mzmolly

I would love to see someone like Jim Wallis with his own weekly TV show. I know there is a radio show in the works, but it's in the very beginning stages. Anyone know of any rational Christian voices in TV/Radio? Thanks.

Very interesting, thanks for the recommendation.

I haven't done so, but would be interested .. where can one find a copy?

Adding, I have requested many of these from my local library. "Old Turtle" sounds wonderful and my library is stocked with other books by the same author! Thanks again to all, off to search for more of your suggestions.

Thanks to all who replied for the wonderful recommendations. My child is 6 years old, sorry I did not mention that earlier.

I like the idea of "reclaiming" the name of Jesus. Defining Jesus in a way that meets the understanding of Progressive Christians. Much like the UCC is doing now.

I am struggling with wanting to teach my daughter about Jesus/God etc. but most of the information available to kids is promoted from a "Conservative Christian" point of view. Are their any good progressive Christian childrens books you all can recommend? And, if not, who wants to help me write some. Thanks.

No wonder I continually peruse Canadian real estate boards. Excellent article, I've read this before. Sadly, we are in for another four years of this mentality in the US.

Agreed. And, I think we need a VOCAL movement that expresses "Progressive Christianity" our own version of the PTL. We need Liberal "televangelist" to come OUT with their faith. :hi: Heck, I recently found out Billy Graham is a registered Democrat.

Great ideas. I'd love to see this group grow.

I'm not familiar with OC. Can you explain? Are the masses in latin? How can these Churches be liberal leaning without Vatican II? Is there a directory? Thanks. A Church in my area has a Lakeside service in the summer. I also went to a Quaker meeting that was held on someones backyard deck. There was an outstanding view of the surrounding nature, a gentle breeze, the warmth of the sun, and the faint sound of birds in our presence. It was quite peaceful. Good luck in your search.

I agree with both of you. And, I think we need to take the phrase "moral values" and re-define it in OUR terms. What is moral about killing innocent people in Iraq? What is moral about the continued lies from this administration? What is moral about not caring for the poor? What is moral about cutting pell grants/opportunities for Americans to succeed? What is moral about increasing poverty? What is moral about a lack of health care? What is moral about ... X We need to stop running from the issue(s) they supposedly champion and expose their hypocricy with fervor.

We need one umbrella group that welcomes all progressive christians who wish to have a political voice. We have the so called "Moral Majority" so why not have our own counter group ?

Brotherrog, and others ... you are so helpful, thanks!

Wow, what a great article. I can very much relate to this: Only another liberal born into a fundamentalist clan can understand what a strange, sometimes downright hellish family circumstance it is -- how such a family can love you deeply, yet despise everything you believe in, see you as a humanist instrument of Satan, and still be right there for you when your back goes out or a divorce shatters your life. As a socialist and a half-assed lefty activist, obviously I do not find much conversational fat to chew around the Thanksgiving table. Politically and spiritually, we may be said to be dire enemies. Love and loathing coexist side by side. There is talk, but no communication. In fact, there are times when it all has science fiction overtones...times when it seems we are speaking to one another through an unearthly veil, wherein each party knows it is speaking to an alien. There is a sort of high eerie mental whine in the air. This is the sound of mutually incomprehensible worlds hurtling toward destiny, passing with great psychological friction, obvious to all, yet acknowledged by none. I married into such a family ... THIS ARTICLE IS SUCH A WAKE UP CALL ... It's a must read IMHO. But to blow The Rapture off as amusing-if-scary fantasy is not being honest on my part. Cheap glibness has always been my vice, so I must say this: Personally, I've lived with The Rapture as the psychologically imprinted backdrop of my entire life. In fact, my own father believed in it until the day he died, and the last time I saw him alive we talked about The Rapture. And when he asked me, "Will you be saved?" Will you be there with me on Canaan's shore after The Rapture?" I was forced to feign belief in it to give a dying man inner solace. But that was the spiritual stuff of families, and living and dying, religion in its rightful place, the way it is supposed to be, personal and intimate -- not political. Thus, until the advent of the Reconstructionist Christian influence, I'd certainly never heard The Rapture spoken about in the context of a Texan being selected by God to prepare its way. Now however, this apocalyptic belief, yearning really, drives an American Christian polity in the service of a grave and unnerving agenda. The pseudo-scriptural has become an apocalyptic game plan for earthly political action: To wit, the messiah can only return to earth after an apocalypse in Israel called Armageddon, which the fundamentalists are promoting with all their power so that The Rapture can take place. The first requirement was establishment of the state of Israel. Done. The next is Israel's occupation of the Middle East as a return of its "Biblical lands," which in the Reconstructionist scheme of things, means more wars. These Christian conservatives believe peace cannot ever lead to The Rapture, and indeed impedes the 1,000 year Reign of Christ. So anyone promoting peace is an enemy, a tool of Satan, hence the fundamentalist support for any and all wars Middle Eastern, in which their own kids die a death often viewed by Christian parents as a holy martyrdom of its own kind. "He (or she) died protecting this country's Christian values." One hears it over and over from parents of those killed.

I totally agree.

Thank YOU Brother Rog. I will pass this on!

Thank you for this very important information.

Lisa, I live in a heavily military town and many of the people I love and worship among are military families. While I always gently explain my pacifist/liberation views, there are pastoral concerns that are important as well. I think that the Bush adminstration pulled off a media coup by declaring all dissenters as un-patriotic, un-American or whatever. It didn't take the churches long to translate that into un-Christian, at least in my area. So sad..since we had a wonderful opportunity to show the world a better way. And people wonder why many progressives stay home on Sundays? Many of the Churches have become a place to worship George Bush and the RW Fundie brigade. I worked for a local Lutheran Church (ELCA) and the political climate was so apparent that I had to leave my job. I have started attending a UCC, and am enjoying praying for "Economic Justice" and "Peace" ... and many of the things I consider christian values. An excellent read, Thank you BrotherRog. "The Bush policy has become one of potentially endless wars abroad and a domestic agenda that mostly consists of tax cuts, primarily for the rich. "Bush promised us a foreign policy of humility and a domestic policy of compassion," Joe Klein wrote in Time magazine. "He has given us a foreign policy of arrogance and a domestic policy that is cynical, myopic, and cruel." and this... "Once there was Rome; now there is a new Rome. Once there were barbarians; now there are many barbarians who are the Saddams of this world. And then there were the Christians who were loyal not to Rome, but to the kingdom of God. To whom will the Christians be loyal today?" Very Good question.

Did you know that Southern Baptists were the ONLY congregation that supported the Iraq War? All the other major Christian denominations renounced it.

Did anyone catch the *discovery channel series* in this subject. It was very interesting. http://shopping.discovery.com/stores/servl...productId=54854 "Step back in time to investigate Ancient Evidence that offers a new take on the major figures and events described in the Bible, the Torah and the Koran. Breakthrough scientific discoveries illuminate age-old secular depictions and scriptural accounts. Expert anthropologists, historians and geneticists comb the past to bring you closer to the sacred world than ever before. Watch as scholars and computer animation experts collaborate for the first time ever to bring the book of Revelations to life, providing insight into what many see as a vivid description of the end of the world – from fantastic images of otherworldly creatures to detailed metaphors involving the number seven. Then, meet the man behind the metaphors as historians shed light on the book's writer – the apostle John – and provide political context for the dramatic depictions found in the bible's most controversial book." A very sensible examination IMHO...

Oh my, I guess I'd be glad too LOL EEK!!! If I can find it... I'll check and see. I don't know how helpful this will be, as I did not get into specifics with the party involved. I simply addressed it from an "agree to disagree" perspective... Edited to add snips of my reply as it is a very long letter and quite complicated involving several issues.... (a few snip-its) Dear XXX, I will make an attempt to address your concerns. It has been apparent over the years that you and X have had some differences with X and I in the areas of child rearing, politics and religion. xxx in a nutshell the best I can offer is that we have differences with one another that we can accept or not. We will never agree on everything, and I don’t think that is uncommon, frankly. We feel that God is loving and forgiving, and that God will guide us if we ask him to – regardless of whether or not we attend Church. Furthermore, we don’t think that regular Church attendance is a necessary element for eternal life. In fact, Jesus said the following: "And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." ~ (Matthew 6:5-6) In spite of the fact that Jesus said God hears our prayers no matter where we are, we do want to find a Church that is compatible with the teachings of Christ, for many reasons. It seems that has been a more difficult task than we imagined it would be. We have not made the connection we had hoped for, nor have we found a Church that isn’t more concerned with taking in money and propping up misguided values, than teaching the values of Christ. We have found the Churches *we* visited to be largely superficial and empty in their agenda. Lastly, we are confident in Gods love and grace, and feel that should (my husband, daughter or myself die today) we will be accepted warmly into the arms of God. I am sorry if you feel differently. However, as you know, God is our ONLY judge. I will close by respectfully asking that going forward you come to our home, simply to enjoy our company, and accept us for who we are. If this is not possible then I understand that. Sometimes family is no fun to be around. However, if you have any suggestions or ideas for improvement they may best be left to the Lord through your prayers. (end snipets) Keep in mind I addressed this from a *perspective* she could understand and in a way turned the tables with the bold text above... I doubt this will be in any way helpful, but thought I'd post it as you asked.

I totally agree. Thanks to all for the thoughtful posts.

Thanks Jeep. I've checked out 2 books from the local library. One from Spong, one from Borg. But they are different titles? I do hope to join you soon for a discussion however.

I totally agree with your assessment. I remember "hearing exact dates" before. I recall a few such dates, one in particular dealt with the alignment of the planets in the 80's. I remember dreading that day. It came and went. My mother told me they've predicted "end times" for centuries and I began to realize that I should explore other explanations. My mother in law, who sent the letter apologized! Imagine that! Peace all, and thanks for the replies.