Deb N

The best reason I can think of was to keep God in perspective to the largely unsophisticated and/or ignorant masses. It's pretty much just tradition at this point, though a contested one.

The Gnostics Gospels contain the Gospel of Mary (Magdalene), also Judas Iscariat. . They're pretty interesting all things considered. And they give a better perspective of what the feminine would look like.

I figured that if God made us in His own image then there would be reason to believe that at least some of Him was feminine. I do believe in the roles that women have held to a degree. I think that in order to have balance in spirit both the masculine and the feminine must be present. This is not to be confused with only a man and a woman comprising a union . In that case each individual brings some level of masculine and/or feminine into the relationship.

I don't think it will lead to a healthy society. Though it may lead to a higher degree of intelligence. I'd like to see all genetic manipulation be banned save the portion done for medical relief. We have already evolved, for the most part, to pick the prettiest, most well built, and slightly smarter person for our mates. Natural selection is a beautiful thing. I don't trust GMO food though. Our internal organs have become highly tuned to what it needs to survive. If you start modifying our foodstuffs there will be consequences internally. I've already read about sheep who've been fed GMO foods becoming sterile and/or having false pregnancies at a much higher rate. While I don't claim to be the same as a sheep, I am reluctant to take the chance. A sheep is a mammal and so are we so why invite the possibility of disaster?

I suppose the answer to that lies in what people define as their "quality of life". As you stated on the one hand medicine (especially antibiotics) keeps us going longer. The ancients had a pretty high infant mortality rate. But those who survived could count on adequate food (usually), clean drinking water and air, and a group of people who would help one defend themselves if the occasion arose. You didnt' need money or credit or insurance. You shared all you had and they shared with you, in some tribes. Conversely, if you were severely injured, too old to contribute, or deformed at birth you were left to die in some tribes. Granted they had some medicinal herbs but there are just a number of conditions where herbs are useless. Evolution, both physical and societal, has left us pretty much indefensible in survival situations. The world is overpopulated, polluted, not much more safe than it was at the time of the tribes. It's not a good idea to idealize the past in favor of the present, but I'd still like to have a time machine so I could go back.

And it irritates the pig.

I'm wondering if this type of marriage could have been a celebate union with the partners living like monks or some such.

Murmsk, "Then the question becomes "Is there any reason we should consider this as historical?" I think the answer is no then the question is why did 1st century followers of Jesus feel it was important enough to want to remember." I can't give you an answer for "why" but the notes in the NIV study Bible stated that Judas Iscariat may have been a rhetorical character added to illustrate the betrayal of all men.

Wayseeker, " It's my opinion that Judas wanted the right thing, God's kingdom on earth, but he misunderstood that kingdom and how that kingdom was to come." I hadn't thought of this. I'm still not sure of how that kingdom will come about. My best guesses are nuclear war or errant comet. It's my belief that the second coming occurs when we die and so is different for everyone. __________ "How much Jesus may or may not have known about his disciples beforehand, we can never know for sure. But he was often accused by the Religious Right of his day of hanging out with the wrong crowds, of fellowshipping with people whom anyone else would have written off long ago. But the man had grace." Another good point. Once the Pharisees decided that Jesus was a threat to their way of life, I believe, the decision was made regardless of whether Judas identified him or not. Jesus was known to many by the time He was turned over. Since He'd spoken at the temple a number of times, it's not likely (to me) that He was unrecognizable. By then He certainly knew His fate. Had Judas not identified Him Jesus likely would have identified Himself in deference to God's will.

"What sort of violence against prisoners do you have in mind Deb? Gratuitous violence such as torture (physical or mental) has no place - but how should the prison authorities deal with violent prisoners who want to fight, who arm themselves in their cells and present a danger to cell-mates and/or prison guards? I don't know if you've ever seen a program called America's Hardest Prisons, but there are some very, very angry and dangerous people in the system." I do agree that racism is pervasive in the numbers arrested and that some courts tend to be racially biased. Yes I understand the need of the authorities to maintain order. Perhaps some of those in a jail cell should be in a mental health facility instead. Considering the wonder drugs out on the market for all kinds of personality disorders, perhaps it would be worth exploring. But if the prisoners are treated like dogs they will tend to act like them.

I'm not a fan of violence. It only begets more violence. I can also see the need for minimal force to bring justice at times. What alarms me is the number of homeless and mentally ill who die while being taken into custody and in police custody. Off Topic example: You don't hear about this in other developed nations. In some of the Scandanavian countries prisoners are treated well and given therapy and taught an occupation. It seems they have a low rate of recidivism. Granted they also have a much smaller prison population, which, I believe, should be the goal of every nation. So is violence against prisoners justified? I don't think so.

I have talked to a scienist about this. He replied something to the tune of The more science you know the more you believe in God. Sometimes it makes sense that there is an intelligent design to the universe and others not. Like with any other profession YMMV.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I've been curious about this for a very long time (off and on). And there's a few other questions I have as well. Admittedly I'm no scholar but I have begun to follow Biblical archeology. You have given me much to think about.

My Jesus was killed due to jealousy and lies. Should we expect anything less?

I'm in CA single with progressive beliefs, but little scholarship apart from currently reading the NIV study Bible. I've been looking online and can't find an answer that satisfies my question: If Jesus knew that Judas Iscariot was going to betray him, then why did He pick the man for a desciple? In light of Jesus saying "get behind me Satan" when a deciple vowed to defend him, it seems to me that if Judas was the only one willing to do the job then wouldn't he hold a special place in Jesus' heart? Blood money aside, Judas did facilitate the advent of God's plan. I would think Judas would be revered for that. Is it simply the will of God?