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Kellerman last won the day on February 10

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About Kellerman

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  1. Funny you mention Catholics, because I'm from a French Catholic area, and a lot of them take it pretty seriously that Pope JP2 said that hell wasn't a place, but the consequence of sin itself, a state of separating oneself from God. There's a big difference between how a child is taught about the concept of sin for themselves vs how the church is used as a tool of oppression against those who are different. I've met ultra conservative Orthodox Greek Christian leaders with extremely regressive social values, but who taught their own congregants a very compassionate version of sin, w
  2. I wonder if this is a global Christian thing or particular to certain sects or regions or cultures. I participated in two churches as a kid and the atrocious evangelical church in my hometown definitely taught that we kids should feel extreme shame about sin, but the Anglican Church taught us none of that, and the United Church ministers I know don't teach that.
  3. See, for me, I wrapped my mind around "sin" as being a fundamental human capacity for destructive behaviour, of which we are all capable. I worked with children for years, they are capable of incredible cruelty. We all are. So if I conceptualize that we are "born with sin" meaning we are all born with the capacity for cruelty, destruction, etc, then I'm actually pretty okay with teaching young children about being born with sin. It's pairs with the concept that none of us are perfect. If sin is the thing that is imperfect in us, then it's something that we can know about ourse
  4. I lived on a farm as a kid, you couldn't pay me enough to go back.
  5. I wasn't raised Christian, but I was exposed to a few wildly different sects of Christianity and the main impression I got was that there a lot of ways to interpret this whole Christianity thing. I think the biggest change I went through was a re-interpretation of sin. I always cringed at the notion that we're all "bad" and need to ask forgiveness to be accepted into the exclusive Jesus-club in the after life. I was like "eff that", I left home as a teenager, there was no way I was subscribing to a father figure who was telling me I fundamentally wasn't good enough and that o
  6. As I said, I must have misinterpreted. I've gone back and reread and see where I made my mistake. I'm on my phone and sometimes read too quickly. I did misread your initial post to imply that you *did* believe that Christianity was responsible. My bad. Very sloppy comprehension on my part.
  7. PaulS, your recent answers seem incongruous with your previous posts that seemed to suggest that you *did* think that Christianity was somehow uniquely necessary or qualified to enlighten people, or something to that effect. I'm now really confused by your answers to my latest comments, so obviously I misinterpreted something along the way.
  8. Totally agree. The question about whether or not Christianity caused the conquest and colonialism doesn't really resonate with me though, as in all of the history I've read, the powers that be that colonized were rarely very pious in their Christianity, and conflicts between kings and the church were rampant. Christianity and Islam are, however, tremendous tools of social oppression, which we still see so obviously in the US. So I can absolutely see how having that tool could have catalyzed/facilitated the process. You nailed it, this concept of a superior diety instead of the univer
  9. K, but the Inuit do know God. They have a deep sense of the divine and value connectedness with it. It's not like other cultures are walking around ignorant of the divine. They just don't subscribe to the particularly Christian doctrine version of it. From my perspective, there's divinity, and there are ways to understand it. Christianity is one way to try and understand it, which can be in itself interpreted in so many different ways. There isn't even a consistent "Christianity" out there. So if there are wildly different belief systems calling themselves "Christian", then h
  10. Do you not see how other religions and world views could impart the same positive values as Christianity? Do you truly believe that only Christianity promotes love and respect for human kind?
  11. Most cultures haven't benefitted from Christianity, because the spread of Christianity was largely through conquest and colonialism. You can't separate the religion from its cultural and anthropological history, and Christianity has a horrific track record. Also, these weren't "minor" cultures, these were the dominant cultures in these areas in the past, and European settlers murdered and oppressed them into either total non-existence or minority status. The legacy of the Christian church in the world is not a humane one, and certainly not one any of us should be proud of.
  12. Uh...I don't think so. I've mentioned a few times that I study a lot of Indigenous culture and spirituality and that pre-exists Christianity by tens of thousands of years and preaches some of the most beautiful beliefs I've ever seen in an extant civilization: gender equality, respect for gender non binary, equal respect for nature as there is for humans because humans are just part of nature, children viewed as gifts, elders respected, restorative justice, etc, etc, etc. Of course these myriad variety of cultures aren't a monolith either, just as Christianity isn't, but none of th
  13. I will never disagree with that. As I said, I'm quite fond of my people on many fronts.
  14. Ehhh...Nordic people in Nordic countries might be on average happy, but they're also pretty well known for their racism and insular sense of culture. So I'm not convinced by this argument. Also, there are Christian societies all over the world. I mean, there's a reason so many clergy in North America are starting to come from South America. It's the fastest growing religion in China. There are tons of Christians in Africa, and do you know where the fastest rate of growth of Christians is in the entire world?? Iran. So I'm not convinced that Christianity around the world has become
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