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  1. For me, Progressive Christianity provides me a paradigm for something I've been seeking all my life...a context, a framework, for constructing a personal religous/faith beliefs system within which I can work to bring that which is above down into that which is below, to make the outer consistent with the inner, to faciliate the doing of God's will on Earth as it is in Heaven. A most frustrating and painful irony for me has been that the very most basic underlying cause of me having rejected so much of the Christian religious traditions of the circumstances of my time and place of birth and
    2 points
  2. Hi all. I joined the Christian forums (https://www.christianforums.com) around the same time as joining here. I was curious to know if anyone here is or was a member there, and if so, what were your thoughts ? There are two things I'd like to say, one minor, and one major : 1. The minor point is that I was banned from the site today. I was banned outright, without any warnings. I know the last thing I posted was somewhat OTT (although factually correct), and was in all likelihood the reason I got the boot. Apart from the lack of notification, I am not concerned about the ban, as I wa
    1 point
  3. I gave an example of entire cultures who perceive spirituality as going beyond their individual experiences and even beyond human or living being experiences. For you, that's just more examples of individuals having their own perceptions, for me, it's an example of humans who are tapped into something larger than themselves. That's why I say I cannot and don't endeavour to prove it. I can't answer your question to any degree of satisfaction, because if it's totally reasonable and rational for someone to write off the experience and just neural perception. I know because I'm a
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  4. I can't and don't try to prove anything of the sort. My argument is not that spirituality legitimately exists, and definitely not that I can prove it, my argument is that spirituality/religion can co-exist in a complementary fashion with science. I cannot be clearer about this. I do not see untestable things as incompatible with science.
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  5. I'm quite confused by this. I don't understand how any of the above indicates that religion and science are not compatible. Is spirituality testable according to known human metrics? Not really, but that doesn't make it incompatible with science. We have absolutely no known ways to understand how the human brain works to any real, appreciable degree, but that doesn't make the human mind incompatible with science. It means that as of yet, we can't understand it, and that makes it a darling of the scientific world. I'm not sure how religion or spirituality are any different? We observe
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  6. I don't disagree with you at all on that front.
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  7. I have a pretty good theological library...but I haven't added anything significant to it for about a decade. Yeah, "slacker". That' me. Bottom line: I used to be current. Now I am not. So what's good that's new? And by "new" I mean within the last 5 years or so.
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  8. Perhaps science and religion just seem oppositional, because so many Christians refuse to accept the place of science. For instance - the world is a sphere, not flat; it's billions of years old, rather than 6,000 or so; humanity is hundreds of thousands of years old, not 10,000; and life evolves. These are "facts," in terms of science - our understanding of them will develop, but they are not unproved hypotheses. But one in six Americans believe the world is a flat disc (14 references in the OT), and among millennials that's one in three. A quarter still believe the sun circles the e
    1 point
  9. The separation of science and religion is a historical, political one, but has never been legitimate. Science isn't a system of beliefs, it is a method of gathering and examining information. Religion is basically the same thing, but a different method and sometimes different information, although sometimes very similar. Any good scientist who is honest with themselves knows that they deal in interpretations. I have found that people who believe science and religion to be oppositional have only a rudimentary knowledge of science or history or religion, or all three. Just
    1 point
  10. "Perhaps they are seeing something the media doesn't report? Perhaps free elections in the US are not as free as originally thought in schools or by past propaganda and many people are now realizing it?" Comments like this really do need some kind of evidence, rather than relying on hearsay and conspiracy theories. " i don't understand why Democrats are worried about a recount or challenges." I don't see how they are. The Georgia count, for instance, went through three recounts. Under a Republican official, Brad Rraffensberger, who'd voted for Trump and contributed financially
    1 point
  11. "I'm not sure the US is out of the woods yet, with the way Trump is behaving!" Looks certain today that he's going to go, after the Capitol riot/insurrection. But what he stands for, and he's given voice to, and constantly amplifies - the racism and fascism at the heart of what so many Americans actually think/believe, in their hearts - I think it will decades to undo that kind of damage. If it ever happens.
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  12. Just want to know more ..
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  13. I truly get this stuff is not easy to express. I express it as living the Kingdom rather than 'in the Kingdom or entering the Kingdom.' Plus I express it as the Kingdom is being established by the response of men and women to God (the embodiment Love). You make sense.
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  14. PaulS, I have read through a few of the posts on this thread and feel I get the gist of where this is going. I generally support your explanations on this topic. I have come from a prior fundamentalist view of the Bible and can be sympathetic with the positioning of others on this thread, however, I have discovered that spiritual freedom, for me, demands that I enter into an honest discussion with reality. For me, God no longer has to conform to dogma, even that which men have derived from a self-designated "Holy Book", and the Divine has been set free from the constricting box of dogmatic
    1 point
  15. Cuomo has done a great job and I love how strong and passionate he is. I agree: brilliant! I also love how he calls the trumpster on his bull.
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  16. Forgiveness is the only way to rid yourself of resentment. It does nothing for the other, but everything for the self.
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  17. Time to throw AJ into all this.
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  18. Actually he probably never heard of the above verses - he just wings it based on what is best for 'donald' and lets the chips and the people fall where they may.
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  19. Good one and if 'he' loses and refuses to leave, he'll be shown the door ..........
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  20. Hi everyone. I was born Catholic, and attended church most Sundays until I turned 18 and started university. That was more than 30 years ago, and in that time, I have not been anywhere near a church, or any other place of religious worship, save for the odd wedding, and increasingly now, the odd funeral. I do not consider myself a practicing Christian per se, but I am interested in the more progressive side of Christianity. I am a "fan" of Matthew Fox and Robin Meyers - each of these men take you to different places and have introduced me to different people. It’s still very early da
    1 point
  21. Hi, I am new here so I guess I should do the intro! Basically and briefly: grew up in Evangelical household, father was pastor. Rejected it all and went on a journey to find myself/Truth/God/Whatever - went through many things - Gurdjieff, Islam, magic and assorted other things. I learnt a lot and, believe it or not, grew a lot through it all but none of it brought me closer to God. I never felt I was lost or sinning or anything, just not closer. I was always opposed to literalist Christianity (but not Jesus) though I was never an atheist, I saw myself mostly as Muslim I suppose in an
    1 point
  22. Hello everyone, I am a thirty-something kindergarten teacher from Germany who has always struggled with faith and has always had a complicated relationship with her own faith. I have always been curious and open about Christianity, but ever since I was a teenager I have been bumping into walls. This has really stalled my growth as a person and even hurt it. For the longest time I thought something was wrong with me and my character and my beliefs. Everybody else seemed to have a completely opposite idea of what Christianity was, and we could only find common ground when it came to J
    1 point
  23. ...starting a new journey and the circumstances of COVID make some aspects of interaction now difficult, so I thought to try to develop my network to include some online resources to give external focus and connections. I subscribe to Liberal Theology more of the early 1900s to a large degree, with some modifications, and find the irony of how the dominant theology of the early 1900s is so relevant to our problems of today. Anyway, greetings... VR
    1 point
  24. Welcome to this group. It looks like it will be interesting to hear many of your ideas and insights. Welcome
    1 point
  25. I would personally like to progress toward a more inclusive behavior towards others, and would like for Christians in general to do the same. But I can only change myself, so there goes.
    1 point
  26. Here are three opinions: Warsaw (Warszawa) is the capital of Poland There must be life somewhere in this universe other than Earth God is Love The first is based on copious evidence. The second is based reasoned logic and the third, to me it far from clear what it based on. The second opinion while I can see the logic behind such arguments, I find them not necessarily convincing. While I can see arguments against the first opinion, I find to all intents and purposes we can consider this close to 'true'. Of course the third opinion is based on very little. So I can't help
    1 point
  27. I can't help thinking when people talk about god, they are somehow confounding the concept of god with the universe. I am not denying people's claims regarding the experience of god (or God). But we are definitely made up of stardust and in this sense we are connected to the universe. It would appear our mathematical descriptions of the fundamental forces suggest they extend to infinity. Quantum theories suggest that the probability of events happening are determined by the state of the universe. I think Carl Sagan's words We are a way for the cosmos to know itself … are quite telling (I
    1 point
  28. Seemingly the existence of God cannot be proven or disproved because it is not an item or a thing in the world or the universe. God is the very possibility (and sustaining) of all that is.
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  29. I myself don't think there is that much of a problem when someone criticizes one part or another of a religion. It helps if this is constructive criticism instead of just saying it's all dumb or is really just picking on others because they think differently or because the picker needs someone to pick on because they themselves are afraid of getting picked on. Constructive criticism often comes from those people who really care, either about society at large and or for individuals who are involved in ideas that could hurt them psychologically. Hell seems to be one of these ideas. I t
    1 point
  30. I agree with a lot of what you've said here. It's when we get into including ideas that are un-inclusive in order to be inclusive that one gets into a kind of mind bender or mental knot. I myself don't know quite how to deal with it at this point. Maybe I, or we, will figure things out better as we go along and study or investigate the situations and questions. Thanks
    1 point
  31. Asking questions would be politely asking for clarification or explication with the objective of gaining a deeper understanding. Calling someone’s religious beliefs nonsense is dismissive. So is being argumentative. Rom, this is a spiritual forum not a scientific one. We are not on a fact finding mission. We are trying to maintain a sense of wonder, inquisitiveness, and attune our perceptions to revelation and enlightenment.
    1 point
  32. No. People are welcome to hold cynical and bigoted opinions against Christianity but this is not the place for attacks on other people’s faith beliefs. There is a huge difference between sharing one’s spiritual path and cynically vandalizing the spiritual path of others.
    1 point
  33. I myself don't know. She is French Catholic, with a heritage in the Catholic tradition that goes back something like 1,500 years. She used to be a very close neighbor of mine, we lived in the same building. She herself was living at or below the poverty line, and sharing a one bedroom apartment with her daughter, who was working fulltime, and her daughters two teenage sons, (who ate, and needed to eat, a lot). Still she kept giving and giving and giving. It was unreal how much she'd give when she, and her own, actually had so little. Today, she is living in her own house on her own land,
    1 point
  34. Ehrman is also a good guy in person. Definitely a bit quirky, a bit of a nerd (which I consider a compliment) and even a bit shy (odd as that might be to say) with little jokes that sometimes fall flat accompanied by his own little laugh at them. He is a great teacher/presenter, takes pains to be understood and genuinely cares about those in need (everything from his blog goes to his charities). I agree that his work (and the works of others) has been enlightening and enhancing for many people.
    1 point
  35. God bless you, Piriripi. I admire your faith and I am glad to know you. I post on a phone so I rarely write long missives or cover more than a single point so feel free to follow up. The two different stories of Adam and Eve in Genesis are interesting to me for contemporary and non-historical reasons. The biggest is why did God create Adam? God has already created angels and other elohim, but he then creates an entirely different being out of physical clay. This baffles me, and it is the single most important question posed by the creation of mankind. Why are we here?
    1 point
  36. As others have similarly expressed, Progressive Christianity to me is a path that embraces pluralism and gets away from systematized, exclusive absolutes, and where intellectual honesty is much more likely to be valued. This is, of course, a risky endeavor, because it opens us to uncharted terrain. There is much potential for tenderness, love, and meaning to be creatively discovered. That word, 'creative', is essential. Creativity - in practice, social realization, philosophy, theology, metaphysics, art, etc., - I think can truly develop into a unique hallmark feature of PC, because of PC's in
    1 point
  37. Yes, I think this is an important, maybe the most important, feature of Progressive Christianity. George
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  38. To me, Progressive Christianity means applying the “new story” of science and anthropology to the myths and beliefs of traditional Christianity and thus opening the door to probe for a deeper meaning. It means looking beyond bible inerrancy and dualistic thinking to a more meaningful relationship with God who is always present and active in, with, and through all. Progressive Christianity, to me, means letting go of ideas of exclusivity, accepting that my faith is not the one and only truth. And, by learning of other faiths, enriching my own faith. Finally, it means being allowed to explore id
    1 point
  39. More than a few People here in PC, and encountered in other Christian discussions, will sincerely say they personally "Are Spiritually Minded, and Believe in God, But Are Not Religious." I say these People are false and mindless within their own claim to be that way. They think being "Religious" is bad. But, they are speaking in ignorance. Here is how we know they are. The Bible gives a clear definition of Pure Religion Before God. I will let you find it for yourself. Because, an honest Person who claims it is good to "Not Be Religious" should accept correction from The Bible i
    0 points
  40. Exactly So their education never gave them pause for thought? The ramifications of physics, chemistry and biology? Perhaps I am a little different? I am a product of my environment, even my secondary education specialized on the sciences, as did my tertiary education. Thereafter spending spend three and a half decades in a research facility. While I get this … what I don't get is the apparent avoidance of the myriad aspects of the real world. Heaven and hell is such a nonsense concept at least the literal one, why even wonder about/debate what the ancients meant. Always remem
    -1 points
  41. Bump … see post above especially for Joseph from wikipedia Rabbi Wine coined the word ignosticism. It is the view that a coherent definition of God must be presented before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed.
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  42. Well this was sort of my point in the a/ignostic thread. Of course it is only an opinion that the Nazis who self identified as Christian are not Christian in actual fact. But I hope you see the contradiction in your two positions you have stated. Who is the censor that limits definitions? And more for Joseph than you Elen, if I were to express the opinion that may Germans had succumbed to a nonsense belief that Arians are somehow a master race and better than say Slavs or Jews, would that be inappropriate? After all it is just an opinion.
    -1 points
  43. The circumstances on the ground makes no difference?
    -1 points
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