Would Jesus Do?" Christianity has made spirituality so complicated. Similarly, I appreciate the concept that prayer is a variety of ways that we pay attention to God. Whenever I am concentrating on Him, that, I believe, is a form of prayer -- it is God and I in communion. As to intercessory, Borg doesn't believe in an intervening God. Yet he still seems to pray in a manner that is asking God to do something. Maybe such requests are more acknowledgements of "thin places" or the unity we have with all other Christians rather than trying to get God to show up in our circumstances. The bottom line for me, new as I am to PC, is that I am undecided as to what form my prayers should take while still being convinced that prayer is part of what it means to know God. At this stage in my faith quest, I don't try to get God to do anything. I ask, but maybe because my asking, rather than getting God to show up, simply reminds me of my place in the overall scheme of things. trek
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