Pat Robertson

[BeachOfEden]

Pat Robertson's Evangelical Protestantsim=Protestant Jihad

 

Bob Allen, managing editor of EthicsDaily.com.

08-24-05

 

Religious leaders on Tuesday denounced religious broadcaster Pat Robertson for saying United States operatives should assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

Monday's "700 Club" broadcast on the Christian Broadcasting Network profiled the socialist president of the oil-rich Latin American nation, comparing him to Fidel Castro.

 

BeachOfEden: I think it should be called the 666 Club instead or Maybe "The Section 8 Club," What do you thinK?

 

Chavez has accused the United States of trying to assassinate him and predicted that if it happened Venezuela, the world's fifth largest oil producer, would stop exporting 1.3 million barrels a day to the U.S. and send them elsewhere.Robertson said Chavez has "has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he's going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent."

 

This is the excellent quote of the week!

 

"Robert Parham of the Baptist Center for Ethics said Robertson "illustrates what happens when fundamentalist Christians ignore the social teachings of Jesus and use their religious platforms to advance naked aggression against others—they sound like their ideological kinsmen within Islamic fundamentalism."

 

Bob Edgar of the National Council of Churches called Robertson's call to murder a foreign leader "appalling to the point of disbelief." "It defies logic that a clergyman could so casually dismiss thousands of years of Judeo-Christian law, including the commandment that we are not to kill," Edgar said. "It defies logic that this so-called evangelist is using his media power not to win people to faith but to encourage them to support the murder of a foreign leader." Edgar, a former six-term congressman, was one of 12 members of the House Select Committee on Assassinations from 1976 to 1979. Lynn said President Bush should "immediately disavow Robertson and his extremist rhetoric." Robertson ran for president in 1988 with the support of many leaders in the religious right. Jimmy Draper, a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention who now heads LifeWay Christian Resources, hosted a reception for then-candidate Robertson at the SBC annual meeting in 1987.

 

And this is a GREAT comment too!

 

"Regrettably, the Republican Party has validated Robertson’s legitimacy over so many years that he and other members of the religious right are seen as theological representatives of the White House," Parham said. That "diminishes the global perception of the goodness and common sense of the American people." After his failed presidential bid, Robertson started the Christian Coalition, a grassroots religious right organization that today claims 1.2 million members.

 

 

Pat Robertson History of Hateful ###### Remarks:

 

SEXISM, HATE TOWARDS GAYS, & PROMOTION OF A VENGFUL GOD CONCEPT

 

"Two days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Robertson agreed with Jerry Falwell’s statement blaming liberals, feminists, abortionist and gays for making America vulnerable by removing God from the public square."

 

ON SEPERATION OF CHURCH & STATE

 

“We have a court that has essentially stuck its finger in God’s eye and said we’re going to legislate you out of the schools,” Robertson said. “We’re going to take your commandments from off the courthouse steps in various states. We’re not going to let little children read the commandments of God. We’re not going to let the Bible be read, no prayer in our schools. We have insulted God at the highest levels of our government. And, then we say, ‘Why does this happen?’ Well, why it’s happening is that God Almighty is lifting his protection from us.”

 

EVEN BUSH IS NOT EXTREME ENOUGH FOR ROBERTSON!?!

 

In 2003 he said someone should use a nuclear device to blow up the U.S. State Department. He once urged supporters to pray that God would move three justices on the Supreme Court to retire. He accused the Bush administration of removing a Christian president in Liberia and replacing him with Islamic insurgents. This spring he said "activist" judges are a greater threat to America than terrorists.

 

HATE TOWARDS GAYS..AGAIN

 

He described homosexuals as "self-absorbed narcissists who are willing to destroy any institution so long as they can have an affirmation of their lifestyle,"-...

 

PAT CAN'T SEE HE IS THE EVANGELICAL PROTESTANT VERSION OF JIHAD!

 

"Islam teaches violence "at its core." Look who's talking!

 

ROBERTSON- A SPOKEMAN FOR EVANGELICAL PROTESTANTS?

 

Prescott, executive director of Mainstream Oklahoma Baptists, said Robertson "and other extremists have hijacked our faith and they are destroying the credibility of the gospel in the eyes of the world."

 

"There ought to be some way to distinguish Christians who follow the teachings of Jesus from those who wear the label while ignoring the teachings of Christ and defaming the name of Jesus--particularly when they literally advocate violence on a broadcast beamed around the world," Prescott said.

 

BeachOfEden: There IS. We call ourselves Progressive Christians.

 

Venezuela's vice president on Tuesday accused Robertson of making "terrorist statements" and suggested how Washington responds to Robertson's comments would put its anti-terrorism policy to the test.

[sterrettc]

I don't think that assassination is ever a good idea. I don't think that it is morally right and I think that it is not likely to produce the results that are desired.

 

But that aside. Even if assassination was called for, I think that it is really stupid to publicly say that we should assassinate a foreign head of state. Thank God we didn't elect someone that stupid to be president. Or did we?

[flowperson]

I dont' remember where the most memorable quote on this phenomenon came from, maybe the movie Dumb and Dumber..."stupid is as stupid does". Someone out there will remember it if I'm wrong though. On second thought we should make that The Right Wing Network Conservative Protestant Jihad. Lots of words, but more accurate. TRWNCPJ!

[FredP]

I dont' remember where the most memorable quote on this phenomenon came from, maybe the movie Dumb and Dumber..."stupid is as stupid does".

That would be Forrest. Forrest Gump.

[des]

I noticed that several evangelical groups said very strongly that his views were not their's, to my knowledge the Religious Right hasn't said anything.

 

--des

[flowperson]

THANKS FRED,

I knew someone would remember. That was the fatherless guy from the south who's mother slept with a guy to stay in their house, who fell in love with an abused and irresponsible hippie he was childhood friends with, who overcame his lower body difficulties through his force of will, became a sports hero, became a war hero, became a peace movement hero, became a national and international sports hero (again), became a very wealthy businessman, and who married and fathered a son with the abused and irresponsible hippie lady who then died.

It all almost seems like some sort of 20th century biblical parable to me. At first I thought it might have been Gomer Pyle, the Marine hero of the late sixties. But that was too far back. I DON"T like this getting old stuff!

[sterrettc]

Probably some of you have heard this, but I thought it was worth repeating. I don't know the origin of it.

 

It was reported in one newspaper that Pat Roberson, in addition to saying that Hugo Chavez should be killed, has called for the coveting of Chavez's house, wife, ox, donkey, and his man- and maid-servants. It seams likely, also, that Roberton has born false witness against Chavez. That leaves 7 out of 10. In many contexts 70% is a C-, which is a passing grade, if barely.

[flowperson]

Does anyone remember the good-looking scottish lady that Rev. Robertson had on as a co-host of the 700 Club in the late 80"s? I used to tune him in once in a while along with listening to Rush from time to time just to keep up with what the other side was talking about. I stopped that because it was always the same boring and banal stuff. Anyway, one day the good-looking scottish lady sidekick on the Rev. Robertson's 700 Club just disappeared without explanation.

Anyone know anything, or am I reaching too far back into the black hole of history?

[DCJ]

Robertson has long since been a has-been of the Republican party and evangelicalism, and I don't know one clear-thinking Christian who thinks highly of him.

[October's Autumn]

Does anyone remember the good-looking scottish lady that Rev. Robertson had on as a co-host of the 700 Club in the late 80"s? I used to tune him in once in a while along with listening to Rush from time to time just to keep up with what the other side was talking about. I stopped that because it was always the same boring and banal stuff. Anyway, one day the good-looking scottish lady sidekick on the Rev. Robertson's 700 Club just disappeared without explanation.

Anyone know anything, or am I reaching too far back into the black hole of history?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

SHeena Easton! No, but it is close to that, I always confused the two! I can't remember her name so I can't do a search.

[FonsVitae]

Robertson has long since been a has-been of the Republican party and evangelicalism, and I don't know one clear-thinking Christian who thinks highly of him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The problem is too many Christians are not clear thinking. Look how many voted for Bush (not that "Send more troops" Kerry would have been better).

[flowperson]

Does anyone remember the good-looking scottish lady that Rev. Robertson had on as a co-host of the 700 Club in the late 80"s? I used to tune him in once in a while along with listening to Rush from time to time just to keep up with what the other side was talking about. I stopped that because it was always the same boring and banal stuff. Anyway, one day the good-looking scottish lady sidekick on the Rev. Robertson's 700 Club just disappeared without explanation.

Anyone know anything, or am I reaching too far back into the black hole of history?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

SHeena Easton! No, but it is close to that, I always confused the two! I can't remember her name so I can't do a search.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sheena was Queen of the jungle wasn't she? And Sheena Easton plays lounge acts in Vegas once in a while.

Isn't it maddening? I can see her in my mind's eye and can almost hear her give her rundown on current 700 Club developments before the Patster came on air to wow us with his unbelievable piety. Thanks for trying Autumn. C'mon someone and help these two memory challenged progressives!

[October's Autumn]

Isn't it maddening? I can see her in my mind's eye and can almost hear her give her rundown on current 700 Club developments before the Patster came on air to wow us with his unbelievable piety. Thanks for trying Autumn. C'mon someone and help these two memory challenged progressives! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes! I have a terrible time remembering names, anyhow. The irony is I used to love her music and actually owned a tape! (Pre-CDs).

[DavidD]

I don't remember the name of Pat's previous co-host, but the story about her was that she became deeply depressed and had to be replaced. I forget where I learned that, but it was memorable because of the contrast between her illness and the "God fixes everything" mentality of the show.

 

I know at least one evangelical who became deeply depressed after the Y2K scare turned out to be nothing, making him feel discouraged about all these men he trusted who said it would be a big deal. That depression went on and on, unhelped by medicine, bad enough for him not to leave the house for months. His wife finally had him committed, and he came back with electro-shock therapy. His faith was the same afterward as before. It is possible to say that all such things are God's will, but I would wonder if there is another message in becoming so ill and not getting better but for a physical intervention.

[DavidD]

After 4 hours of not thinking about it, her name suddenly came to me. It's Sheila Walsh. There are a lot of places on the internet about her.

 

Memory is such a strange thing.

[flowperson]

After 4 hours of not thinking about it, her name suddenly came to me. It's Sheila Walsh. There are a lot of places on the internet about her.

 

Memory is such a strange thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

TaaDaa!!! I knew someone would remember. Yes, the lovely Scottish Sheila. Thank you David for restoring my faith in memory, any strange kind.

 

flow....

[October's Autumn]

After 4 hours of not thinking about it, her name suddenly came to me. It's Sheila Walsh. There are a lot of places on the internet about her.

 

Memory is such a strange thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

YEah! Thanks! I've gone weeks without thinking about it and nothing Yes, Walsh...

[October's Autumn]

She has her own website.

 

http://www.sheilawalsh.com/

[October's Autumn]

Here is the latest from him!

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051110/ts_nm/...HBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

 

Should we even bother with the flaws in his reasoning?

[FredP]

How he can continue to gleefully chortle in the face of disaster is beyond any concept of humanity I can muster up.

 

That being said, I don't necessarily have a problem with introducing the ID concept -- as an abstract concept, not as a particular religious view, which can be done -- into scientific debate and/or education. Let's face it, it's already there, what's the point of denying the elephant in the living room? If it really is so faulty, let it fall on its own. Supression works both ways -- kids are going to start wondering what's so interesting about this view that their school needs to censor it. Debate it in the light of day.

 

I think Neodarwinism and ID are both wrong anyway, big surprise.

[flowperson]

I knew someone would put this on when I saw it. Good work autumn!

 

Let's just hope and pray that a twister or flood or something doesn't hit Dover, or we all may well be in the soup with the fundies dancing around us in a circle in the firelight.

 

By the way Fred, the Pope just declared in an audience with the Hierarchy of the Austrian church looking on that, " ...the universe is an intelligent project...". Well, I can't really disagree with that since there are, extending to as a large scale and as small a scale as we can see, lots and lots of long-term, self-organizing, ordered systems in it.

 

But chaos is also a predominant feature, unless you consider and extend Joseph Schumpeter's view of chaos in systems of capitalism to be "creative destruction". Schumpeter was, I believe, a Nobel laureate in Econonmics from the U. of Chicago in the 40's or 50's.

 

flow....

Edited November 11, 2005 by flowperson

[FredP]

By the way Fred, the Pope just declared in an audience with the Hierarchy of the Austrian church looking on that, " ...the universe is an intelligent project...". Well, I can't really disagree with that since there are, extending to as a large scale and as small a scale as we can see, lots and lots of long-term, self-organizing, ordered systems in it.

Yes, there is much self-organization and intelligence in the cosmos. ID says everything that exists was consciously designed by an infinite intelligence, and so even "apparent" mistakes are there for a reason... But it makes much more sense to me -- as I've been arguing elsewhere -- to view the false starts, dead ends, and just plain outright mistakes as the result of divine self-limitation, and of the freedom to let the cosmos come into existence on its own.

[October's Autumn]

Yes, there is much self-organization and intelligence in the cosmos.  ID says everything that exists was consciously designed by an infinite intelligence, and so even "apparent" mistakes are there for a reason... 

 

That is typical! Reminds me of: the apparent contradictions in the bible aren't really contradictions, but...

 

 

But it makes much more sense to me -- as I've been arguing elsewhere -- to view the false starts, dead ends, and just plain outright mistakes as the result of divine self-limitation, and of the freedom to let the cosmos come into existence on its own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like your explanation much better. Certainly doesn't require me to put my brain on hold

 

I wouldn't have a problem with the idea of God guiding or allowing or using Evolution as a means of creation (what I"d hoped ID was) but they are still arguing a 5-10 thousand year old earth.

 

Although I certainly would not allow that to be taught in a public school classroom. That is a matter of personal religious belief, certainly not science!

[FredP]

Yes, there is much self-organization and intelligence in the cosmos.  ID says everything that exists was consciously designed by an infinite intelligence, and so even "apparent" mistakes are there for a reason... 

 

That is typical! Reminds me of: the apparent contradictions in the bible aren't really contradictions, but...

Yeah, something like that.

 

Although I certainly would not allow that to be taught in a public school classroom.  That is a matter of personal religious belief, certainly not science!

Well, if we're talking about the literal belief in some piece of religious literature as scientific history, then yes, for purposes of education, that is a matter of personal religious belief. But if we're talking about the concepts of design and purpose, on some level, potentially being part of the mechanism of nature, then you can't get much more public than that. If it were true, and we censored it for political reasons, we'd be committing intellectual suicide. What you're not allowed to say in this debate is that the claim that there is no meaning or purpose in the mechanisms of nature, as an axiom, is just as much a statement of faith as a belief in a mechanism of intelligent design. If science can't prove the existence of God, then by the law of symmetry, it can't deny it either.

 

The unfortuntate problem, as far as I can see, is that both sides of the debate shout their picture of God (or lack thereof) and the universe so loudly, that the public begins to think Fundamentalism and Naturalism are the only two choices.

[AletheiaRivers]

The unfortuntate problem, as far as I can see, is that both sides of the debate shout their picture of God (or lack thereof) and the universe so loudly, that the public begins to think Fundamentalism and Naturalism are the only two choices.

 

A while ago an article came out in Discover magazine about ID and how someone had used a computer model to finally prove that no creator was needed to create life. A guy I worked with said he loved the article and hoped that it would put an end to the debate for good.

 

I made a comment about how I believe there is evidence of intelligence in the design of the universe and he immediately went off on "YOU believe in 'Intelligent Design'?" I was left trying to say "No, no, no ... NOT the way the fundamentalists explain it. Not like what's happening in Kansas..." He wouldn't hear anything past my comment. In his mind there ARE only two choices.

 

Argh! It makes me so grumpy!

Edited November 14, 2005 by AletheiaRivers