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Eric333

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Everything posted by Eric333

  1. Hi JAF. I have been in a very similar situation, and my best take on it in hindsight is that you be you (don't pretend to be someone you're not) and let them be them (don't try to convince them that you are right and they are all misunderstood....at least not in that forum), and if you cannot "tow the company line" of the churches belief statement in front of the youth (it is probably declared on their website) then you should probably leave instead of challenging them in front of the youth. That's my $0.02 anyway...
  2. I would probably say that I don't think my belief system is "true"... and I might also add that any ultimate belief bystem is probably best referred to by it's acronym (BS).
  3. Hi, we meet again (from Chrisitan Evolution) I've participated here for a few years and its a good group of folks and lots of good discussion.
  4. Hi NDLXS, as you likely know, the Nicene creed was a response to Emperor Constantines inability to handle variation in the church (and his need for control). He wanted uniformity and agreement, so he sat a bunch of bishops down and told them to develop a creed. Who knows if they even all believed it. What I do know is that it was a bunch of human beings, like you and I with no special powers and a lot less evidence than we have today, carrying out an order for their Emperor. And it is something that has stuck. I don't recite it but if I did I would find my own meaning in it and ignore what I couldn't reconcile. We know that's what many Catholic priests do... Eric
  5. Nyh, I think a good criteria for choosing a church is to steer clear or churches that think the Bible is literal, or those who follow Paul instead of Jesus.
  6. Hi AnneInTX Those feelings are very natural, and they're built into the whole system. It is designed to bring doubt, guilt, and fear if questioned. I recall once reading Mark 9:42 (which I had read many times prior) but one time it hit me differently. It says "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea." I realized that I am one of those people who cause little ones to stumble. I ask tons of questions and cause fundamentalists to think about things they were blissful not to care about prior. But I feel like we're better to have humility (even if it is knowing nothing for sure) instead of forcing made up BS (thats Belief Systems not Bull Shi....:-) on everyone else that causes war, biases, and myopic contentions. Anyway, today I think that God (for whatever that may mean) would more likely be glad that we are seeking truth and not following mindlessly, while also helping people understand that he isnt that bearded wildman from the Old Testament (I think "he" must hate that rep). Maybe God really likes people like us who think deeply and seek truth at all costs? Maybe he's guiding us to break the mold? Now there's a thought ;-) Eric
  7. Hi John, it can be a very exciting and liberating time, but also discouraging during the chasm when old belefs fall away and new comforts have yet to emerge. This is a good place to work through it. Welcome. Eric
  8. Yes I LOL'd at that part too! And the part where Jerry mentions the joke about Raquel Welch and the Priest perks all up and wants to hear it :-)
  9. You guys are hitting on the head with the fundy vs. Catholic stuff, I was raised in New York as a Catholic, and then moved to FL and went to protestant church and have totally seen both sides in action. I love your last line here... says it all!
  10. Great story Norm. I think you are right on target with your views regarding Judiasm's evolution from a "religion" to a "tradition and way of life." As an aside, I love that Seinfeld episode where the Dentist converts to Judiasm for the jokes! Check it out here if you haven't seen it: When I was taking theology in college we often referred to Judiasm to bring more clarity to things, and it was very valuable. I love that you used the word Moshiac because it's interesting how many modern evangelicals dont even know what the word Yeshua means :-) I look forward to hearing more about your insights on this topic. Eric
  11. Hi Kathy and Norm, you both make some excellent points. I have really enjoyed the quality of discussion on this forum! Personally, I think there are many of "us" out there who were raised and formed by Christian tradition, and we tuned out the bad stuff and focused on the good stuff, and it's simply baked into us and we still long for that community; but have "progressed" in our intellectual understandings which makes us unwelcome in most churches. I think what needs to happen to Christianity is what happened to Judiasm, where it got "watered down" (I can imagine an evangelical hating that I just said that). Eventually it IS going to end up being a mere tradition where people cherry pick the good stuff, use the buildings and ministries for good works, and fellowship for a good purpose ... and modern fundamentalism will be viewed akin to how we view Amish or something like that today. I think this generation is pushing things in that direction. For a title, I use "Evolved Christian" just for fun (and even have a blog called Christian Evolution to explore all of that), because I personally feel like I can best describe my path as having evolved over the years by keeping the good, shedding the bad, and continuing to look forward to strengthen and adapt. But for "real" titles that would be understood by other people, Progressive Christian is mostly full of Christian A-Theists (or those who are well on their way to being Christian (by tradition) A-theists (by understanding) so likely the best label out there right now.
  12. Amy, these are some excellent thoughts you've shared, I think they're spot on, and I can very much relate to going to church for various reasons but hoping that nobody ever asks me what I thought of the sermon! :-)
  13. David, thanks for the response, and sorry for the slow response in return. I like the way you think!
  14. Hi Bill, great to "meet" you and thanks for your thoughts on this thread (and sorry for the slow response, I didnt realize there were any new posts on this thread). I also was last most involved at a large UMC church and they were wanting me to preach and lead ministries etc and finally I talked to the pastor with the goal to have a discussion with him about Bible inerrancy and I quickly realized there was no interest by him in anyone who wasn't gong to march to the party line, so I had to leave. Pretty unfortunate because there were a lot of folks there who I really liked, and there was some good work I was able to do there with mission / outreach, and many don't even know why I left.... Nice to know theres others of like mind out there.
  15. Bob, thank you for your response on the topic. Nice to meet someone else of pretty like mind! Eric
  16. Good question Rhino. I think there are many levels to your question. One that was stated is whether its the best use of time? Is it good for so many college kids to sit in front of first person shooter games for hours on end instead of doing homework or charity work or something? Probably not, but is that a sin? Hmmmm. There are kids starving in Africa, so is it a sin to sit and play a video game for a couple hrs a day instead of rasie funds to save those lives? Hmmmm. More simply, I played shooter games growing up, and car games where we crashed em up just for fun, but there's no part of me that seeks to do those things in reality; it was just a bit of fun that didnt seem to warp me in any way. Maybe it was even a good stress relief or opportunity to "zone out." Maybe like anything, it depends on whether the game keys in on someones trending warped tendencies. And also notable, I wouldnt want my own kids playing most of the games out there these days as I just think they're over the top with sex and violence and a total waste of time. So in my house there will be none of that because I hope to teach my kids that time is our most valuable asset and not to be squandered on games like that :-)
  17. It's a great book. Although when I have suggested some of its materials to my evangelical friends they just shrug it off as someone trying to rationalize all the facts to make earthly makes sense, instead of taking it on faith...
  18. Good points Migdalin. I'll have to check this book out.
  19. Dear Bald White Gardener, First of all, it sounds like you have 2/3rd's the traits of Bruce Willis, and he's totatally cool, so you should own that!! In fact, he may even garden for all we know and then you're 3/3 :-) Also, sorry to hear about your sick parents, bad health, lousy marriage, over-education, and professional failings. I bet you grow a mean tomato though??? Or are you more one of those prize rosebush kind of guys? As for being lost, we are alllll lost my friend. Anyone who say's their not is just kidding themself. So stick around and we can all be over-educated and lost together. Eric
  20. Thanks Joseph. I'm with you actually, as I am not really looking for a label or concerned about the PC label being a good fit or not, I just find it fun to explore titles and challenge paradigms. As you say, the title of PC is probably the best road-sign out there right now to let people know progressive thought exists. There's certainly a great group of folks on this board with widely varying opinions, but common pasts.
  21. NORM, thanks! To the comment of yours I quoted above, I really hope that aspect of Christianity survives the intellectual enlightenment intact.
  22. Hi JCS Banks. I don't think belief in God matters at the macro level, because "belief" and "God" are such loaded words to begin with. I personally think that it's healthy to have a humility that some "force" could exist, and possibly even have a purpose in all this chaos. Eric
  23. Just launched a new site called http://www.christianevolution.com It would be a great help to go check it out, like the facebook page or sign up for email updates, or send it a guest post, to help get it going. Thanks!

  24. getting a degree in Theology, as it gave time and focus to sorting out all the cognitive dissonance between the brand of God / Bible / Chrisianity I was rasied to believe and the brand of God / Bible / Chrisianity I begain to belive was more likely. Many people live many years of quiet desperation trying to harmonize these types of things and I feel the degree helped fast track that. Shalom.
  25. Hi Folks, I was curious what insights you all might have on this. Assuming most of you are up to speed on the overall topic I will cut right to the chase and not worry about citing verses and context. In the OT there are a number of areas of "God's Law" that tell the Israelites to stone / kill rebellious children, or in the case of Elisha's curse God just sends bears to tear the kids apart. Some scholars make caveats that these particular laws are focused toward particular people in a particular time, and not applicable to gentiles today, yada yada. Or others simply posit that the death and resurrection of Jesus means we follow the NT now and ignore all that old brutal stuff. But my more general question is how Bible literalists can rationalize this? Jesus clearly says he does not intend to change the law, and in fact means for every letter to be upheld. The simply question is, if God told anyone that stoning rebellious children was good at one time, why would "he" think any differently now? Of course I say that it all was written by man anyway, so "God" plays no part, but how can literalists harmonize this with the fact that they dont stone their children today? Why would God change his preferred method of discipline from stoning to time-outs? Disclaimer: I don't in any way condone stoning rebellious children ;-)
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