Amy

A couple of things. First of all, since I was a child and first heard of the idea of NDEs, I've been intrigued by them. So I have read many books and accounts by people over the years who have claimed to have a NDE. (Now whether or not what they experienced is actually true, is of course, still a matter of debate.) But I'm going to approach this from the aspect that I believe these supernatural experiences were very real to them. And through all the accounts I've read, there seems to be an over-riding theme. No one goes to hell because they didn't "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and savior". People of all different faith, religious backgrounds, and even atheists have NDE and describe similar scenarios and going to another place. Call it heaven if you will. Many also report something called a "life review". This another common experience of the NDE phenomena. And if there is any judgment in heaven this is where it comes in. And people who had these experiences make it very clear that God isn't judging them, they are judging themselves. This judgment of themselves is centered around times in their life when they caused hurt and pain to others by actions or words. Mistreating others in some form seems to be the only "sin" that really matters in the spirit realm. So where does Jesus fit into this equation? Jesus's message was all about love, kindness and compassion to others. When Jesus says "follow me", I interpret that to mean follow my example of the love I have shown to others and what I have taught you about how to treat others. But there are many, many people of different religions who also practice love, kindness and compassion for others. How to treat others is a common theme all the major religions of the world. God may give us different paths to him, but I believe we are heading in the same direction. And by the way, I've known atheists who act more "Christian like" and more kind and loving than some people who themselves Christians. On this thread, others have mentioned the laws or the rules of bible. I would like to weigh in on that too. First remember that the Jewish people were not a secular society like we are here in America. They didn't have a constitution or laws that were made by congress or interpreted by the Supreme court. Because they were a religious society they followed the "laws of God". So many of the laws in the OT have to do with behaviors for their particular society. Just the same as our laws here in America do. Our laws here in America (in other countries as well) are made so that we can attempt to live in peacefully in society. However, the Jewish people didn't have a democracy form of government. What they actually had was a theocracy form of government. One of their laws, being a religious society, was that people must follow their God.

I'm new here too, Element. And I agree completely with your opening statement. We need to get away from "the tribal minded religion" (As Spong puts it) that has done a whole lot of harm over the years. One of my deepest desires is that Christians can be viewed as the loving helpers, not judgmental persecutors. Which I'm afraid is what many people think of when they hear the word "Christian". Amy

Steve, Thanks. Yes, his ministry probably was incomplete. And in my mind, I don't believe that Jesus's propose was the create a whole new religion. I think he was a reformer and pointed out things that he saw wrong with what was going on with many of the priests at the time, their teachings and what was going on inside the synagogue. Much in the same way that Martin Luther pointed out what he felt was wrong with Catholic church. The main difference being that protestants start didn't a whole new religion. They still consider themselves Christian. Perhaps if Jesus would have been able to continue his ministry the division between Orthodox and reformed Judaism would have happened back then instead of when it actually did occur in more recent centuries...Now whether the "reformed Judaism" would have caught on with the gentiles and spread like Christianity did, I don't know. Amy

Eric, I'm not ready to write my own thesis on what I believe, mainly because I'm still searching and probably will never stop, but I will say that agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I also struggle with the question of "Am I Christian"? I get up on Sunday mornings and attend church at my local Presbyterian church along with my family. I think it's a good atmosphere for my children to be in. I love the fellowship of the community of my church and feel uplifted when I leave. So I continue to go. But I often feel like a bit of hypocrite as I'm sitting in church on Sunday morning because in my heart I really don't believe that Jesus is the one and only God, which is what our church doctrine says. I can't even say that I believe he was God. I think he was a very wise man and was inspired by God, like many of us are. So I follow his teachings. That said, I also agree with a lot wise and insightful things that many people have said through the years, both dead and alive, but I don't think they are God. In this country people like to quote famous people and sayings. The way some people in the country talk they have practically elevated Thomas Jefferson and the other forefathers to level of deities and they act as if the constitution was written by the hand of God. (I'm sure people don't see themselves that way though, but if the forefathers said it, then that becomes undeniable fact and "truths" for them.) I often wonder is this similar in someway to what happened with Jesus? He was a really smart charismatic guy who said some very insightful things, people agreed with what he said and elevated him to the level of God in their minds. And those who wrote the scriptures for whatever reason, political or otherwise, decided to add mystical elements to convince others that he really was God. I also think that some of the insights in the gospels and other books of the NT were ideas of the authors who wrote them and attributed to them Jesus. They thought them up, but it sounded better if they attributed Jesus in order to make their insights sound more holy or "the word of God." Because you know, Paul says all kinds of things that Jesus never spoke of. I still don't know what God is, other than I believe God is a love, and whatever God is in us and part of everything else on the planet...In the end Christianity is a religion created by man.

Hello, I'm not sure where to even begin to introduce myself. I'm a 48 year old, homemaker, wife and mother of 2 boys (ages 10 & 15). I've lived in Texas for the past 7 years but am originally from central Illinois. I have spent my life floating between the United of Church of Christ (UCC) and the Presbyterian church. I'm currently an active member of the local Presbyterian in my town. It is a progressive church with a progressive minister and it does feel like "home" to me to a degree. I do consider myself a Christian, however, there have always been things about the theology that just never really felt quite right to me. I've always had a hard time coming to terms with things like the virgin birth, the miracles, and I do question many of the things surrounding the resurrection. And the whole idea of "the trinity", well admit it, I've never really understood it. Logically, I can't take the bible literally. And dare I say this...but I'm not even sure that Jesus is actually God. What I do believe...There is one God and he is the God of everyone. No special password needed to get into heaven. I believe in the essence of Christianity, in that true message of that Jesus was of love, compassion and caring for others. This is how I've been able to justify calling myself a Christian. Because I follow the teachings of Christianity and believe he was probably a messenger of God. And I do respect all religions because I feel God gives us many different paths to him and we are all basically heading in the same direction. God understands we all are individuals and what speaks to one person may not speak to another, but he knows what is in our hearts. I live in a very conservative evangelical community and I'm afraid I've become very anti-fundamentalist because of it. The things I hear come out of mouths of some these people just blows me away. It seems many of them base their theology around the Book Or Revelations and they are so judgmental and can be downright hateful. Being in this atmosphere at times has made want to turn away from Christianity completely because I don't want to be associated with them in any way shape or form. (Although I don't know where else I go since I was raised in the tradition of Christianity and that's what I know.) And it really bothers me that the fundamentalist seem to have the bull horn in this country and have become the face of Christianity. I think they end up driving more people away than actually converting people which saddens me. I would like Christians to be seen as the "helpers" not the "judgers", but I don't know how we go about taking the the bull horn back. Christianity truly does need to be rescued from these type people. Recently, I've discovered videos and lectures by Bishop John Spong. They speak to me and now after listening to him, the bible is beginning to make more sense to me. I feel renewed in my faith because now I understand that there is another way to look at the bible without believing everything literally and still call yourself a Christian. Amy