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Kellerman

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Kellerman last won the day on April 14

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  1. Exactly. That's sort of my point. You *can't* really read the Bible literally. The people who claim to do so are actually being taught an interpretation of the Bible and then being sold on the concept of that interpretation being literal. If I took a person who had no exposure to Christianity, gave them a Bible, and asked them to interpret it, there's no way they would come up with the same "literal" interpretations as most of the churches that claim literalism. It's ideology, plain and simple.
  2. Funny, I was just mentioning this in another thread, but I find this type of Bible worship to be a pretty blatant form of idolatry. It's a book, written, edited, and translated along the way by humans. That would require the belief that God directly wrote through the hands of every writer, editor, and translator of the Bible. Also, how does it account for the multiple different versions? Changing words does change meanings, also the meanings of words changes over time. So even if it does stay perfectly the same, then those words read 100 years ago can literally mean something
  3. I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but based on what you quoted, yes, all religious interpretation is human, made up by people, and deeply affected by context. Truth is never permanent. You need both facts and context to ascertain any degree of truth, and understanding of both tend to erode over time. Is the story of David and Goliath about a small man standing up to a giant, or is it about an expert marksman basically bringing a gun to a knife fight? Depends on the facts and the context. The story is just a short, and there's rarely one reasonable interpretation of any stor
  4. Lol, even people who claim to "take the Bible literally" only pick and choose what to take literally and how to interpret it "literally". I written text had one way to be interpreted, as wouldn't have lawyers. So even things that are meant to be taken literally are up for interpretation, and debated at the highest levels of subject matter experts, and even then, they often disagree. AND, their meanings change over time. So anyone who thinks that the Bible is "facts" and that that entitles them to be the arbiters of truth as to how other people should behave, well, they're jus
  5. Well, for one, I don't give much thought to an after-life, because linear time is a human perceptual experience. I also don't think that human consciousness can necessarily grasp all that much, so I just accept what I cannot understand, including meaning. What I can grasp though is that very happy people don't tend to worry too much about the meaning of their lives. So I focus more on being a happy, thriving person than fussing too much about what I'm "supposed" to do. I feel happier and more comfortable with my own existence the more I feel compassionate for all people. The
  6. I don't understand the purpose of this? There are a lot of Christians on this site who find a lot of value in the Bible. I have huge issues with how many Christians use the Bible as a justification for abusing others. I despise the oppression that has happened in the name of the church. That doesn't mean I hate the Bible.
  7. What do I believe in? I believe that every single human being deserves love and compassion from every other human being. I believe that that's the main message from Jesus. The more connected each of us feels to all others, the more we can tap in to the compassion that allows us to love even those who hurt us. That's why I don't pray to God as a discrete, superior being. That's not how I conceptualize the divine, which is why I don't talk in my prayers. My concept of God or divinity is aligned with parts of many different religions and forms of spirituality. I identify wi
  8. Yeah, that doesn't sound like a healthy place to participate. A lot of communities on the internet aren't. It's not unusual for Internet communities to be echo chambers of toxicity, but it seems like people expect better of a Christian forum, because, well, Christianity, but unfortunately, that's not how humans work. I find it embarrassing for these people that this is what they spend their energy on. There's absolutely nothing about Christianity that obliges anyone to be bigoted and hateful. These are just bigoted, hateful people using religion as a justification for their bigotry
  9. Funny you mention Catholics, because I'm from a French Catholic area, and a lot of them take it pretty seriously that Pope JP2 said that hell wasn't a place, but the consequence of sin itself, a state of separating oneself from God. There's a big difference between how a child is taught about the concept of sin for themselves vs how the church is used as a tool of oppression against those who are different. I've met ultra conservative Orthodox Greek Christian leaders with extremely regressive social values, but who taught their own congregants a very compassionate version of sin, w
  10. I wonder if this is a global Christian thing or particular to certain sects or regions or cultures. I participated in two churches as a kid and the atrocious evangelical church in my hometown definitely taught that we kids should feel extreme shame about sin, but the Anglican Church taught us none of that, and the United Church ministers I know don't teach that.
  11. See, for me, I wrapped my mind around "sin" as being a fundamental human capacity for destructive behaviour, of which we are all capable. I worked with children for years, they are capable of incredible cruelty. We all are. So if I conceptualize that we are "born with sin" meaning we are all born with the capacity for cruelty, destruction, etc, then I'm actually pretty okay with teaching young children about being born with sin. It's pairs with the concept that none of us are perfect. If sin is the thing that is imperfect in us, then it's something that we can know about ourse
  12. I lived on a farm as a kid, you couldn't pay me enough to go back.
  13. I wasn't raised Christian, but I was exposed to a few wildly different sects of Christianity and the main impression I got was that there a lot of ways to interpret this whole Christianity thing. I think the biggest change I went through was a re-interpretation of sin. I always cringed at the notion that we're all "bad" and need to ask forgiveness to be accepted into the exclusive Jesus-club in the after life. I was like "eff that", I left home as a teenager, there was no way I was subscribing to a father figure who was telling me I fundamentally wasn't good enough and that o
  14. As I said, I must have misinterpreted. I've gone back and reread and see where I made my mistake. I'm on my phone and sometimes read too quickly. I did misread your initial post to imply that you *did* believe that Christianity was responsible. My bad. Very sloppy comprehension on my part.
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