jonnyb

hi Bill, your post really spoke to me, as i have had the same thing on my mind. Like you, I have shed all of those beliefs you listed above, but still felt inclined to hang onto the term 'christian'. My motivations for doing so have been: 1. if i may quote you, i'm 'drawn to him, his life, his teachings, his death' 2. for the benefit of my family I have felt that I could be an 'agnostic christian' who follows the path of christ but without any supernatural beliefs. But the more i look into the history of the new testament, the more I see a set of writings created by groups of people who wanted to push their version over someone else's version, who had many ideas that don't sit well with my 21st century worldview, and who likely put words into Jesus mouth to associate him with their own cause. So I also have thought about performing my own 'cut and paste' on the writings on Jesus. But what this throws up is - if I only pick out the bits I agree with, why do i need the bible to remind my of my own worldview? keen to hear any more thoughts you have Jonny

I relate, Steve! I read a quote once, something like, 'we are evolution become aware of itself.' I'm always struck by the length of time that this world was turning before anyone/anything was around to see it. It certainly makes the mind boggle, if you just take a moment to appreciate the fact that you can see, hear, touch, feel emotion. and you have to think to yourself - what am i going to do with that gift? Jonny

love this thread, and i've really enjoyed reading your posts. (Soma - also love the deep conversations i can get into on long drives with my son - though he's only 5!) I guess i feel the same way as many of you do, that is best to let them find their own way, and be there to offer any guidance that they might ask for. I feel the same as you, Kathy, in that i don't want my kids to feel as i did growing up - that there is only one true way, and if you don't believe what we believe then you are lost. A very important thing for me in raising my kids, is that i must resist the temptation to make them be like me. That covers everything, from religion, to careers, hobbies, worldview etc. I really want them to feel they are free to live the way they want to. Our wider family are all 'proper' christian, and i wonder if someday will questions be raised about my lack of 'spiritual leadership', but i tackle that if/when it comes! Jonny

hi, sorry, just seeing these replies! glad you all enjoyed it Jonny

Hi, just recommending a great little movie - 'the way' - starring martin sheen and written and directed by emelio estevez, his son. A very spiritual movie, moving, uplifting and all that

Hi Veratatis, welcome, your thoughts sound similar to mine Jonny

did a google on that one, Paul, and found it very comprehensibly explained in this national geographic interview! http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2012/07/17/the-story-behind-beasts-of-the-southern-wild/

one thing that had me thinking was the name - 'Beasts' the girl in her narration seems to include people when she uses the word 'animals', and the people in the community did indeed live a kind of desperate, animalistic lifestyle of survival. Also the term 'beasts' could be a reference to how those of us in the 'civilised' world (like the government officials and doctors in the movie) might see these peoples lifestyle. The father's behaviour was often unpleasant, but his motive seemed to be preparing his child for survival in a harsh world. This reminded me of Brad Pitt's character in the 'tree of life', and this movie is often reminiscent of that one. yes, the connectedness of the community was one of the most attractive aspects of the film. just my thoughts!

Anyone else seen this extraordinary movie? would love to know your thoughts... Jonny

Hi and welcome, i share that feeling of not being able to be open with family and friends. This site is a good outlet. Jonny

You had me thinking about this, Rhino, especially the question - why is raping someone in a game any worse than killing someone? Annie, I think you came to the same conclusion as me when you mentioned 'biological survival'. Most killing games comprise of the user fighting for survival against an army/zombies etc, rather than prolonged acts of cruelty. I know from watching my young children's make-believe play, that from the offset we have the desire to 'beat the bad guy' and be a hero. It's part of the survival instinct natural to all living things. I also agree with Paul, that 'sin' is not a black-and-white thing, as trad christians would suggest, but 'right and wrong' is a very complex thing that takes in culture, worldview etc etc Jonny

Hi, just finished reading a novel which some of you might enjoy. It's a quick read and fairly cheap on kindle. The book is 'The Brandy of the Damned' by JMR Higgs - the title comes from a Bertrand Russell quote 'music is the brandy of the damned.' The plot sees three members of a long defunct rock band take a trip around the coast of Britain in their old van. The book is quite surreal and not a lot happens, but the discussions between the three are high on philosophy and give much food for thought. There were several incidents which stood out for me - one of which was when a character experiences a kind of 'judgement day', where he is the judge, allocating himself marks out of ten for every moment of his life. This is very thought provoking, as he assesses how he spent the time he has had on earth. Another interesting theme running through the book is the occasional discovery of chapters from a 'future bible', which arrive washed up in blue bottles. I especially liked this passage from it, where we are advised that three is the ideal number of religions to follow - 'You can position yourself in the centre of three religions and in doing so drink of their wisdom without falling for their ######...Consider the man who is a Taoist, a Pagan and a Christian. Consider the woman who is a Buddhist, a Sikh and an Atheist. These people won't easily fall for your nonsense. These people will have a wide perspective. These people will be able to get on in life. 'These people are also unlikely to start wars, or proclaim certainties on street corners, or spit at people they don't know. 'They will also be easier to seat at weddings.'

looks interesting, have downloaded it to kindle thanks Jonny

Thanks for your reply, John. And nice to hear a more balanced view of Thatcher! Jonny

Welcome John, hi from across the Irish Sea I always enjoy reading the stories of those who, like me, have had trouble reconciling their conservative faith and eventually moved away from it. I am curious to know - and sorry if this is too personal - about you and your wife losing your faith at the same time. Was it one of you who lost faith first, then influenced the other, or had you both been harbouring doubts? Again, please ignore me if i'm prying! Jonny

Hi Paul, don't know if you've had Ricky Gervais's new series over there - 'Derek'? The main character has a learning disabilty, and in the final episode he had a little monologue about religion. his conclusion - 'just be nice'. There was another great line where a Karl Pilkington's character described prayer as a 'posh moan'

hi Annie, sorry i didnt see this thread until now. I finished the book a while ago and really enjoyed it. I learned a lot from it, including a lot about myself If there are particular things you read in the book and feel like discussing, i will be happy to engage! Jonny

great post, i missed it 1st time around, and pity it didnt get more attention at the time. I have this exact same feeling of being put off any kind of christian 'practice' (church, reading the bible etc) because of the static, the bits that just don't work for me. There are great things that a church can offer, but like you, Divinejoy, the bits that put me off keep me at a distance, and i dont feel like getting too involved. It would be great to find a church with like minds but these seem thin on the ground, with traditional christianity still seeming to be the order of the day.

welcome, from another liberal and Paul, i think i have that album somewhere, must look it out! Jonny

love that, Joseph, thanks! I think you have summed it up for me Jonny

hi, I have just learned that Australian theologian Val Webb will be giving a talk near me in June. Looked up her website http://www.valwebb.com.au/ and her work looks interesting, along the spong, borg lines (indeed, there's a bit of JSS blurb on there). Anyone heard of her, read her, heard her speak? would you recommend her talk to me? thanks Jonny

Today I'm recovering from the concert i put on last night for my guitar students! I'll also be taking my 4 year old son to two different birthday parties at the same venue.

thanks, Paul. I like the scarcity/abundance thing. I, for one, am looking forward to being practically a saint!

thanks for your thoughtful responses Jonny

so is the suggestion that, as 'stage 6' has no entry in the world history column, that it hasn't happened yet but will possibly be the next phase of 'spiritual' thinking? also, what is the definition of 'universalising'? how is it different from the Pluralistic worldview? Jonny