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Burl

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Posts posted by Burl

  1. On 11/5/2020 at 6:20 PM, LRT Jr said:

    Do you believe Christian teaching that Hell is a reality is an essential doctrine that is fundamental to Christian theology — that it is, indeed, a place of eternal suffering and punishment?  Or, could the existence of Hell be a reality that has a purpose other than punitive?

    A close reading of the Christian bible reveals that hell  itself is eternal, but nothing about eternal suffering and punishment.  That idea comes from Dante and Bosch.

    Think of the biblical idea of hell as an eternal incinerator where souls not fit for purpose are denied resurrection and eternal life.

    This is not unlike the the Oriental concept of imperfect souls being destroyed and reincarnated on a wheel of karma until they reach a state of perfection.  This general theme has some support in the common biblical metaphor of ‘The refiner’s fire.’

  2. 9 hours ago, irreverance said:

    Thanks @BurlThe Unseen Realm looks very interesting. Academic biblical studies used to be more of a focus of mine. 

    Heiser’s exegesis centers around God being unique, but creating and governing with a divine council.  

    Heiser also shows how the Hebrew word elohim is the class of all supernatural beings.  Angels, demons, ghosts etc. are all elohim.  God is an elohim, but other elohim are not God.

    Not an expensive book either.

     

  3. 3 hours ago, irreverance said:

    I have a pretty good theological library...but I haven't added anything significant to it for about a decade. Yeah, "slacker". That' me. Bottom line: I used to be current. Now I am not. 

    So what's good that's new? And by "new" I mean within the last 5 years or so.

    N.T. Wright’s Paul: A Biography.  Academic and lengthy but a new classic.

    Michael Heiser’s The Unseen Realm.  Probably the most thorough Biblical researcher in original languages writes on the Bible’s concept of non-worldly beings and environments.  Secondarily, his follow-on books Angels and Demons.  Shorter and fascinating with lots of conversation material.  

  4. Sad, but this site has consistently failed to attract and engage new users.  We could do 95% of what we do as a group email.

    I think it would be better to engage in a larger, vibrant community such as TheologyWeb.

  5. 45 minutes ago, WandaMc said:

     

    Hey, everybody. I have a problem, and I come seeking help. 


    I've typed and retyped this several times. I feel guilty and blasphemous talking about this. 

    My father is living with me, and he is driving me crazy. 
    He listens to televangelists all day. Specifically, right now, the emphasis is on Doug batchelor, but there are dozens of others. 

    He says he's "studying," and when asked to clarify, just repeats himself. He is convinced the world is coming to an end, probably tomorrow. He is nominally a progressive himself, but whenever he listens to any of these preachers, he accepts whatever they have to say as gospel truth. He is constantly entrenching himself in dangerous right wing rhetoric. Convinced that every nation on earth wants to blow America off the map because it's a Christian nation, while simultaneously seeming to believe that america is some kind of secular hellscape. 

    I feel awful saying anything about it. I feel like I'm going against God, because I don't want him "studying," I feel like I'm being blasphemous. 

    It got so bad a few months ago, to the point where he was ordering things online, donating a significant portion of very small SSI check to right wing "charities," and spending every single waking hour listening to men yell and scream about how the world is ending, and it's all the fault of whatever minority group was the fan favorite for the day. I couldn't take it anymore. I changed the password on the wifi, told him his phone had viruses, and I had to send it back to Verizon to get serviced. 
    The youtube recommendations on the shared account we used went from primarily videos about homesteading and news, to videos about the end of days, why the gay agenda will destroy america, and secret Jewish plots. It was bad, y'all.


    Like I said, he's nominally progressive. He supports many progressive causes, but there's this cognitive dissonance between him as a person, and him as an evangelist. 

    He's gotten very, very into Messianic Judaism and the seventh day adventists, though I don't know very much about either of those groups, to be honest. I don't know if they're inherently right wing, or if he's just found the right wing of them. 


    My lie about the phone has reached an end, I can't keep putting it off anymore, and the moment I "get the phone fixed," it's going right back to where it was. 

    Are there any progressive/left leaning televangelists, podcasts, youtubers, anything? I need help, and I'm legitimately concerned for him, and I have this horrible racking guilt about this. I don't know what to do. 

    Can any of you help me, please?

    Welcome, Wanda.   He needs to be around real live Christians, which is not easy to do these days.  Food banks and thrift store volunteering are good opportunities here.

    He can’t obsess over ideas when he is helping others.

    • Like 1
  6. Your not wrong.  Apologies to non/Americans, but all of the laws, statutes and municipal codes hang on the Constitution.  Not super helpful.

    There is also natural law and the Noachide laws which apply to non-Jews.

    Pipi has a valid interpretation.  Pointing to Jesus’ rule of thumb does not refute Jesus’ extensive and detailed quotation of Scripture or his statement that he would not remove a ‘jot or tittle’ of the written law.

    Jesus did correct the Pharisee’s interpretation of keeping the Sabbath holy, but the commandment itself was never questioned.

  7. “. . . scepticism must be at least as fatal to the truth as credulity”. In other words, how did ‘trust but verify’ degenerate into ‘distrust and vilify’?”

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/bibleandculture/2020/08/31/the-difference-between-critical-and-sceptical-thinking/

    The author has a prescient observation.  Where European Christianity has a long history of mutually respectful conversation and debate, America has this curse of self-educated fundamentalism and American Christians often feel it is more important to ‘debunk’ that Darbyist mindset than to engage in a genuine search for truth.

  8. 11 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

    You don't understand the scriptures. Jesus have says, what to do on Sabbath. Or what can we do on the Sabbath day. Read Revelation 12:17 and 14:12. Are you saying that Paul didn't keep the Sabbath day?

    The essence of the Sabbath is to set aside one day to be grateful for all God does for us.  It is a day to turn the self off and focus on grace.

  9. 1 hour ago, Elen1107 said:

    I'm also thinking that the opposite is also true. Any past revelations must be discerned in the light of personal and more modern revelation and or insight(s) as well.

    Just because something is traditional doesn't mean it is either right or wrong, it can be either. It depends on the tradition or the "revelation" or the idea(s).

     

    It is nice to find confirmation and like mindedness with other people and other thinkers. It can be real nice to find that one is not alone in the world with one of their ideas or insights. It can also be downright scary if someone tries to shutdown and shutoff one's truest ideas and insights. Sometimes they are jealous, sometimes it's because they don't conform to their understanding of things, or they just don't understand it. Sometimes it means that they can no longer proceed with their greedy or self-centered ways, I think Jesus went through this and it was quite very possibly one of the reasons he faced crucifixion. Jesus might have been strong enough and deep and insightful enough to take this, I don't know if the rest of us are.

    I think that you are so right in saying that "Self-deception is a real and present danger." , in regards to the subject we have been talking about as well as many, many other ideas and subjects. As far as what we have been talking about, all I can say is that, if one is being truly honest with oneself, when one is truly in touch with God, JC or the HS, one knows it, there is no doubt, one just knows it. Likewise, if one is not in touch with any or all of them, and one is being totally honest with oneself, one also knows it, there's no way around it, and if one is like against fooling oneself, one just knows it. Also one can be partially in touch with them, one just needs to be honest about it and know where they are at, and if one needs to do something or be aware of it or work on it or something, then one need to know that and do something about it or something.

    --------------------------------------------

    Just ran into a statement by Richard Rohr, that seems to be somewhat about people being in touch with God. To read it one needs to go to this Amazon link, then click on the jacket cover of the book - this will bring up a kindle of some of the book - then one needs to click on chapter one in the index - the second paragraph of chapter one seems to be about this/these kinds of experience of being in touch with God and the trinity. 

    https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Man-Wise-Reflections-Spirituality/dp/0867167408/ref=pd_sbs_14_1/136-8344692-6894934?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0867167408&pd_rd_r=2ebff78c-1345-48ce-9c97-332f4b16459e&pd_rd_w=CA4Cu&pd_rd_wg=oIrxV&pf_rd_p=703f3758-d945-4136-8df6-a43d19d750d1&pf_rd_r=JJGWE7W1GZV6SH30RFPQ&psc=1&refRID=JJGWE7W1GZV6SH30RFPQ

     

    Sorry if I'm cramming a bit too much into one post, but I have a feeling that I'm going to run out of comments again, so I'm making good/big use of the ones I've got.

    Thanks for reading

    Traditions often need to be updated, but rarely discarded entirely.  Traditions are successful solutions to old problems and if they are chucked out we usually get our old problems back.  Better to make gradual adjustments.

  10. 3 hours ago, Elen1107 said:
     

    It's nice to find some common ground and agreement again.

    This is a pun on words but, ... Don't be so booked-up that U can't wait on or have room for God to touch you and relate to you directly through your own understanding and insight(s).

    Don't know if that ^ really works, but I've written it up anyways

    That actually sounds kind of interesting. I wouldn't mind knowing more about that/those experience(s) of yours, that's if you want to put them into words and share with people.

    I'm still trying to figure out how to regard or relate to the book. I find I do a lot better if I just do 'no book' and just go with the spirit of God and Christ within me, and the holy spirit too. I don't end up doing or thinking anything that's really out there in relation to how the traditional booked-up mentality goes, except maybe they'd say I communicate too much for a female, which isn't communicating any more than any of the males do, so I don't see why their /your role model in this shouldn't be ok and stuff like that. I think I have some good ideas and insights at times, and I don't have a male person to express them for me, so why shouldn't I express them myself. I guess I myself don't really care who expresses the ideas or whatever, I much more care that the right or most insightful ideas get expressed. Still, if I see or feel that these ideas aren't getting shown or expressed, why shouldn't I express them myself? I'm not trying to 'control' anyone or be the big spokesperson for anyone or everyone. I take other people's ideas one at a time, and expect the same. Just because one person has a bunch of good ideas on one day doesn't mean they might not have a bad idea on another day or at another time. That's just people. Expecting anyone of us to be the perfect incarnation of Jesus all the time is a bit much as far as I'm concerned. Try as one might, I think most of us are going to come up with a bad or not so good idea once in a while.

    Edit> Or someone/one of us might express something in not quite the right way, which I myself do a bit too, too often. . .  . . (the forum has just told me that I've run out of comments, for now, so I'll catch up with you and everyone else later).

    Thanks for reading all this and thanks for your comments.

    Understandings, insights and revelations are all well and good . . .IF . . . one can confirm they are likely to be authentic by means outside of the self.

    Self-deception is a real and present danger.  That “Aha!” moment is more likely than not actually an “Uh-oh!” moment if they do not work and play well with others.

  11. 25 minutes ago, Elen1107 said:

    I've never really heard of that perspective before, but it is interesting. Myself, I need to think about it for a bit.

    Thanks for sharing your outlook and perspective.

    The high level question is to ask is what was the purpose behind the entire Jesus event/narrative.  

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